Sumlin's agent hoodwinked you too I see. There was no legitimate interest from the NFL.Aston04 said:When Sumlin was extended, other teams were looking to take him. Nobody else wanted BK when we extended him and gave him a buyout, to bootzooguy96 said:Captain Pablo said:
BK was not retained, extended, and given obscenely favorable and undeserved contract terms based on merit
Neither was Sumlin. He was because of JFF.
0-18 here we come
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Hop
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0-18 is not going to happen.
Sumlin's agent has nothing on Kennedy's agent. At least there were college teams interested in Sumlin. There is not one team college or NBA dumb enough to outbid us for Kennedy and we still extended him.
I was not "Hoodwinked" by anyone. Go back and read the thread. One more time-My point is clear. One coach got a buyout- that other teams wanted, as evidenced by zona hiring him days after we fired him (at that point his shine had worn off more and still immediate rehire by a p5 school). The other nobody else wanted and he still got a big buyout. Nobody.. and still an extension and buyout.Hop said:Sumlin's agent hoodwinked you too I see. There was no legitimate interest from the NFL.Aston04 said:When Sumlin was extended, other teams were looking to take him. Nobody else wanted BK when we extended him and gave him a buyout, to bootzooguy96 said:Captain Pablo said:
BK was not retained, extended, and given obscenely favorable and undeserved contract terms based on merit
Neither was Sumlin. He was because of JFF.
That is a huge difference.
USC was a real thing. And so was the NFL. Sumlin had NFL interest after being fired from A&M. The fact a power 5 job hired him says there was interest. Sumlin is well thought of.
Hop said:Sumlin's agent hoodwinked you too I see. There was no legitimate interest from the NFL.Aston04 said:When Sumlin was extended, other teams were looking to take him. Nobody else wanted BK when we extended him and gave him a buyout, to bootzooguy96 said:Captain Pablo said:
BK was not retained, extended, and given obscenely favorable and undeserved contract terms based on merit
Neither was Sumlin. He was because of JFF.
Yet TexAgs staff posted articles claiming legitimate interest from the NFL...
Double Diamond said:
USC was a real thing. And so was the NFL. Sumlin had NFL interest after being fired from A&M. The fact a power 5 job hired him says there was interest. Sumlin is well thought of.
Sumlin had no interest from the NFL as a head coach outside of a potential token Rooney-Rule interview. There may have been some assistant positions he was being looked at for, but he wasn't going to be a head coach.
The SEC is soft enough in basketball Kennedy will get something like 4 SEC wins.
4 conference wins? Where?Double Diamond said:
The SEC is soft enough in basketball Kennedy will get something like 4 SEC wins.
free_mhayden said:Hop said:Sumlin's agent hoodwinked you too I see. There was no legitimate interest from the NFL.Aston04 said:When Sumlin was extended, other teams were looking to take him. Nobody else wanted BK when we extended him and gave him a buyout, to bootzooguy96 said:Captain Pablo said:
BK was not retained, extended, and given obscenely favorable and undeserved contract terms based on merit
Neither was Sumlin. He was because of JFF.
Yet TexAgs staff posted articles claiming legitimate interest from the NFL...
Whoops. Hop stuck between a lie he told for convenience on this thread and the actual truth. I bet he will man up, apologize, and admit when he is wrong.
A lie is saying something you know to not be true.expresswrittenconsent said:free_mhayden said:Hop said:Sumlin's agent hoodwinked you too I see. There was no legitimate interest from the NFL.Aston04 said:When Sumlin was extended, other teams were looking to take him. Nobody else wanted BK when we extended him and gave him a buyout, to bootzooguy96 said:Captain Pablo said:
BK was not retained, extended, and given obscenely favorable and undeserved contract terms based on merit
Neither was Sumlin. He was because of JFF.
Yet TexAgs staff posted articles claiming legitimate interest from the NFL...
Whoops. Hop stuck between a lie he told for convenience on this thread and the actual truth. I bet he will man up, apologize, and admit when he is wrong.
Which he did.
