I would be willing to say that 95% or more pitchers in D1 baseball were not relievers in high school.

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Byron, All you need is for your friday night starter to keep you in the game thru the 6th inning. For some reason against Tech, Meyer, Nicholson and Rampy couldn't do that. Corgan and Chambless will get better as the season progresses.

Turner and Ray have already been given starts with mixed results. I don't think you can count on them to give you a fairly solid outing time in and time out. Meyer tailed off at the end of last season, and wasn't nearly as effective as he was at the beginning of the year. I am not sure that either Meyer doesn't have the stuff/control that he once had or that Big 12 hitters are starting to figure him out. The Fri. Tech game looked more like batting practice than a ballgame.


If we are going to contend we are going to have to win 2 of 3 on the road against OU, Missouri, and Kansas State, in order to position ourselves for the grand finale of playing Tx & BU at the end of the season. We can't afford to get run ruled in the first game of any of these series and we can't afford not to have our rotation set going into these Big 12 series in April & May.

And we have to get more than 3 innings out of Chambless on a weekend. He is too good not to be put in a position to give us 6 or 7 innings as a starter.

Yes AgRyan, but what is more important is the percentage of those pitchers that adapt to being effective relief pitchers during their college careers. Not that many seem to make the transition and when you have a guy like Chambless, why bother to try and make him into one. Give him the ball and let him pitch out of the gate. Did we start Granger out as a relief pitcher?

if your starter only gets you through 6 innings on Friday that means that you will need 3 innings from your bullpen Friday thus reducing the number of arms you have on Sat and Sunday (the day we usually see the most bullpen action).

I really like Corgan but in his three starts even he has yet to even reach your goal of 6 innings.

It would seem as if there is something about Meyer that you don't particularly like....regardless he has had a total of 4.1 bad innings on the season (the tech start plus the first inning v. UCLA). I don't think that I'm the only one here who thinks that you're jumping the gun on Meyer and putting two very inexperienced freshmen into two VERY important roles when we have had one bad game on the mound.

I don't know about Granger's initial role....I was still in 4th grade at the time....maybe twk or sixiron or luke can answer that one

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[This message has been edited by AgRyan04 (edited 3/21/2005 4:20p).]

You've got to be kidding? You just want six innings out of your Friday starter? Not me. Going up against the other teams ace, I want my best guy out there and I want him to at least get me 7.

Granger didn't need to close his freshman year--we had a guy named Tres Witte (a lot like Whelan in that he was a converted fielder) who did a pretty good job. I don't really think the comparison to Granger is particularly valid.

Our Starters against Tech

Friday:

Meyer, Jason........ 3.1 IP

Saturday:

Marlatt, Kyle....... 5.0 IP

Sunday:

Corgan, Chance...... 5.0 IP


Friday Relief:
Nicholson, Kyle..... 1.2 IP - 2 - 3 - 3 - 2 - 1 - 6 -10
Rampy, Blake........ 3.0 IP - 6 - 3 - 3 - 0 - 2 - 13 -14

Sat Relief:
Chambless, Jordan... 3.0 IP - 2 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 2 - 10 -12

Sunday Relief:
Whelan, Kevin....... 0.2 IP - 1 - 1 - 1 - 2 - 0 - 3 -5
Chambless, Jordan... 1.0 IP - 2 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 0 - 5 - 8
Turner, Clayton..... 2.1 IP - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 3 - 6 - 7


None of our starters got 6 innings much less 7 innings against Tech.

BTW,

Games Started for A&M this year:

1. Meyer 6
2. Turner 4
3. Ray 4
4. Marlatt 3
5. Corgan 3
6. Cline 2
7. Jones 1
8. Creps 1
9. Chambless 0


Games started for Baylor this year:

1. T. Taylor 6
2. M. McCormick 6
3. VanAllen 6
4. Walker 4


Looks like a consistent rotation is starting to pay dividends for the Bears.

You ask for consistency and then ask for a major change in the rotation and Chambless to start, which is it?

