RRBC for lunch (downtown, not that fancy place up north)

In all seriousness, single thread is supposed to be awesome. We plan to go there soon.

Single Thread is outstanding.

It does look awesome, but in reality, my wife would slap me for spending $1,000 on a meal!

And that's pretty clearly not the desired result for the night...

I now want to try Single Thread! Last time I was there I took my wife to Valette for dinner and it was very nice as well.

FarmerJohn said:

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The only thing I know about Australian wine is that the Margaret river is a beautiful region and a really long plane ride from anywhere.

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I think you can fly direct to Perth and then drive down (not close, but still)

htxag09 said:

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So I think I've limited to a few options:

• South Australia: spend a few days in Adelaide and do Clare valley and Barossa Valley
• Victoria: Spend a few days in Melbourne and do Yarra valley and Mornington
• Final option would be staying around Sydney and checking out New South Wales; Hunter Valley

Any opinions?

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do Barossa and look for the old vine grenache vineyards/wineries. they have vineyards 120+ years old there. amazing

BigAg95 said:

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Just picked up 6 bottles of 2015 Paolo Scavino Barolos (2 of the normale, 2 Bricco Ambrogio, 2 Prapo). Cannubi was sold out. I will pop and pour one of the normales in 2020. The rest are going to sleep for the next 8-16 years!

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The Scavino's are made in a more modern style, aren't they? I only ask because I had a '10 recently that was really good and don't really think it tasted "young". I'm sure it would still be awesome in another decade, but it isn't necessary to wait that long.

bularry said:

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BigAg95 said:

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Just picked up 6 bottles of 2015 Paolo Scavino Barolos (2 of the normale, 2 Bricco Ambrogio, 2 Prapo). Cannubi was sold out. I will pop and pour one of the normales in 2020. The rest are going to sleep for the next 8-16 years!

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The Scavino's are made in a more modern style, aren't they? I only ask because I had a '10 recently that was really good and don't really think it tasted "young". I'm sure it would still be awesome in another decade, but it isn't necessary to wait that long.

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That varies by vintage and vineyard, but often they do tend to be a little fruitier and bolder, and more accessible early on. They still develop some of the typical Barolo nuances over time, and can last for a couple of decades for sure.

This is the first time they are making a Barolo from the Prapo vineyard, so it will be interesting to see where that one falls on the spectrum. I think the normale is a typically a 4-8 year wine, and the Bricco is an 8-12 year wine.

Science and Nature - Part Iv

Here is "Science and Nature - Part IV of Dan Gatlin's white paper on grapes, wine and terroir. Note that parts I and II were four years ago and are recovered in part III. This one I think may be of more general interest as it covers grapes and wine rather than the vineyard. It continues the discussion of the great wine equation:

Genetics + Precision Farming = Great Wine

Honestly, it's some really good free consulting for any winegrowers and wine makers, especially in Texas.

A couple of selected quotes:

Quote:

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Whereas, most wine "experts" would consider "terroir" as a "given", which cannot be controlled, I disagree with the premise. We have seen in Part III that the old concept of "terroir" can be mitigated with knowledge and expertise, and is therefore irrelevant to the future of wine quality, IF Humans are properly educated. Indeed, "terroir" has become increasingly irrelevant globally for the last 40 years, as seemingly limitless streams of high quality product emerge from every corner of the Earth. Therefore, the only Element Which Cannot Be Controlled is reduced to the only one which is truly dependent on Mother Nature: Genetics.

---

Quote:

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But the seeds of heresy were surely planted in me when standing on the border of famous wine estates. Everything produced on one side of the fence was $1200 (in today's dollars) and everything produced on the other side of the fence was $40 (in today's dollars). And you could ask the folks why on earth the disparity in price was so great, and with a perfectly straight face and normal tone of voice, they would reply that the soil and climate was different.

---

Quote:

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About once a week, somebody traipses through my door and arrogantly exclaims, "I just don't understand why Texas is not growing _______." You can fill in the blank with either some Mediterranean variety or some obscure, out-of-nowhere, wacky variety universally rejected by the world of wine.

---

Quote:

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If you are a producer, STOP choosing terrible, inferior genetics to grow and vinify. DO NOT let anyone tell you that you MUST grow inferior varieties because of "terroir". This is financial disaster.

Terroir does not exist. Terroir is an elitist notion which dissuades producers from attempting to produce the best wine they can. Terroir deceives producers into believing they cannot produce great wine, so they must be relegated to produce anything they can, try anything they can, even if it means varieties that are so obscure and obtuse they would be almost impossible to market. Not to mention that the world of wine has already rejected those varieties again and again for centuries.