Ben is right. I'd put the over/under on conference wins at four. Maybe could win as many as six and as few as two. It would take a monumental season collapse to go 0-fer. Of course I said the same thing that famous year I watched a horrid Baylor team beat the Aggies twice.Double Diamond said:
The SEC is soft enough in basketball Kennedy will get something like 4 SEC wins.
This is actually funny. But true.cevans_40 said:
Can't lose'em all unless you lose the first one.
Basketball can be brought back. Look at what UT did with Rick Barnes. They took him from a school who fired him (sips) and he has the Vols as a top 5 team with 3 star players.
During the Donny Tyndall era, they reached the bottom of the barrel. No fans in the stands, got their assess handed to them. They had an average roster that Barnes coached up.
Wait till he gets some 4 and 5 star players in there. Their best two players, Admiral Schoefield and Grant Williams are 3 stars that have been actually coached.
They've sold out every game this year, and nosebleed tickets against easy conference opponents sell for $150 on the secondary market. He's brought relevance to the program again, and they've had about as much history as us.
During the Donny Tyndall era, they reached the bottom of the barrel. No fans in the stands, got their assess handed to them. They had an average roster that Barnes coached up.
Wait till he gets some 4 and 5 star players in there. Their best two players, Admiral Schoefield and Grant Williams are 3 stars that have been actually coached.
They've sold out every game this year, and nosebleed tickets against easy conference opponents sell for $150 on the secondary market. He's brought relevance to the program again, and they've had about as much history as us.
By those who also don't have a clue.Quote:
Sumlin is well thought of.
Good recruiter ... crappy coach.
No recruiting in the NFL.
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expresswrittenconsent said:free_mhayden said:Hop said:Sumlin's agent hoodwinked you too I see. There was no legitimate interest from the NFL.Aston04 said:When Sumlin was extended, other teams were looking to take him. Nobody else wanted BK when we extended him and gave him a buyout, to bootzooguy96 said:Captain Pablo said:
BK was not retained, extended, and given obscenely favorable and undeserved contract terms based on merit
Neither was Sumlin. He was because of JFF.
Yet TexAgs staff posted articles claiming legitimate interest from the NFL...
Whoops. Hop stuck between a lie he told for convenience on this thread and the actual truth. I bet he will man up, apologize, and admit when he is wrong.
I do not write on the football beat for TexAgs. So there is no being "stuck" here. Nice try.
On the beat, writers write what they are told by the relevant parties and they write about the storyline. So if Sumlin and his team are out there releasing they are receiving head coaching interest from the NFL, that's part of the storyline. It's for the university administration and the AD to determine if the agents are bluffing or not.
I read through most of the NFL sites and I couldn't find sources from the NFL side of things to back up the rumors that Sumlin's team was putting out. It's the agent's job to leak rumors and try to create a demand in the media...and it's the media to report it.
It's for the reader to read between the lines and draw their own conclusion on the truth.
Hop said:expresswrittenconsent said:free_mhayden said:Hop said:Sumlin's agent hoodwinked you too I see. There was no legitimate interest from the NFL.Aston04 said:When Sumlin was extended, other teams were looking to take him. Nobody else wanted BK when we extended him and gave him a buyout, to bootzooguy96 said:Captain Pablo said:
BK was not retained, extended, and given obscenely favorable and undeserved contract terms based on merit
Neither was Sumlin. He was because of JFF.
Yet TexAgs staff posted articles claiming legitimate interest from the NFL...
Whoops. Hop stuck between a lie he told for convenience on this thread and the actual truth. I bet he will man up, apologize, and admit when he is wrong.
I do not write on the football beat for TexAgs. So there is no being "stuck" here. Nice try.
On the beat, writers write what they are told by the relevant parties and they write about the storyline. So if Sumlin and his team are out there releasing they are receiving head coaching interest from the NFL, that's part of the storyline. It's for the university administration and the AD to determine if the agents are bluffing or not.
I read through most of the NFL sites and I couldn't find sources from the NFL side of things to back up the rumors that Sumlin's team was putting out. It's the agent's job to leak rumors and try to create a demand in the media...and it's the media to report it.
It's for the reader to read between the lines and draw their own conclusion on the truth.