Chambless to start and develope some consistency. And to get him more than 3 innings of work during conference series. We would be developing some consistency for the remainder of the year and into next year.

Our starting pitching hasn't always gotten us into the 7th inning anyway.


TENN Meyer, Jason........ 7.0 5 1 1 3 3 24 27
RICE Turner, Clayton..... 5.1 7 2 2 1 1 22 23
UH Ray, Robert......... 4.1 8 5 5 0 2 20 21
SHSU Cline, Jon Michael.. 5.2 2 0 0 4 4 15 20
JACKSONVILLE Meyer, Jason........ 6.1 4 1 1 1 5 22 24
SOUTH ALABAMA Turner, Clayton..... 7.1 6 2 2 0 4 25 27
Wake Forest Ray, Robert......... 5.0 3 2 2 1 7 18 19
UTSA Marlatt, Kyle....... 5.0 2 1 1 2 2 17 20
Washington Meyer, Jason........ 6.0 2 1 1 3 9 20 26
San Diego# Turner, Clayton..... 4.0 6 2 2 1 1 17 19
Washington# Ray, Robert......... 6.0 3 1 1 1 8 20 21
Evansville# Marlatt, Kyle....... 7.0 2 0 0 1 4 22 24
Evansville# Jones, Chris........ 3.0 3 1 1 3 3 10 14
USC Meyer, Jason........ 8.0 5 1 0 4 4 26 30
Notre Dame Ray, Robert......... 2.1 5 3 3 1 3 12 14
Texas State Corgan, Chance...... 5.0 1 0 0 1 2 16 17
UTA Cline, Jon Michael.. 3.2 4 4 4 3 2 13 18
UCLA Meyer, Jason........ 5.0 2 4 4 4 4 16 21
UCLA Corgan, Chance...... 4.0 5 2 2 2 6 18 20
UCLA Turner, Clayton..... 3.2 6 2 2 1 4 18 19
Texas State Creps, Austin....... 6.0 1 1 1 0 2 19 19
Texas Tech Meyer, Jason........ 3.1 5 7 7 4 3 12 17
Texas Tech Marlatt, Kyle....... 5.0 5 1 1 3 0 16 19
Texas Tech Corgan, Chance...... 5.0 5 2 2 2 1 20 22

I don't think that anyone is expecting all three of our weekend starters to go 7 innings. The reason we want our friday guy to go deep is because it is rare to have 3 starters who can go 7 innings so you need the more bullpen help for Sat and Sun

Showing the list of everyone who has started is also a bit skewed because of the amount of tournaments we've played in. You also don't expect to see the same Tuesday night starter week in and week out. The only 2 players left from our 2003 season are Donaldson & Ray, so you can see that we have a VERY young pitching staff ('new' might be a better word) and guys are still fighting for their spots.....which is expected out of a bunch of sophomores and freshmen and a couple of transfers. We have had 5 different guys start weekend games.

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Here are Meyers outtings:


Innings/H/R/ER/BB/SO/AB/BF/OPPONENT
7.0 5 1 1 3 3 24 27 Tennessee**
6.1 4 1 1 1 5 22 24 Jacksonville*
6.0 2 1 1 3 9 20 26 Washington**
8.0 5 1 0 4 4 26 30 USC*
5.0 2 4 4 4 4 16 21 UCLA**
3.1 5 7 7 4 3 12 17 Tech

*=left game with 2 or more run lead
**=left game with 5+ run lead

Ok, other than tech the only game we needed meyer to last long in was the game against the trojans and he went 8 strong innings. Corgan or Chambless either one would have required relief in that situation. Please drop the whole Meyer to Sunday crap, its the dumbest thing Ive read on this board.

Chambless or Corgan will most likely be our Sunday starter, but I doubt both are ever together in the rotation this season. Next season however I expect the rotation to be Chambless/Meyer/Corgan and it should be one of the best in the big 12.

Meyer needs to come up HUGE against OU! No more tech fiascos!

[The opinions expressed by this poster are not necessarily those of Texags.com Staff]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 3/22/2005 8:46a).]

