aggiecive said:

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I'm part of a group of 8 headed to Napa on Wednesday. We have appointments at the wineries listed below. I received many of the ideas from this thread.


Donum Estate
Dakota Shy
Amizetta
Aonair
Italics
KrisTod
Schramsburg
Eleven Eleven
Hall
Del Dotto
Chase Cellars
Biale
Silver Trident
O'Brien

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I've been to a few of these, and we're members at Schramsburg and O'Brien.

At O'Brien, I hope you get Jason as your host...he's awesome. Just got our O'Brien shipment delivered today, in fact...we love that place and the wine.

Del Dotto - make sure you pick the right one to go to, there is the cave tour and there's also a tasting room. Beware of heavy-handed pours in the caves.

Hall - just don't climb on, or touch any of the art pieces outside. They frown on that.

Silver Trident - cute little tasting room that's also a showroom for Ralph Lauren. The prices of the stuff in there will make your head hurt. My wife is a big fan of their rose.

752bro4 said:

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Del Dotto - make sure you pick the right one to go to, there is the cave tour and there's also a tasting room. Beware of heavy-handed pours in the caves.

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You say that like it's a bad thing.

Cyp0111 said:

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How long are you going to be there? Amizetta alone is a treck up the mountain.

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We'll be there 4+ days

MooreTrucker said:

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752bro4 said:

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Del Dotto - make sure you pick the right one to go to, there is the cave tour and there's also a tasting room. Beware of heavy-handed pours in the caves.

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You say that like it's a bad thing.

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Del Blotto...

And then the credit card comes out...

One thing I don't like about the "cave tour barrel tasting" is that there's no way those barrels are used for production wine. You can't open/close barrels that many times per day.

cecil77 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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752bro4 said:

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Del Dotto - make sure you pick the right one to go to, there is the cave tour and there's also a tasting room. Beware of heavy-handed pours in the caves.

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You say that like it's a bad thing.

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Del Blotto...

And then the credit card comes out...

One thing I don't like about the "cave tour barrel tasting" is that there's no way those barrels are used for production wine. You can open/close barrels that many times per day.

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For sure! The ambiance is a great tour, especially for newbies, and then after that you order a bottle or two and move on down the road!

It is fun to do once. However, it's extremely over priced and essentially Disney World for adults. It does get you nice and ripped and get the cash flowing.

Cyp0111 said:

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It is fun to do once. However, it's extremely over priced and essentially Disney World for adults. It does get you nice and ripped and get the cash flowing.

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Right, good for newbies. I most likely won't ever go back but I always keep a bottle of Cave Blend in the fridge for folks.

Also I am starting to laugh at the over priced comments. What isn't overpriced anymore? Millennials (like myself) loving wine has driven pricing through the roof.

Turning more and more to Sonoma given prices in Napa. You can still find deals etc

ILikeTacos said:

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Cyp0111 said:

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It is fun to do once. However, it's extremely over priced and essentially Disney World for adults. It does get you nice and ripped and get the cash flowing.

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Right, good for newbies. I most likely won't ever go back but I always keep a bottle of Cave Blend in the fridge for folks.

Also I am starting to laugh at the over priced comments. What isn't overpriced anymore? Millennials (like myself) loving wine has driven pricing through the roof.

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Damn Millennials!

I haven't been to Del Dotto and probably would have skipped but it was specifically requested by someone in our group...

From my perspective I love tasting millennials. Yeah, I know it's an odd verb, but it's how it's used at wineries...

I think they're the saviors of fine wine. Only by bringing in younger blood that can appreciate, enjoy and purchase fine wine will the industry not completely go to over priced, over manipulated, over amped, all tastes the same, wine!

I agree. I think we will start seeing more innovative wine makers and less fruit bombs at $150/bbl pop up.

cecil77 said:

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From my perspective I love tasting millennials. Yeah, I know it's an odd verb, but it's how it's used at wineries...

I think they're the saviors of fine wine. Only by bringing in younger blood that can appreciate, enjoy and purchase fine wine will the industry not completely go to over priced, over manipulated, over amped, all tastes the same, wine!

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Sorry, couldn't resist.

I don't necessarily think it's just millennials. I know I'm in the infant "wanting to try and learn as much as possible" stage and starting to be able to tell the difference between fine wine and grocery store wine. Much more so than most of my friends.

They did give me a bottle of 2014 Silver Oak Cab for my birthday, though, so there's that.

MooreTrucker said:

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cecil77 said:

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From my perspective I love tasting millennials. Yeah, I know it's an odd verb, but it's how it's used at wineries...

I think they're the saviors of fine wine. Only by bringing in younger blood that can appreciate, enjoy and purchase fine wine will the industry not completely go to over priced, over manipulated, over amped, all tastes the same, wine!

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Sorry, couldn't resist.