Oh bull****
You sure left out a lot between "it's the agent's job to leak" and "it's the media's job to report"
Media integrity and due diligence in verifying the truthfulness of their story apparently have no place at the table
And no, I'm not referring to TexAgs
It's sad you think that the media's responsibility in reporting facts accurately, takes such a back seat to a reader's responsibility to sniff out bull****
I guess it's a rare treat when a reader can simply trust that what they're reading has been vetted, researched, and is accurate and true
Dang Hop. That's disappointing
The fact 0 18 is even a post or remote possibility is an indictment to bk and administration, shame on them.
It's not the media's job to auto-repeat what an interested party tells them and I sure hope that's not how TexAgs approaches its journalism.
If A&M is writing contracts to keep Sumlin from going to the NFL based solely on info from Sumlin and his agent without doing any background research or any kind of due diligence... then my God. That's a huge indictment of the administration and worthy of its own investigation. I'm skeptical of the non-interest from the NFL.
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There is a difference between beat writing and investigative journalism. Clearly, what TexAgs and team sites do is not investigative reporting or hard hitting news pieces. Our target audience wants daily scoop, entertainment, and a place to talk with other Aggies with some beat writing and game stories sprinkled in. If you are expecting us to get to the bottom of Russian collusion, you've come to the wrong place. Your reaction to my post is strange.Captain Pablo said:Hop said:expresswrittenconsent said:free_mhayden said:Hop said:Sumlin's agent hoodwinked you too I see. There was no legitimate interest from the NFL.Aston04 said:When Sumlin was extended, other teams were looking to take him. Nobody else wanted BK when we extended him and gave him a buyout, to bootzooguy96 said:Captain Pablo said:
BK was not retained, extended, and given obscenely favorable and undeserved contract terms based on merit
Neither was Sumlin. He was because of JFF.
Yet TexAgs staff posted articles claiming legitimate interest from the NFL...
Whoops. Hop stuck between a lie he told for convenience on this thread and the actual truth. I bet he will man up, apologize, and admit when he is wrong.
I do not write on the football beat for TexAgs. So there is no being "stuck" here. Nice try.
On the beat, writers write what they are told by the relevant parties and they write about the storyline. So if Sumlin and his team are out there releasing they are receiving head coaching interest from the NFL, that's part of the storyline. It's for the university administration and the AD to determine if the agents are bluffing or not.
I read through most of the NFL sites and I couldn't find sources from the NFL side of things to back up the rumors that Sumlin's team was putting out. It's the agent's job to leak rumors and try to create a demand in the media...and it's the media to report it.
It's for the reader to read between the lines and draw their own conclusion on the truth.
Oh bull****
You sure left out a lot between "it's the agent's job to leak" and "it's the media's job to report"
Media integrity and due diligence in verifying the truthfulness of their story apparently have no place at the table
And no, I'm not referring to TexAgs
It's sad you think that the media's responsibility in reporting facts accurately, takes such a back seat to a reader's responsibility to sniff out bull****
I guess it's a rare treat when a reader can simply trust that what they're reading has been vetted, researched, and is accurate and true
Dang Hop. That's disappointing
Hop
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The irony of this discussion coming on the basketball board when every poster on this board (including me) has questioned why the university gave Billy Kennedy a huge buyout on his contract extension in 2016. In your own words, wouldn't you expect the university to do due diligence here?Belton Ag said:
If A&M is writing contracts to keep Sumlin from going to the NFL based solely on info from Sumlin and his agent without doing any background research or any kind of due diligence... then my God. That's a huge indictment of the administration and worthy of its own investigation. I'm skeptical of the non-interest from the NFL.
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I'm not saying Sumlin is good. But regardless is well thought of.
