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I always looked a terrior as more of a "why this wine tastes this way" as opposed to "what wines can be grown where".

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The explanation is in the doc, but the article is 14 pages long...

Turns out that traditional "terroir" touts both, and the scientific truth is that it's neither - most especially the "tastes this way" part. The dirt has nothing to do with the flavors developed.

Parts I and II were from 2014 and 2015. Most is repeated in part III.

I plan to read it. I would think that it would play a part to some extent - sand v. clay, water-holding capabilities,etc.


Edited after seeing your edits about I and II

I'd be interested in your thoughts after you read it. Soil, water retention, etc is important to growing the plant, but the possible flavors are dependent upon genetics. Soil cannot directly contribute to flavor, plant physiology doesn't work like that.

Science and Nature, Part III: How Great Wine is Made, One Half of the Equation

I just read the whole thing. I've been pretty fascinated by this whole idea since I first was introduced to it it by you on this thread. I've mentioned before I did a harvest with Pisoni in 2006 and came back tinkering with the idea of trying to be a Texas wine maker (in the end I went into the family business instead ). I even did some research papers on it in while I finished school. But my whole theory on how to make Texas wine better was still predicated on finding the coolest climate possible (high plains or Davis Mountains) and planting the right grapes (Rhone or Spanish.) Somehow I never came across Dan's work or Inwood until this thread a couple of years ago (if I had maybe I would be selling wine instead of produce). This idea that you can basically grow world-class grapes anywhere that the sun will ripen them as long as you drive down yield low-enough still just blows my mind.

I think I may actually send this to Mark Pisoni just to get his thoughts. They were challengers to the status quo in a similar way to Dan in that most people still believed world-class pinot couldn't be grown in California, much less Santa Lucia Highlands, when Mark's dad Gary planted the vineyard on the family's cattle ranch. I bet he can actually relate to a lot of the ideas that Dan is putting out there.

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was still predicated on finding the coolest climate possible (high plains or Davis Mountains) and planting the right grapes (Rhone or Spanish.)

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One of the things I really respect about Dan is that he is constantly learning and questioning. And since Dan is the one who brought Tempranillo to West Texas, 20+ years ago he would have mostly agreed with you.

He tried the Davis mountains 20 years ago. The problem was late frosts/freezes. I believe he only got one crop in 3 or four years there.

That would be cool if you passed it on, it would be very interesting to get their take...

I'm going to be in Austin 7/21-25. What are the best 2-3 wineries to visit while I'm there? I won't have a car so easy to Uber will be necessary.

The closest worth visiting is going to be Duchman, and that will be an expensive Uber trip. Might be better off hitting breweries instead.

HTownAg98 said:

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The closest worth visiting is going to be Duchman, and that will be an expensive Uber trip. Might be better off hitting breweries instead.

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What about wine shops or wine bars instead?

Where are you going to be? Austin Wine Merchant is downtown. They have an excellent selection of Burgundy, but carry a wide variety of stuff. Sunrise Mini Mart has an amazing beer selection, and a bunch of wines sub-$30/bottle. You're on your own there as far as what to get. People like The Grove, Max's Wine Dive, and there are a couple of places on the east side of downtown that I don't know anything about.

MooreTrucker said:

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I'm going to be in Austin 7/21-25. What are the best 2-3 wineries to visit while I'm there? I won't have a car so easy to Uber will be necessary.

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I would put Spicewood on the list.

We're downtown by the convention center.

HTownAg98 said:

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The closest worth visiting is going to be Duchman, and that will be an expensive Uber trip. Might be better off hitting breweries instead.

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Rent a car for a day.
Duchman is always solid.
Fall Creek is close to Duchman (across from the Salt Lick) and has good options.

June's All Day has good wine list

bularry said:

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June's All Day has good wine list

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Been there. LOVE that place!

And Westcaves Cellars has the best wine in the Austin area.

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Just released yesterday. 2015 Chateau Mari LaRose. Bordeaux blend (CabSauv, CabFranc, PV) all from Gillespie County (Fredericksburg). Similar to a Margaux style.

