Complete Idiot said:

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My jubilance and expectations relating to the Buzz Williams hire were probably at the upper end of the Ag scale.

To compare that to where my head is at now - it's mystifying and concerning. I just don't get how this is happening coupled with the end of a bad year 2 on the court.

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User name checks out?

Too many connected moving parts today. This will be clearer in the next few days.

I was hoping this transfer wasn't going to happen. .

Mikesyracuse1

bobinator said:

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You can still only transfer once without the penalty. So it's not like every year everyone is a transfer risk.

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Twice without penalty if you complete your degree and have eligibility left. But I think the grad transfer rule is brilliant if your institution's mission is to graduate those who matriculate.

As for the transfer rule moving forward. I think some of you underestimate the human emotion piece to it all, even from a teenage boy. Kids don't forget that Calipari didn't recruit them in HS, they don't forget that no one from a blue blood was there to watch them on the aau circuit.

Sure, some kids will "upgrade" and maybe look past not being recruited before. But the idea that any and all players are going to be constantly looking elsewhere is ridiculous. I think HS recruiting is still going to be the best way for most programs to recruit, as there is simply more time to build and cultivate relationships with kids that for the majority, won't forget that.

The point is there's always going to be something. So you better be good at a number of things, or over-coming obstacles.

"Well it was his first year, he needs his guys"
"Well COVID made it weird for everyone"
"Well his teams need time to build".

I have no doubts that if Buzz has everything going exactly the way he wants them to that he will be successful.

Kennedy made two Sweet 16's. Thriving when things go your way isn't a monumental task.

I mean, like anything we're just going to have to "wait and see" and "trust his resume"... But he's a "culture" coach that will head into Year 3 needing to develop a new culture.

My point is that not all of those somethings are created equal, so just blanketing them all as "excuses" is ridiculous.

There goes another transfer. Hope we can replace quickly via the transfer portal. I want wins now.

Texas A&M said:

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bobinator said:

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He's still not right, but even if he was right, the no-sit transfer rule passing was inevitable. It's like being upset that the tide is coming in.

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We'll agree to disagree. IMO there was nothing inevitable about it. These changes make the college game feel like glorified AAU leagues. And like AAU players, the individual is valued over the team/school.

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Wait until NIL goes into effect and it becomes even more about college players building their own brand.

It's already about college players trying to build their own brand. Right now the biggest value in college sports for the players is exposure because they can't make money themselves.

That's why I actually think NIL could help this some. If you have a strong brand yourself, would it benefit you to stay where you are versus going to a team where you aren't the star player?

I think losing your top assistant that you've had for 12 years is a pretty big blow.

That is probably the more alarming part but we'll never get the full story there. Whatever the deal is is obviously big enough that we're going to lose our best, and only proven, player over it, and that can't be good.

greg.w.h said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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I'll frame it this way - it's now been over 2 full years since Buzz Williams took over as head coach. Aside from the recruiting class that we're not yet sure what it will bring to the table, what has Buzz done really well?

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He has explained the philosophy he has well. He led the second half of conference to a surprising result in the first campaign. He probably did not blow Covid virus all over everyone on the team who got sick. He should have managed the off-campus practice better that got him in trouble.

He is vastly superior on the sidelines to the previous coach. You could even call him entertaining.

On the philosophy: it's easy to dismiss that as not working, but we all pointed both at the lack of talent and lack of coaching during different parts of Kennedy's tenure. There is zero doubt Buzz is coaching actively and probably offering adjustments during time outs and half. He might need to simplify more to get folks really buying in and doing, but the notion he doesn't know what he's doing is utterly false.

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I'm in no way implying he doesn't know what he's doing - his resume speaks and level of coaching speaks for itself.

But you could also say the same for any coach at this level... Hell, you could have said the same for Kennedy the first time he took us to the Sweet 16 -- who are we to question (cue Olin's "how you like me now?" article)?

For whatever reason so many on a discussion forum are quick to want to cease all discussion with "he knows better than we do" and "it doesn't matter what we say, we might as well just wait and see".

It's been a bad two years and certainly not what we'd hoped (or paid) for. It's OK to say that without needing to immediately jump into a defensive "but I still can't coach better than he does and he still deserves the job!".

The weirdly odd thing about the whole thing is, eventually Buzz will be the scapegoat just like every other former coach in every sport became. But until that time when everyone "saw the signs all along", you're crazy to question his methods.

sincereag said:

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There is no commitment anymore with players. Just look at Baylor, they won a NC with four starters who initially signed or played at another school to start their careers. Coaches now have to be able to manage their rosters using the transfer portal.

