tonytx05 said:

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Already asked and answered several times; chloroquine can have severe side-effects which doesn't make it a cure-all for every case that comes up.

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By all means. Die or risk the side effects.

Most current update

https://www.facebook.com/1998386763777604/posts/2644252519191022/?sfnsn=mo

gigemJTH12 said:

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SIAP, doc did you see this?

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Yes this looks very promising for severe and critical patients.

Bobcat-Ag said:

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88planoAg said:

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I just saw a 'what not to take' list that included elderberry. First and only mention I've seen. Any idea where that came from?

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I would like to know as well.

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We do not know anything about it at this time. They are promoting it will strengthen your immune system but there is no evidence of that at this time. While I doubt it will hurt you, this one is pretty much use at your own risk.

Exsurge Domine said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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SIAP, doc did you see this?

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https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Hydroxychloroquine_final_DOI_IJAA.pdf

This is it


[url=https://ibb.co/XS6NPVD][/url]

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This is very interesting in that by adding Zithromax to Hydroxychloroquine the response improved even more. I am sure we will be seeing a lot of this combination in hospitalized patients. Side effects are not as relevant if you good potentially die. But would not recommend in mild cases as most will recover on their own with no residual effects.

gigemJTH12 said:

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If this is true...how quickly can it be over? How much of that stuff do we have?

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We should have plenty of this for use in serious or critical disease. I would expect that we are actively producing more of both these now.

Exsurge Domine said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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If this is true...how quickly can it be over? How much of that stuff do we have?

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It's a peer reviewed paper showing 100% efficacy in 40 patients. Seems like a big deal. I don't know about HCQ but I think azithromyacin is just a z-pack which is pretty common. I think HCQ is plaquenil which is common as well

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That is correct! Both are common and we should have plenty of them if it continues to prove to be effective. Don't over react, as this is a small sample size and it doesn't appear that most were very sick. (Six patients were asymptomatic, 22 had upper respiratory tract infection symptoms and eight had lower respiratory infections.)

Counterpoint said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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tonytx05 said:

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Already asked and answered several times; chloroquine can have severe side-effects which doesn't make it a cure-all for every case that comes up.

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Also, what are the side effects?

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Extremely weird nightmares is one I haven't seen listed on here. I've taken it for malaria (prevention), and the nightmares were INTENSE. Probably better than Corona though. I wouldn't take it again for malaria prevention, but I would for COVID.

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That and suicidal ideation are both pretty well documented.

3rd Generation Ag said:

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One more queston. We know the mortality rate for the elderly is high. However do some of us get it and just have the mild version seen in younger people. Does every oldster wind up oin the hospital seriously ill even if they survive?

In other words what is the percentage that don't require intentive care and oxygen?

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Yes not all elderly are going to seriously ill. Many will have only mild symptoms. The more risk factors you have and the older you are the more likely you are to have severe symptoms.

maroonbeansnrice said:

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Doc, this is a pharmacology question, and I'm guessing the answer would be uncertain given the unknowns at this point:

If CQ/HCQ turns out to be helpful, is there a different active ingredient/mechanism in the currently preferred anti-malarial Malarone (Atavaquone-Proguanil)? Just curious. As I'm sure you are aware, one of the reasons it is now the go-to anti-malarial is the lack of side effects.

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Unknown for sure. A biochemist might be better to answer as they know more about the mechanism of action than I do.

Exsurge Domine said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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If this is true...how quickly can it be over? How much of that stuff do we have?

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It's a peer reviewed paper showing 100% efficacy in 40 patients. Seems like a big deal. I don't know about HCQ but I think azithromyacin is just a z-pack which is pretty common. I think HCQ is plaquenil which is common as well

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Unfortunately we cannot make any inferences based on this study given that it was non-randomized and had such low numbers. Azithromycin was added if the treating physician thought necessary; however, this would imply that there was a functional difference in clinical presentation in patients that received azithromycin. This possibly means that patients that received it were further along in their disease course which could also explain why they had quicker clearance of viral load. It could also mean that those that were more symptomatic had a greater immune response which might have lead to quicker viral load clearance, as well. It is impossible to tell without randomization.

While HCQ therapy is promising, it should not be promoted as a cure until efficacy can be determined. I would hate for all my SLE and RA patients to be out of their clinically proven medication due to a shortage based on in vitro studies and unpublished, non-randomized trials.

Aggiebrewer said:

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I appreciate this thread Doc

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Your welcome

Dr. Not Yet Dr. Ag said:

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Exsurge Domine said:

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gigemJTH12 said:

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If this is true...how quickly can it be over? How much of that stuff do we have?

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It's a peer reviewed paper showing 100% efficacy in 40 patients. Seems like a big deal. I don't know about HCQ but I think azithromyacin is just a z-pack which is pretty common. I think HCQ is plaquenil which is common as well

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Unfortunately we cannot make any inferences based on this study given that it was non-randomized and had such low numbers. Azithromycin was added if the treating physician thought necessary; however, this would imply that there was a functional difference in clinical presentation in patients that received azithromycin. This possibly means that patients that received it were further along in their disease course which could also explain why they had quicker clearance of viral load. It could also mean that those that were more symptomatic had a greater immune response which might have lead to quicker viral load clearance, as well. It is impossible to tell without randomization.

While HCQ therapy is promising, it should not be promoted as a cure until efficacy can be determined. I would hate for all my SLE and RA patients to be out of their clinically proven medication due to a shortage based on in vitro studies and unpublished, non-randomized trials.

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Well said this is exactly the case!!! I understand most of the public is not well versed in interpreting medical information and studies can be very misleading. But it will take much larger sample sizes with a randomized sample before we can make any conclusions. I also have RA and SLE patients that need these medications to function on a daily basis.

OldArmy71 said:

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I read the study.

Where did the number 40 come from?

The study says that 20 were treated with these drugs. Am I misreading something?

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It was technically 42 patients 16 were controls, 26 were in the treatment group. However, 6 in treatment group dropped out or were lost to follow up. So really only 36 completed the trial and 20 finished in the treatment group that is why you see the number 20.

As we mentioned above while this is promising data it is nowhere near conclusive.