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What are 2-3 labels that you aren't drinking anymore (and why)?

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Caymus. Too sweet, more of an off dry wine now. A few pages back someone posted a great site that showed residual sugar levels. Mike Smith (Myriad and Quivet) I'll drink through what I've got, but not buying any more. Just too "Napa" for me - too much vanilla, too sweet, too much fruit, too little spice.

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What are 2-3 accessible labels that you are drinking more of (and why)?

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Any St Emilion Gr Cru or Pr Gr Cru. Many, many wines I like in the $30-$80 range. Good fruit, nice tannins, but enough savory/spicey/peppery notes that I really like.

ILikeTacos said:

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Goose06 said:

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Water Turkey07 said:

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New Silver Oaks taste kind of like gnawing on a toasted oak branch to me, if that's a style.

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I wish people on this thread wouldn't be so pretentious. If you don't like a wine for the price, it's ok to say it's not a good value buy. To say any wine tastes like gnawing on a twisted oak branch is ridiculous. Drinking a $10 bottle of Bogle Pinot noir that's been open for 3 days doesn't taste bad enough that I'd say that about it. To pretend like you are too good for silver oak and wouldn't drink it if given a free bottle is just ridiculous and that type of attitude on this thread makes it hard for me to read sometimes. And I'm not some silver oak defender. I can't even remember the last bottle of silver oak I had.

/rant

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I just want to throw out that I am not pretentious about wine, but I have a free bottle of Caymus and Opus One in my fridge currently that I will not drink. lol

I doubt they taste like an oak branch but they still aren't good for me. I like a LOT of cheaper stuff more.

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Having an issue with what people are adding to their wine and thinking that's bad for you is one thing. Saying silver oak and opus one taste like twisted oak is a bit too much hyperbole for me.

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Having an issue with what people are adding to their wine and thinking that's bad for you is one thing. Saying silver oak and opus one taste like twisted oak is a bit too much hyperbole for me.

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I understand your point, but wine lends itself to such characterizations. From 100 years ago with words like "it was like walking barefoot through the dew on a summer morn" to 30 years ago: "a sensuously voluptuous wine that longs to be kissed" to the current "tastes like twisted oak stored in my grandfathers closet". Wine words have always been colorful.

And, of course, that Silver Oak probably DOES taste like "twisted oak" to someone who has experienced that taste enough to objectify it with words. Heck, a 100pt 2015 Spottswoode we used as a reference wine last month had discernable oak, which used to be a borderline flaw in wines. Andre Tchelistcheff himself once said something like "if I can taste the oak, I've lost the wine". But the style has changed to the point where most lower priced wines now use oak alternatives (chips or powders) to purposefully impart oak flavors. And those wines sell very well.

Agree on Cadmus. Interesting to read about the Smith wines - he was (still is???) a darling of this board just a few years ago. Curious if your opinion is shared by others. We've got a few bottles of his Dr. Crane and Elysian stored away for the next few years.

Mostly Quivet and the lower priced Myriad stuff. Some of th 2015 Quivet my wife and I have used the last half for cooking, and she won't drink any Quivets any more.

Had a 2015 Dr. Crane recently and it wasn't horrible - with food it was very good. Just no longer my style.

I don't think my feeling is prevalent, but one good friend in our SA wine group has quit buying from Mike as well. We've discussed it (we're similar ages) and it could well be our palettes changing. However, I'm pretty certain 2013 Myriad and 2016 Myriads are very different. I still buy a bottle or two of Elysian and Emperian just to keep the verticals intact.

cecil77 said:

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Having an issue with what people are adding to their wine and thinking that's bad for you is one thing. Saying silver oak and opus one taste like twisted oak is a bit too much hyperbole for me.

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I understand your point, but wine lends itself to such characterizations. From 100 years ago with words like "it was like walking barefoot through the dew on a summer morn" to 30 years ago: "a sensuously voluptuous wine that longs to be kissed" to the current "tastes like twisted oak stored in my grandfathers closet". Wine words have always been colorful.

And, of course, that Silver Oak probably DOES taste like "twisted oak" to someone who has experienced that taste enough to objectify it with words. Heck, a 100pt 2015 Spottswoode we used as a reference wine last month had discernable oak, which used to be a borderline flaw in wines. Andre Tchelistcheff himself once said something like "if I can taste the oak, I've lost the wine". But the style has changed to the point where most lower priced wines now use oak alternatives (chips or powders) to purposefully impart oak flavors. And those wines sell very well.

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How does any wine taste like you are "gnawing" on a branch of any kind of wood? The hyperbole in that post was beyond the typical tasting notes description. Not to mention it is describing an entire brand of wine and not any particular bottle.

cecil77 said:

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Mostly Quivet and the lower priced Myriad stuff. Some of th 2015 Quivet my wife and I have used the last half for cooking, and she won't drink any Quivets any more.