I am under no circumstances going to defend the Sumlin buyout, but did you happen to notice Guz Malzahn's buyout terms this year at Auburn? I might add that Jimbo Fisher's buyout is six times Sumlin's, and he was 5-6 at FSU when we hired him! Sumlin's buyout is less than Kirk Ferentz at Iowa this year and is less than what Louisville paid to part with Bobby Petrino. Was the buyout scandalous? Yes! Unprecedented? Hardly!Quote:
I would argue that in some ways, Sumlins was more egregious due to the lump sum buyout
Not only was that unprecedented, that was malpractice, IMO, and the work of somebody not keeping the best interest of the University at the forefront
Con Spirito said:I am under no circumstances going to defend the Sumlin buyout, but did you happen to notice Guz Malzahn's buyout terms this year at Auburn? I might add that Jimbo Fisher's buyout is six times Sumlin's, and he was 5-6 at FSU when we hired him! Sumlin's buyout is less than Kirk Ferentz at Iowa this year and is less than what Louisville paid to part with Bobby Petrino. Was the buyout scandalous? Yes! Unprecedented? Hardly!Quote:
I would argue that in some ways, Sumlins was more egregious due to the lump sum buyout
Not only was that unprecedented, that was malpractice, IMO, and the work of somebody not keeping the best interest of the University at the forefront
Did any of those guys have terms that required the university to pay the entire buyout within 60 days of termination?
I don't believe Jimbo has that provision
What about the others?
Also, Look up the definition of "unprecedented", before you get back to me
I don't know how due diligence would help the university in Sumlin's case because by the time you find and NFL team that is actually interested in offerring him, he's gone if that is what he wants. I am not saying A&M could not inquire (and who says they didn't) but true information here seems hard to come by. Of course, with Sumlin in 2012, it wasn't just the NFL - wasn't USC also hot on his heels (by rumor). And coaches who have a single hot year with a major program (with a Heisman winner to boot) are objectively in demand (see, Fran without the Heisman winner).Hop said:The irony of this discussion coming on the basketball board when every poster on this board (including me) has questioned why the university gave Billy Kennedy a huge buyout on his contract extension in 2016. In your own words, wouldn't you expect the university to do due diligence here?Belton Ag said:
If A&M is writing contracts to keep Sumlin from going to the NFL based solely on info from Sumlin and his agent without doing any background research or any kind of due diligence... then my God. That's a huge indictment of the administration and worthy of its own investigation. I'm skeptical of the non-interest from the NFL.
In Kennedy's case, there is no issue with him bolting for the NBA - the only question was whether a Maryland or Kentucky would come calling. The answer to that question required no due diligence whatsoever.
If by unprecedented you meant the same exact amount paid over the same period of time, I'd say you are right.Captain Pablo said:Con Spirito said:
Did any of those guys have terms that required the university to pay the entire buyout within 60 days of termination?
I don't believe Jimbo has that provision
What about the others
Also, Look up the definition of "unprecedented", before you get back to me
I have not read the specific terms of Fisher's buyout and hope I never have to.
If you are looking for a debate with someone who is defending the Sumlin contract or buyout, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Con Spirito said:If by unprecedented you meant the same exact amount paid over the same period of time, I'd say you are right.Captain Pablo said:Con Spirito said:
Did any of those guys have terms that required the university to pay the entire buyout within 60 days of termination?
I don't believe Jimbo has that provision
What about the others
Also, Look up the definition of "unprecedented", before you get back to me
I have not read the specific terms of Fisher's buyout and hope I never have to.
If you are looking for a debate with someone who is defending the Sumlin contract or buyout, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Exact amount paid over the same period? I don't need an exact amount
Just tell me which of those other examples are owed the entire amount remaining on their contracts within 60 days of termination
Or hell, 90 days. Or 180 days
the lump sum payment of the entire contract soon after termination (as opposed to continuing to pay in monthly installments) - THAT is the part that was unprecedented
But if you say otherwise, show what you got
I'm not sure I'd view it as ironic, just another, similar, example of A&M's contract blunders in the last several years spanning multiple ADs.Hop said:The irony of this discussion coming on the basketball board when every poster on this board (including me) has questioned why the university gave Billy Kennedy a huge buyout on his contract extension in 2016. In your own words, wouldn't you expect the university to do due diligence here?Belton Ag said:
If A&M is writing contracts to keep Sumlin from going to the NFL based solely on info from Sumlin and his agent without doing any background research or any kind of due diligence... then my God. That's a huge indictment of the administration and worthy of its own investigation. I'm skeptical of the non-interest from the NFL.
I absolutely would expect due diligence here with Kennedy, as I would also expect them to due diligence to sniff out any legitimate interest from the NFL in Sumlin's case.