---

Quote:

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At the extreme other end of the grape scale, we find life's losers of the genetic lottery. I always pick on Grenache. I hate Grenache. I don't hide it. Grenache is the corn meal filler material of wine.

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Thanks for sharing I really like reading this stuff. I don't get his hate for Grenache though. I drink a ton of Spanish Garnarcha and Cotes Du Rhone and have had my fair share of CdP that is almost all grenache. There is more to great wine in the world than Cab.

Water Turkey07 said:

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Thanks for sharing I really like reading this stuff. I don't get his hate for Grenache though. I drink a ton of Spanish Garnarcha and Cotes Du Rhone and have had my fair share of CdP that is almost all grenache. There is more to great wine in the world than Cab.

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He addresses that, and yes you can grow good Grenache, it's just harder. And that's the real point. Texas will have a difficult succeeding in the larger wine world in any case, so why try it with grapes that make it even harder to produce good wine?

Quote:

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Quote:

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He must have only tried grenache from bad terroir.

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Lol'ed at that one

Quote:

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He addresses that, and yes you can grow good Grenache, it's just harder. And that's the real point. Texas will have a difficult succeeding in the larger wine world in any case, so why try it with grapes that make it even harder to produce good wine?

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Cool, still need to read the whole thing.

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Looks like Realm is taking over distribution of some other labels, Ghost Dog and Kata. Anyone have insights on those wines?

Some 2019 homemade vin d'orange.

.....aaaannnndddd???

It turned out pretty well. I let the oranges soak a little too long.

BigAg95 said:

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Looks like Realm is taking over distribution of some other labels, Ghost Dog and Kata. Anyone have insights on those wines?

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I've had Kata once. Very good wine until my buddy poured some Odette. . .

cecil77 said:

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Science and Nature - Part Iv

Here is "Science and Nature - Part IV of Dan Gatlin's white paper on grapes, wine and terroir. Note that parts I and II were four years ago and are recovered in part III. This one I think may be of more general interest as it covers grapes and wine rather than the vineyard. It continues the discussion of the great wine equation:

Genetics + Precision Farming = Great Wine

Honestly, it's some really good free consulting for any winegrowers and wine makers, especially in Texas.

A couple of selected quotes:

Quote:

---

Whereas, most wine "experts" would consider "terroir" as a "given", which cannot be controlled, I disagree with the premise. We have seen in Part III that the old concept of "terroir" can be mitigated with knowledge and expertise, and is therefore irrelevant to the future of wine quality, IF Humans are properly educated. Indeed, "terroir" has become increasingly irrelevant globally for the last 40 years, as seemingly limitless streams of high quality product emerge from every corner of the Earth. Therefore, the only Element Which Cannot Be Controlled is reduced to the only one which is truly dependent on Mother Nature: Genetics.

---

Quote:

---

But the seeds of heresy were surely planted in me when standing on the border of famous wine estates. Everything produced on one side of the fence was $1200 (in today's dollars) and everything produced on the other side of the fence was $40 (in today's dollars). And you could ask the folks why on earth the disparity in price was so great, and with a perfectly straight face and normal tone of voice, they would reply that the soil and climate was different.

---

Quote:

---

About once a week, somebody traipses through my door and arrogantly exclaims, "I just don't understand why Texas is not growing _______." You can fill in the blank with either some Mediterranean variety or some obscure, out-of-nowhere, wacky variety universally rejected by the world of wine.

---

Quote:

---

If you are a producer, STOP choosing terrible, inferior genetics to grow and vinify. DO NOT let anyone tell you that you MUST grow inferior varieties because of "terroir". This is financial disaster.

Terroir does not exist. Terroir is an elitist notion which dissuades producers from attempting to produce the best wine they can. Terroir deceives producers into believing they cannot produce great wine, so they must be relegated to produce anything they can, try anything they can, even if it means varieties that are so obscure and obtuse they would be almost impossible to market. Not to mention that the world of wine has already rejected those varieties again and again for centuries.

---

Quote:

---

At the extreme other end of the grape scale, we find life's losers of the genetic lottery. I always pick on Grenache. I hate Grenache. I don't hide it. Grenache is the corn meal filler material of wine.

---

---

I'm just now starting to read Part III and something early on is bugging me so I want to get some opinion/clarification...

Dan talks of folks looking down on Texas wines as "Terrior Traditionalism" and I get some of that. The idea of terrior is something he's fighting against.

But isn't the reluctance to try/sell/promote Texas wine as much a factor of "the new kid" trying to take a chunk of the market as it is anything to do with Texas' terrior (esp. since the terrior of the High Plains and Hill Country are different)?