Had a 2015 Dr. Crane recently and it wasn't horrible - with food it was very good. Just no longer my style.

I don't think my feeling is prevalent, but one good friend in our SA wine group has quit buying from Mike as well. We've discussed it (we're similar ages) and it could well be our palettes changing. However, I'm pretty certain 2013 Myriad and 2016 Myriads are very different. I still buy a bottle or two of Elysian and Emperian just to keep the verticals intact.

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I've had the 2016 Myriad base cab. It's definitely in that "jammy" vein, but not as one note as Caymus. Perfectly acceptable bottle to me.

The 2016 is better than the 2015. And yes, we're shaving with a pretty fine blade here, I'll drink them, just won't buy them any more. I can take jammy, even enjoy it. I just don't like discernable vanilla and wood taste. And has been mentioned, frequently with a bit of sugar on top of that.

As to "twisted oak" - hyperbole? sure. But no more so than much wine writing now. Go to cellar tracker and start reading taster notes. For me I don't give much credence to other people's opinions beyond the "interesting conversation" aspect. If there's a reviewer or friend that I know has taste I respect, then I might buy on their recommendation. And I include most posters on this thread.

ILikeTacos said:

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I just want to throw out that I am not pretentious about wine, but I have a free bottle of Caymus and Opus One in my fridge currently that I will not drink. lol

I doubt they taste like an oak branch but they still aren't good for me. I like a LOT of cheaper stuff more.

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I'll take that Opus One off your hands....

Goose06 said:

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cecil77 said:

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Quote:

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Having an issue with what people are adding to their wine and thinking that's bad for you is one thing. Saying silver oak and opus one taste like twisted oak is a bit too much hyperbole for me.

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I understand your point, but wine lends itself to such characterizations. From 100 years ago with words like "it was like walking barefoot through the dew on a summer morn" to 30 years ago: "a sensuously voluptuous wine that longs to be kissed" to the current "tastes like twisted oak stored in my grandfathers closet". Wine words have always been colorful.

And, of course, that Silver Oak probably DOES taste like "twisted oak" to someone who has experienced that taste enough to objectify it with words. Heck, a 100pt 2015 Spottswoode we used as a reference wine last month had discernable oak, which used to be a borderline flaw in wines. Andre Tchelistcheff himself once said something like "if I can taste the oak, I've lost the wine". But the style has changed to the point where most lower priced wines now use oak alternatives (chips or powders) to purposefully impart oak flavors. And those wines sell very well.

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How does any wine taste like you are "gnawing" on a branch of any kind of wood? The hyperbole in that post was beyond the typical tasting notes description. Not to mention it is describing an entire brand of wine and not any particular bottle.

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Lol whoops didn't realize how big of a hornets nest I would stir up with that comment. I don't like pretentiousness in the wine world any more than you and didn't want to come across that way. Kind of got caught up in the wave of making snickering comments about overexpressed Napa cabs.

For the record, I have Silver Oak in my cellar. I've been there with my wife and it enjoyed it before and I'm in no way saying I'm too good for a glass of it.

All THAT being said... A- it's not my preferred style of wine and B- I do think it's a wine that has an inverse relationship of quality and price over the last, let's say 20 years.

To point A- I'm not a huge Napa Cab guy in general. I do like a good muscular cab with a fatty steak, I mean I am a human being with taste buds and a soul. I just personally find areas like Santa Barbara county more interesting and tend to favor Rhone varietals and Pinot (which is actually my first love.) Or maybe I'm just an lolpoor with a bank account that can't afford a winefridge full of Napa Cabs, idk.

Silver Oak and Caymus don't taste like I'm gnawing oak. We just don't like them.

And yes, if someone gave them to me I would re-gift. Plenty of better wine to drink.

Like this label idea

Some of the Napa cabs that I like that haven't gone crazy overboard on their wines or pricing: Neal, Burgess, Dunn, Chateau Montelena, Caravan, Faust.

MooreTrucker said:

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ILikeTacos said:

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I just want to throw out that I am not pretentious about wine, but I have a free bottle of Caymus and Opus One in my fridge currently that I will not drink. lol

I doubt they taste like an oak branch but they still aren't good for me. I like a LOT of cheaper stuff more.

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I'll take that Opus One off your hands....

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I would gladly re gift it to you, but it was a birthday present and the friends who brought me wine signed the bottles, so it is worth more as a decoration now than any standard bottle lol

So here is the question, are Napa wines changing, or are our tastes transitioning to a more Bordeaux style french wine?

Labels and stuff
2 I don't drink anymore- Caymus or Silver Oak
2 I do drink - Odette and way too many red blends to count.

It may be a little of both. I think what has happened with the Parkerization of wine is that Bordeaux cleaned up their wineries and vineyard practices to make more fruit forward wines, but they still have their tannin structure and acid to hold up. Napa was already "clean" and they just started pushing the limits on ripeness and made fruit forward wines with light tannins and no acid. Sort of what you saw happen with Zinfandel, the pendulum is starting to swing back into a more moderate style. Those fruit bombs aren't going away, but those balanced wines with some ageability are starting to make a comeback.