The biggest issue I see is, as I stated above, that these contract extensions are happening under more than one AD. The AD not being the common denominator in this scenario lays bare that the problem lies in the Chancellor's office and with the BOR.
The Kennedy extension is irksome, the Sumlin extension, raise and buyout is grossly negligent.
There are two sources that say Malzahn's buyout is due 1/2 in 30 days, the rest over the term of the contract. Since the 2018 buyout (2017 extension) was in the neighborhood of $32 million, this means the present value of the Malzahn buyout is significantly north of that.Captain Pablo said:Con Spirito said:If by unprecedented you meant the same exact amount paid over the same period of time, I'd say you are right.Captain Pablo said:Con Spirito said:
Did any of those guys have terms that required the university to pay the entire buyout within 60 days of termination?
I don't believe Jimbo has that provision
What about the others
Also, Look up the definition of "unprecedented", before you get back to me
I have not read the specific terms of Fisher's buyout and hope I never have to.
If you are looking for a debate with someone who is defending the Sumlin contract or buyout, you're barking up the wrong tree.
Exact amount paid over the same period? I don't need an exact amount
Just tell me which of those other examples are owed the entire amount remaining on their contracts within 60 days of termination
Or hell, 90 days. Or 180 days
the lump sum payment of the entire contract soon after termination (as opposed to continuing to pay in monthly installments) - THAT is the part that was unprecedented
But if you say otherwise, show what you got
Of course, this is not EXACTLY the same as Sumlin's because Sumlin was 100% due in the short term, Malzahn's only 50%. So yes, under your use, Sumlin's was still "unprecedented." But isn't the issue really is but the present value of the buyout? Under that standard, Sumlin's contract, while poorly negotiated, was not unprecedented. If your point is A&M is really terrible at negotiating or that the Sumlin buyout was outrageous, we are on the same page, so I may be missing your point.
It's less whether there was legitimate interest or not (there wasnt), its that Liucci likes to kinda take a stance of "my reporting is not to be questioned", so for Hop to then turnaround and say anyone who believed there was NFL interest was "hoodwinked" is rather amusing.
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Belton Ag said:I'm not sure I'd view it as ironic, just another, similar, example of A&M's contract blunders in the last several years spanning multiple ADs.Hop said:The irony of this discussion coming on the basketball board when every poster on this board (including me) has questioned why the university gave Billy Kennedy a huge buyout on his contract extension in 2016. In your own words, wouldn't you expect the university to do due diligence here?Belton Ag said:
If A&M is writing contracts to keep Sumlin from going to the NFL based solely on info from Sumlin and his agent without doing any background research or any kind of due diligence... then my God. That's a huge indictment of the administration and worthy of its own investigation. I'm skeptical of the non-interest from the NFL.
I absolutely would expect due diligence here with Kennedy, as I would also expect them to due diligence to sniff out any legitimate interest from the NFL in Sumlin's case.
The biggest issue I see is, as I stated above, that these contract extensions are happening under more than one AD. The AD not being the common denominator in this scenario lays bare that the problem lies in the Chancellor's office and with the BOR.
The Kennedy extension is irksome, the Sumlin extension, raise and buyout is grossly negligent.
I think you have it backward. As others have said, after the Johnny year Sumlin was on fire. Common sense would suggest that it was possible that college and pro teams could be coming after Sumlin...especially college.
Frankly, you don't need due diligence to know that Kennedy was not a target for any major program given the inconsistent results during his tenure, but more importantly his medical condition.
Verifying information isn't "investigate journalism", that's just journalism. And if you're not going to make that kind of attempt or you can't determine an answer, then you ought to be pretty clear in your writing that the veracity of the claims are in question---that's not hard and its journalism 101. (And maybe Billy did that; don't recall the particular articles.)Quote:
There is a difference between beat writing and investigative journalism. Clearly, what TexAgs and team sites do is not investigative reporting or hard hitting news pieces. Our target audience wants daily scoop, entertainment, and a place to talk with other Aggies with some beat writing and game stories sprinkled in. If you are expecting us to get to the bottom of Russian collusion, you've come to the wrong place. Your reaction to my post is strange.
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