Sorry

[This message has been edited by Rocks For Brains (edited 3/22/2005 12:18p).]

just a guess, but i assume rocks said "everyone on here knows meyer 100% the friday starter unless he has 3 more starts like he had against tech, so artimus pipe down"

[It was a little more pithy than that--Texags.com Staff]

[This message has been edited by TexAgs staff (edited 3/22/2005 8:57a).]

Pipe down? What is anyone worried about? This is a discussion board. Sorry to bring facts into the argument. Both Turner and Ray have had not so great outings and have been relegated to relief status. In fact Ray did not even see the mound against Tech. So as long as we are still shuffling the rotation, I was just making a case for Corgan / Chambless.

The reason for my argument is two fold; One is to get Chambless more than three of work during a weekend series, and Two, is to win more than 1 game in a three game away series. Our best chance to do that is pitch Meyer on Sunday. Or better yet throw Meyer on Sat and Chambless on Sunday, if that doesn't piss everybody off. Just start Chambless! We really need to sweep OU this weekend, but we have two problems, one is hitting and the other is whether Meyer is going to come through for us on Fri. night!

That is all!



[This message has been edited by Artimus Gordon (edited 3/22/2005 9:22a).]

starting corgan and chambless saturday and sunday is not a bad idea. your moving of meyer to sunday is WAY premature. thats why i said "pipe down"

"Whether Meyer will come through for us on Friday night" is not a problem. While I do think Chambless would make a great Friday night starter down the road, we have our man. You are really making a worthless point about moving Meyer away from Friday, it's simply not going to happen.

As far as starting Chambless goes, I'm sure he'll be out there when his time is ready. With that said though, who else can be a closer for us? Are you comfortable no longer having a closer? Whelan has not demonstrated that he can be a reliable closer. While I agree that Chambless would make a great starter, I honestly believe we can win more games if he is the closer. You have to remember how bad our offense can be, a good closer is going to be essential.

exp hit the nail on the head. A great closer is so important in baseball- at any level. In Meyer we have 1 great starter. Among the other 3-4 guys, I would go out on a limb and say that we can find 2 good starters. With a rotation like that, an average bullpen and a great closer, combined with our solid defense, will win us a lot of games.

In a weekend series in order to be a great closer you would need to be effective on two consecutive days. Chambless closed out the Sat game which we lost, but the sunday game where we were ahead he wasn't nearly as effective. Can he give us several effective innings on consecutive days? Effective closers would be the French kid that transferred from Texas a few years back or the Kent kid from Midland before him. These guys could rebound on short notice and still be effective.

Also we need to be "ahead" before you get any benefit from a dominate closer.

I have no doubt that Chambless would excel as a closer in multiple games/weekend if he threw the now-a-days normal 1 inning....but trying to bounce back after three innings is a different story and I think that might have been part of why we saw some non-Chambless stuff out of him on Sunday (others might reason that it could have simply been that for the first time of the season he had a bad outing). We certainly don't know after one such incedent....just like with Meyer.

Also I don't see a big problem using your best bullpen guy in a situation where you're down by 1 run and you want to hold'em there to attempt a comeback...but this is a different arguement for a different day....

It was mentioned in another thread that Ray might have some soreness in his elbow....and Turner has yet to give up more than 2 runs in any appearance on the season

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[This message has been edited by AgRyan04 (edited 3/22/2005 10:47a).]

....but trying to bounce back after three innings is a different story and I think that might have been part of why we saw some non-Chambless stuff out of him on Sunday (others might reason that it could have simply been that for the first time of the season he had a bad outing)


That is something to watch and hopefully for the coaches to consider when using chambless in relief. Hopefully they will committ to him being an either Sat or Sun starter. I would rather have 6 - 7 solid innings out of him per weekend as a starter than be able to use him only for 3 innings in a loss.

It will be something to watch over the remaining course of the season to see how this plays out.