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Or have access to a lot of cash.

Pumpkinhead said:

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Luicci on radio this morning, implied Cashius McNeilly and Miller have been packaged up with former assistant Jamie McNeilly to help him get his next job (and they coincidently or not both declared themselves in Portal this morning - on same day). We'll see where those two guys land.

This is a pretty devastating transfer. Best player on the team. Had a great attitude, you have developed him really good, now it is time to milk his college 'prime' for the next year or two...and somebody else gets to have him. It sucks, and makes you really question now next season's prospects. Unless they somehow land in the Transfer Portal somebody of roughly comparable value as a Miller.

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One more note to add, from what was said on TexAgs Radio this morning. Desi Sills (G from Arky in Portal) was specifically mentioned by Gabe and Luicci as someone who was a legit possibility. Though this Portal stuff is so ever changing. But Sills apparently (at least as of this morning) is a particular guy to keep an eye on.

Proposition Joe said:

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KCup17 said:

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Miller leaving is definitely a "Oh crap" moment. However in any other year the rest is a normal process. McNeilly hasn't even touched the floor so its really not a big loss, Aku didn't bring much and Flagg and Chandler isn't alarming because that is normally what is expected of seniors after their senior year.

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Only if you take each piece individually.

McNeilly choosing to sit out? Ok.

Aku (a Buzz guy) not panning out? Ok.

Flagg going from a key piece as a sophomore to looking totally lost and disinterested? Ok.

Team missing a month of the season because... well no one really was able to tell us exactly how we were unluckier than every other team in the nation. Ok.

And THEN your star player leaves?

Yeah, as a whole that's not a normal process.

I'll frame it this way - it's now been over 2 full years since Buzz Williams took over as head coach. Aside from the recruiting class that we're not yet sure what it will bring to the table, what has Buzz done really well?

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He's awesome at Twitter!!

Coaches don't honor their commitment, so what is good for the goose is good for the gander

What are you even talking about. He didn't gut the program to implement some kind of recruiting strategy. He's already brought on a grad transfer, two jucu guys and two regular transfers. He didn't run anyone off that had exhausted their eligibility but Starks and now this year's COVID seniors and Aku. Do you think he ran Miller off on purpose?

You can talk about the quality of players he's brought in, but it's not like he's only recruited high schoolers.

So what are you even talking about. Your naysaying and straw men are annoying enough but this one is just nonsense.

The biggest problem on here is the same problem with Twitter, there's always some idiot on the other side of the spectrum you can hold up as an example of "lots of people say saying this."

In reality I think probably at LEAST 70-80% right now are feeling some version of "I hope Buzz has something up his sleeve we don't know about because right now this looks like a disaster, and hitting the reset button going into year three is not what you're paying a coach top tier money for."

Maroon Dawn said:

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Buzz is a dinosaur that's about to go extinct

He gutted this program to implement a recruiting strategy that was already dying and is now officially dead and buried

But there will still be the fan boys telling us we have to be patient and give him 4 more years to "build his team"

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Hey hey, Maroon Dewsh! I was wondering when you were gonna show up spewing on this one....glad you made it

I loved the buzz hire and was 100% convinced he was the guy after year 1. That was a below average team BEFORE it lost Starks (maybe the team's best player) but buzz never gave up and kept coaching and improving them until he'd somehow drug them to > 0.500 in conference play after a horrific start. That said... got dang, it would be hard to script a worse 12 months after he hoisted that SEC COY trophy.

Even a good coach can fail if all the bad breaks hit at the exact wrong times. Not saying that's going to happen, but we'll be getting uncomfortably close to it if the next 12 months go as badly as these last 12

Miller is similar to Elston Turner and Bernard King in that he is a wildly talented player that will mostly be forgotten because he spent his time playing on bad teams that didn't accomplish anything.

Despite what any of the fans think about social justice and BLM it's a difficult situation for a coach. His players and families are mostly folks affected by the movement,
Often passionate about it, see basketball as a platform for it but have a fan base that is largely indifferent at best. I don't envy the players or coaches on these matter.

It will be interesting if he gets on a good team. Some players look better than they are because they're on bad teams. Not saying that's the case, just a dynamic to watch. The opposite can also be true. Some players are better when the talent around them improves.

I agree and think that all of the social justice things that were going on affected the team much more than covid.

Ag_EE_88 said:

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I agree and think that all of the social justice things that were going on affected the team much more than covid.

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And before someone brings up Feb, the season was over before that. If McNeilly was on campus in the fall but chose not to play, I seriously doubt it was truly COVID related.