I don't necessarily think it's just millennials. I know I'm in the infant "wanting to try and learn as much as possible" stage and starting to be able to tell the difference between fine wine and grocery store wine. Much more so than most of my friends.

They did give me a bottle of 2014 Silver Oak Cab for my birthday, though, so there's that.

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Not a fan, I take it?

MooreTrucker said:

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Not a fan, I take it?

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I regard it the same way as I do Opus One. I have some in the fridge because friends have given it to me but it wouldn't be what I pick off a wine list at any restaurant I go to. The style is not my preference.

Haven't had Silver Oak in awhile, but last I did the Alexander Valley version was pretty good (the one with the paper label). The Napa version (etched bottle) had far outstripped it QPR.

Haven't tasted Opus in awhile, but aged (last I had was an 07 couple years ago, got a couple 08s left, I liked it.

But that being said my opinion of many 2015+ Napa cabs is doesn't need repeating here again...

As far as restaurant wine purchases - I buy beer! Just can't stomach restaurant pricing. I will gladly pay corkage and tip well at restaurants that offer it.

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Also I am starting to laugh at the over priced comments. What isn't overpriced anymore? Millennials (like myself) loving wine has driven pricing through the roof.

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I don't think you can really lay the escalation in wine prices at the feet of Millennials. While I'm not in the industry, I think it is the general growth of wine in society. Yes, a young person is more likely to drink wine than in the past, but I think the younger crowd is dis-proportionally represented in the unusual varieties and blends. So you can "blame" Millennials for the single variety Mouvedre, but that's not what people are spending $150 a bottle on. That's cabernet sauvignon. Now for that I think you can assign blame to the older crowd and to growth in Asia. The rapid escalation in places like Napa, it's turned it to a tourist destination and assigning some bit of image to it. A good chunk of sales of Opus One, Silver Oak, is for the Napa appellation and to impress friends. That image just takes a chunk out of the supply, and leads to an overall increase across the board.

Just how I see things.

FarmerJohn said:

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Quote:

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Also I am starting to laugh at the over priced comments. What isn't overpriced anymore? Millennials (like myself) loving wine has driven pricing through the roof.

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I don't think you can really lay the escalation in wine prices at the feet of Millennials. While I'm not in the industry, I think it is the general growth of wine in society. Yes, a young person is more likely to drink wine than in the past, but I think the younger crowd is dis-proportionally represented in the unusual varieties and blends. So you can "blame" Millennials for the single variety Mouvedre, but that's not what people are spending $150 a bottle on. That's cabernet sauvignon. Now for that I think you can assign blame to the older crowd and to growth in Asia. The rapid escalation in places like Napa, it's turned it to a tourist destination and assigning some bit of image to it. A good chunk of sales of Opus One, Silver Oak, is for the Napa appellation and to impress friends. That image just takes a chunk out of the supply, and leads to an overall increase across the board.

Just how I see things.

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All great points that I could see and agree with!

Almost daily topic in the trades. Probably second to cannabis.


Wine executives debate the promise and peril of millennial wine consumers

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Duncan told the audience of almost 500 that he disagreed with a recent Silicon Valley Bank report that dampened expectations on the potential of this customer base. The report noted "millennials aren't yet embracing wine consumption as many had predicted" given their debt and competition form other products such as cannabis.

"I completely disagree. My experience is somewhat anecdotal, but we see it's a family tradition. Young people are interested in wine and wanting to imbibe wine. I'm really excited about the millennials," Duncan said during the 19th annual Wine Industry Conference sponsored by the North Bay Business Journal, which is owned by Sonoma Media Investments, parent company of The Press Democrat.

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Planning for luxury market after boomers

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That's a function of the way the business moves and intersecting with the new crop of consumers: the millennials and the Generation X. These people want experiences and their wine not just the wine. That will demand new marketing, sales marketing techniques.

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ILikeTacos said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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Not a fan, I take it?

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I regard it the same way as I do Opus One. I have some in the fridge because friends have given it to me but it wouldn't be what I pick off a wine list at any restaurant I go to. The style is not my preference.

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That makes sense because the guy that recommended it to them is a big fan of Opus One.

By style, what do you mean?

Da Fruit Bomb built for Robert Parker...

Cyp0111 said:

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Da Fruit Bomb built for Robert Parker...

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Probably already said it on this thread, but IMO the protracted extraction on these wines sort of "clips the amp" of phenolics and varietal character. Couple that w/ excessive new oak and many of them, while good, taste pretty much the same.

Going to be tasting some of those wines this weekend. I'll report back.

MooreTrucker said:

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ILikeTacos said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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Not a fan, I take it?

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I regard it the same way as I do Opus One. I have some in the fridge because friends have given it to me but it wouldn't be what I pick off a wine list at any restaurant I go to. The style is not my preference.

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That makes sense because the guy that recommended it to them is a big fan of Opus One.