2015 Oenspire Cabernet Sauvignon, Three cab clones, all from Gillespie County. This is the second label to...

2015 Oentrepid, which will be released in the Fall. Oentrepid C is a cab purists wine comprised of four clones. Oentrepid X is a Napa cult wine style - big and jammy - using six different clones, including 169 and 412 which are (relatively) new from France.

They were really well received at the release event. Sadly, for now, they are only allocated to our "Propieter's Club" which is an optional add on to our regular club. Although I may know where you can get a taste...

I can confirm those wines are legit.

Stuff I tried on Sunday. I opened the CdP.

HTownAg98 said:

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Stuff I tried on Sunday. I opened the CdP.

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How was the Mondavi ? I almost opened one of those tonight, but opted for the 2014 Heir Apparent cab instead.

I'm guessing it was really good but needed some time. I'm holding on to a couple of 2012s for a few more years.

cecil77 said:

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I'm guessing it was really good but needed some time. I'm holding on to a couple of 2012s for a few more years.

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My oldest cabs are 2013s. I have some older wines (barolo, Sauternes, Brunello, rioja, hermitage, CdP , champagne).. I'm trying to hold off on drinking my cabs and letting them age, but they are my favorite and I have trouble keeping my hands off of them!

The 2014 Mondavi is drinking well right now.

Rivers Marie release is today. Looks like they dumped a vineyard due to fire and another due to the heat spike killing the flavors. The Lore looks promising though.

Saxum release was today as well. Justin did a really cool thing. Apparently, he had some leftover fruit that he bottled and is giving away to his customers. Just pay shipping. I was allocated 2 bottles for a total cost of $20. Complete surprise when I saw it and a really nice gesture.

Edit - Here's the write up in the allocation-

2017 GRATIAS
42% Grenache, 25% Zinfandel, 18% Mataro, 14% Syrah, 1% Tempranillo
Paso Robles Willow Creek District (15.4% alc.) 330 cases produced

In 2017 we found ourselves with 3 lots that just didn't quite fit into their respective vineyard bottlings or our multi-vineyard cuves. One was a Grenache / Mataro co-ferment from Heart Stone Vineyard. Really pretty and smoky on its own, but completely lost when added to the 2017 HSV cuve. A couple barrels of Old Vine Dusi Vineyard Zinfandel that by no fault of their own, were not selected for the Downstream project. And a single barrel of Booker Vineyard Syrah that was just one too many Syrah barrels for the '17 Booker Vineyard. We decided to throw these 3 lots together and see what we got! Aged in all neutral puncheons and 1 concrete amphora for 20 months. Turned out extremely well, if I do say so myself. Since this is a one-off, we decided to offer it to you at a price that conveys our gratitude for your support. The wine is on us, you pay for shipping.

You don't see that often! Or ever.

This wasn't back for $13.

I picked it up off of my local HEB clearance rack. Sometimes you can find some hidden gems there.

Has anyone been to Barolo/Piedmont for wine tasting before and able to provide some advice? Looking to go next spring/summer and not sure how to go about it, or what to see in the area.

I think BSD has?

We went back in March. I'll chime in later this morning when I'm at a computer.

This past weekend I visited 12 fires Winery outside of Johnson City. They have been in business for a couple of years, founded by three former Redpots (classes of '96 and '97).

I'm not a huge wine expert by any stretch but I found their wines pretty tasty and left with five bottles of their wine.

https://instagr.am/p/Bz9KvhIlQxw8y5LzFw89bLKaNDhXgsS8LzS51k0

Http://12fires.com

Just chatted w/ Zach. Hope to meet up with them this weekend! Thanks for the heads up.

I have not been to Piedmont. Not yet, anyways. We have friends in Milan but haven't visited there in years. Someday...

On another note, the son of the SQN family is making is own wine, Faethm. I picked up a couple each of Syrah and Grenache, as well as a white and rose. Syrah isn't usually my style but I finally made the SQN list this year (love their whites) so ordered some of that and this. If it doesn't work for me, I know my wife will enjoy it!

Sciandri is good stuff! Great family runs it too...

I'm a fan. I feel like it over-delivers for the price, and that's what I like to spend on Napa cabs.