HTownAg98 said:

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It may be a little of both. I think what has happened with the Parkerization of wine is that Bordeaux cleaned up their wineries and vineyard practices to make more fruit forward wines, but they still have their tannin structure and acid to hold up. Napa was already "clean" and they just started pushing the limits on ripeness and made fruit forward wines with light tannins and no acid. Sort of what you saw happen with Zinfandel, the pendulum is starting to swing back into a more moderate style. Those fruit bombs aren't going away, but those balanced wines with some ageability are starting to make a comeback.

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I learn so freaking much from you guys. I hope ya'll aren't just blowing smoke up my ass.

Another thing you have going on now is micro-oxidation in Bordeaux, and especially the Piedmont in Italy. It "ages" the wine faster, resulting in wines that are more approachable younger. I just hope the people in the Bandol region don't find out about it.

HTownAg98 said:

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Some of the Napa cabs that I like that haven't gone crazy overboard on their wines or pricing: Neal, Burgess, Dunn, Chateau Montelena, Caravan, Faust.

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If you haven't tried it yet you should try Amizetta.

Agree on all points.

I do think my palette is moving as well.

[nerd]I've been measuring the pH on the wines we drink at home. [/nerd] Of the thirty so far, the ten highest pH wines are Napa, and the ten lowest are St Emilion or Inwood. Highest measured is 4.02 for a 2015 Davies (Schraumsberg) Cabernet. Lowest is 3.41 for a 2017 Chateau Le Yre Les Argileuses (St Emilion Gr Cru).

Thanks. I do like those wines.

Keep them coming. I'm always on the lookout for good Napa wines that won't break the bank (or at least if they do, they don't take like syrup).

HTownAg98 said:

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Another thing you have going on now is micro-oxidation in Bordeaux,

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From what I've read they're dialing back on it now from where they were 10+ years ago. Ironically, Bordeaux and micro-ox is yet another consequence of Parker. As ratings became so needed by the winery, if your wine needed 10 years to shine, it never got re-rated. And the winery needs to sell its wine on release (or before). So the answer was to micro-ox and make the wine better upon release, at the expense of shortening its lifetime. I think that now 10-15 years down the road those shortened lifetimes are being exposed and Bordeaux is moving back towards tradition.

cecil77 said:

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Agree on all points.

I do think my palette is moving as well.

[nerd]I've been measuring the pH on the wines we drink at home. [/nerd] Of the thirty so far, the ten highest pH wines are Napa, and the ten lowest are St Emilion or Inwood. Highest measured is 4.02 for a 2015 Davies (Schraumsberg) Cabernet. Lowest is 3.41 for a 2017 Chateau Le Yre Les Argileuses (St Emilion Gr Cru).

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How do you test for the pH? What does the higher (or lower) acidity do for the wine taste?

I'm a wine club member at Amizetta. One of the few I have left. Their Complexity Red Blend is pretty dang good as is the Merlot.

I bought an electronic pH meter.

As to the wine. I'm still learning. But for now, it seems to me that the lower pH wines are "brighter" if that means anything. One big thing is ageability. The higher pH wines need higher alcohol to be able to age.

I'm going back to Sonoma in November and want to venture up into the Russian River Valley. Looking for smaller lot Pinot producers to visit. Any good recommendations ?

For all things Pinot in that area I highly recommend Arista.

We like Lynmar Estate.

Benovia, Martinelli, Masut, and Gary Farrell are all places I'd recommend.

Copain, Hirsch, Rochioli,

Rochioli was my favorite for pinots but Gary Farrell for the wine and view and Merry Edwards had good pinots and a free tasting (3 years ago)

I tasted through five different Napa wines on Saturday.
2013 Gallica
2013 Hudson Ranch Old Master (Cab Franc/Merlot)
2012 Herb Lamb
2016 Perfect Season
2016 Boich Family Cellar Beckstoffer Missouri Hopper

Only one wasn't a cab, and they pretty much tasted the same except for the Herb Lamb. Mystery wine #1 was a 2011 Catena Zapata Malbec, and mystery wine #2 was a 1995 Lynch-Bages.

HTownAg98 said:

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I tasted through five different Napa wines on Saturday.
2013 Gallica
2013 Hudson Ranch Old Master (Cab Franc/Merlot)
2012 Herb Lamb
2016 Perfect Season
2016 Boich Family Cellar Beckstoffer Missouri Hopper

Only one wasn't a cab, and they pretty much tasted the same except for the Herb Lamb. Mystery wine #1 was a 2011 Catena Zapata Malbec, and mystery wine #2 was a 1995 Lynch-Bages.

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Not surprised that the HL was the star. That vineyard has been putting out quality fruit for a long time, and their wines have been consistently good since they started making their own in the late 90s.