Also, isn't terrior more than just the heat index? Soil composition, rainfall, etc?

Quote:

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But isn't the reluctance to try/sell/promote Texas wine as much a factor of "the new kid" trying to take a chunk of the market as it is anything to do with Texas' terrior (esp. since the terrior of the High Plains and Hill Country are different)?

Also, isn't terrior more than just the heat index? Soil composition, rainfall, etc?

---

The term "terroir" is murky and has morphed through the years to include just about anything having to do with "location" that can be imagined. And yes, terroirs is soil, climate (as distinct from "weather"). However, it turns out that that dirt cannot, physiologically, deliver flavor components to grapes. Doesn't work that way. Ask a grower of any other fruit crop on the planted an they'll tell you that.

And yes, "new kid on the block" is a big part of it, just as Napa was 40 years ago. Then Napa's "terroir" was denigrated by the French. Now that Napa has proven it can make great wine, they play that same "terroir" game against anyone they can. Fundamentally, "terroir" is a marketing construct, i.e. if I can assert that my wine is good because of WHERE the grapes are grown, no one can compete with that. It has become a romantic term with all of the attributes of a religious issue, which is way it is so difficult to refute. IMO, the clonal issue (in the next part) is the crux.

YES, there are people who can taste "terroir". In actuality, what they are tasting are clonal variances within a vine variety. And there are hundreds, if not thousands, many times unknown.

JCA1 said:

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BigAg95 said:

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Looks like Realm is taking over distribution of some other labels, Ghost Dog and Kata. Anyone have insights on those wines?

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I've had Kata once. Very good wine until my buddy poured some Odette. . .

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Odette is solid. Never would have thought to try it until I was visiting Realm and Juan sent me across the street. I make a point to look for it on wine lists now as it can normally be had at a reasonable price in the restaurants.

Have you been to Barossa before? Book everything yourself or use a tour company?

Completed the move west to Santa Rosa, was able to visit Healdsburg and the La Crema tasting room, Yoakim Bridge Winery (small Dry Creek producer) and MacRostie over the weekend.

Had driven by Yoakim Bridge before and it caught our eyes to visit some day. Small producer, a fellow named David is the winemaker and him and his wife live on the 5-acre property. They themselves only have Zinfandel on their land, but he purchases some grapes from around the Dry Creek valley. He makes some big red wines if you're into that. Was a good winery to have a small picnic at while we tasted outside on their patio.

La Crema was a neat tasting room, only tasting stuff you can't get in stores.

Had been to MacRostie before and still highly recommend it. Good wines and great atmosphere.

Just ordered some 2017 Myriad cabs. Let the fall release bank account bloodletting begin...

BigAg95 said:

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Just ordered some 2017 Myriad cabs. Let the fall release bank account bloodletting begin...

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Between what I have already ordered and what will be coming up, it's going to get ugly.

I sent the email to my wife but I think she is passing on these. We bought some Elysian so we'll be good.

BSD said:

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I sent the email to my wife but I think she is passing on these. We bought some Elysian so we'll be good.

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Ditto. Much as I like Mike, our palettes have diverged a bit... Continuing the verticals of Elysian and Empyrean, but that's it. Did have a 2015 Empyrean this week. He dialed the oak back a bit, which I prefer...

Ordered some Myriad too. Got a sample offer from Aubert for some chard that I ordered as well. And heading to Napa in 2 weeks with Checkerboard, Sinegal, Quintessa, Hour Glass, Wheeler Farms, and Elan on the lineup. T&P for my wallet.

And that's what it's all about!!!!

MooreTrucker said:

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Having a 2010 J Lohr Cuvee' St. E. It's not as high dollar as most of what y'all drink, but it's the oldest wine we've ever had and it's mighty tasty.

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My most expensive bottle that I've purchased is a vintage Ruinart champagne, and it was $160. The vast majority of the stuff in my cellar is between $50-$100.

IMO QPR rolls off pretty quickly at about $80.

HTownAg98 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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Having a 2010 J Lohr Cuvee' St. E. It's not as high dollar as most of what y'all drink, but it's the oldest wine we've ever had and it's mighty tasty.

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My most expensive bottle that I've purchased is a vintage Ruinart champagne, and it was $160. The vast majority of the stuff in my cellar is between $50-$100.

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Ditto, I have a few $120-150 bottles of champ, and 5-6 bottles of ~$100 cabs. I'm saving all of those and scared to drink them, I will probably die with them in my cellar! I have 250 bottles or so on hand, and the average bottle price in my cellar is right at $40 according to CT.

We are heading to a "Wines of Spain class/tasting tonight. Looking forward to it!