Turner may well be the one that comes in as the closer if he can rebound after a relief stint the day before.

thru 7 meyer gave up 3 hits and 0 runs. i believe after 7 1/3 he gave up 1 run and 4 hits? regardless, he was a stud. i doubt anyone can make an argument that meyer should lose his friday spot anymore, eh artimus?

with chambless present,..we would have sailed to victory,..

Would have been nice to have him, however, there may be a silver lining in that limiting Chambless's outings at this point in the season may leave him in better shape down the stretch run. We are not short on pitching, so we ought to be able to work around the scheduling problem until Chambless can go back to baseball full time.

i agree 711...but that wasnt an option. had we started corgan today like artimus seems to think we should do then we would have lost. corgan faced 2 batters and gave up 2 baserunners...

im not hating on corgan, he just isnt a friday starter in the big 12 or any major conference for that matter

twk....I couldn't agree with you more. I actually just this afternoon took went through all the box scores and compiled a gamelog for Beerer's pitching. It's interesting to just look at the numbers.

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i understand that the game is over, but i still would have gone with ray instead of corgan. i just think that you put a veteran out there in that situation.

remember last year,..meyer was cruising at okla st. and got into trouble late, just like tonight. and MJ brought in rampy to close it out, and he couldnt handle the pressure. that is the same thing that happened tonight, minus the Mav mistake.

i hope he learned a lesson from tonights situation, because he certainly didnt take notes from last years fumble.

That's a awful big minus, really to the point of making your comparison appels and oranges. I'm not saying Corgan was the right choice out of the pen (he may be better starting) but why would you go with Ray? How about Turner (who ended up doing the job). Hey, I was as high on Robert's potential as anyone, but I'm not sure I want to see him in a money situation until I know that he is healthy.

im just saying i would rather have an upper classman than a true freshman in a pressure situtation like that

first of all, last year we simply didn't have any veterans. The only returning lettermen we had were Moore, Donaldson, & Ray.

Going into the OSU series last year Ray had a 6.59 ERA in 28.2 innings, Moore had a 4.82 ERA in 37.1 innings, and Donaldson had 4.30 ERA in 14.2 innings. You cannot pass up Rampy simply because he wasn't a veteran....At that point in the season he had given up a total of FOUR hits in 16.1 innings with a 0.00 ERA.

Same thing tonight. Corgan came in with a 1.99 ERA in 22.2 IP while Ray is sitting at 5.30 in 18.2 IP, Whelan is at 6.35 in 11.1 IP.

Being a veteran doesn't necessarily mean that they're going to be better....that is why Chambless is our main closer and Whelan is not.

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ryan,...i certainly agree that chambless is the closer,..but since he was not an option,..our second choice should have been ray, instead of corgan,

I suppose we just don't think the same way. I'd rather have my better pitcher with less experience. Agree to disagree?

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Meyer can pitch just as well on saturday in the second game as he did in the first 7 tonight. We damned near lost the game if it had not been for some late inning hitting heroics that this team is not necessarily known for. That would have been catastrophic to lose with Meyer on the Mound to OU in the first game.

I would say you still start Corgan on Friday night follow him up with Turner to finish/close. Go with Meyer in the second/saturday game against their number 2 pitcher and hopefully he can get a complete game win. Then bring in Chambliss to start the finale of the series.

Folks we don't have all that much dependable pitching, that is why you have to get more than three innings out of Chambliss.

I don't think that Meyer is as good this year as he was last.

Starting your number 1 on saturday is basically saying you don't want to/can't hang with the other team. If you're really of the opinoin that this tem can't compete with the rest of the Big12 based on one bad weekend in Lubbock, then you know less about baseball than anyone who's posted on here in a while.

artimus-

wow, i dont know where to begin with you. terrible teams are the ones who start their #1 on saturday or sunday to try and steal 1 win and avoid a sweep. if you want to win 2 of 3 or go for a sweep (like we want to do against a bad OU team) then you start #1 friday, #2 saturday, and #3 Sunday. at this point Meyer is the only pitcher who has proven he can pitch 7+ innings and so thats why he is and will remain our Friday starter. i gauruntee the coaches have not even considered moving Meyer from that role, and to think its a plausible choice is ignorance.