By style, what do you mean?

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I am not anywhere near the wine analyst that several of the guys I truly respect on this thread are. I can describe to you what I like, I can describe to you how it hits my tongue and my palette, but I don't know what it means and how it translates to the making of the wine.

I have been told the words that I am looking for to describe the "style" are the "bold" fruit forward cabs that leave little on the back of the tongue. I felt similarly to many of Darioush's offerings and have pushed away from them as well.

I wish I was a better wine drinker lol.

New Silver Oaks taste kind of like gnawing on a toasted oak branch to me, if that's a style.

ILikeTacos said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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ILikeTacos said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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Not a fan, I take it?

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I regard it the same way as I do Opus One. I have some in the fridge because friends have given it to me but it wouldn't be what I pick off a wine list at any restaurant I go to. The style is not my preference.

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That makes sense because the guy that recommended it to them is a big fan of Opus One.

By style, what do you mean?

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I am not anywhere near the wine analyst that several of the guys I truly respect on this thread are. I can describe to you what I like, I can describe to you how it hits my tongue and my palette, but I don't know what it means and how it translates to the making of the wine.

I have been told the words that I am looking for to describe the "style" are the "bold" fruit forward cabs that leave little on the back of the tongue. I felt similarly to many of Darioush's offerings and have pushed away from them as well.

I wish I was a better wine drinker lol.

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I'm right there with you, although I am a FABULOUS wine drinker.

I can describe what I like in big terms like that, but I have a really hard time getting any more granular. "Notes of blackberry, tobacco, and leather" don't mean much to me because I'm not able to discern the individual flavors like that.

"Dark purple with a vibrant nose. Ample strawberry and raspberry on the bouquet, leading to a palate of green youthful notes, intermingled with luscious blackberry, black cherry, and plum.

Might just as well say "Tastes like ermine eyelashes steeped in chilled mead and sprinkled with crushed cat dander".

I'm not able to say specifically what I like about a wine, or describe what I'm looking for to a somm or to the wine shop guy. I just know what I like and roll the dice, I guess.

Water Turkey07 said:

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New Silver Oaks taste kind of like gnawing on a toasted oak branch to me, if that's a style.

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I wish people on this thread wouldn't be so pretentious. If you don't like a wine for the price, it's ok to say it's not a good value buy. To say any wine tastes like gnawing on a twisted oak branch is ridiculous. Drinking a $10 bottle of Bogle Pinot noir that's been open for 3 days doesn't taste bad enough that I'd say that about it. To pretend like you are too good for silver oak and wouldn't drink it if given a free bottle is just ridiculous and that type of attitude on this thread makes it hard for me to read sometimes. And I'm not some silver oak defender. I can't even remember the last bottle of silver oak I had.

/rant

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"Dark purple with a vibrant nose. Ample strawberry and raspberry on the bouquet, leading to a palate of green youthful notes, intermingled with luscious blackberry, black cherry, and plum.

Might just as well say "Tastes like ermine eyelashes steeped in chilled mead and sprinkled with crushed cat dander".

I'm not able to say specifically what I like about a wine, or describe what I'm looking for to a somm or to the wine shop guy. I just know what I like and roll the dice, I guess.

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Bingo. The "I Taste Red" book discusses this at length. The notes you describe (which I can't do either, and I'm skeptical anyone can to the extent of 6 or seven or 9 descripters. BTW, you left out "my granmother's drawers drawer" which goes with the ermine eyelashes.

But, as to "gnawing on an oak branch", I respect that and don't view it as pretentious. Some of then, do, indeed, taste of vanilla infused lumber. Few if any on this thread are pretentious IMO. And I've met some pretentious wine "common sewers" as my mom calls them.

I have that book on my wish list...hopefully for my bday or Father's Day.

And I actually get the "oak branch" description, sorta, and I can see where it might be a good or bad thing depending on one's personal taste.

Goose06 said:

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Water Turkey07 said:

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New Silver Oaks taste kind of like gnawing on a toasted oak branch to me, if that's a style.

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I wish people on this thread wouldn't be so pretentious. If you don't like a wine for the price, it's ok to say it's not a good value buy. To say any wine tastes like gnawing on a twisted oak branch is ridiculous. Drinking a $10 bottle of Bogle Pinot noir that's been open for 3 days doesn't taste bad enough that I'd say that about it. To pretend like you are too good for silver oak and wouldn't drink it if given a free bottle is just ridiculous and that type of attitude on this thread makes it hard for me to read sometimes. And I'm not some silver oak defender. I can't even remember the last bottle of silver oak I had.

/rant

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I just want to throw out that I am not pretentious about wine, but I have a free bottle of Caymus and Opus One in my fridge currently that I will not drink. lol

I doubt they taste like an oak branch but they still aren't good for me. I like a LOT of cheaper stuff more.

I look at wine as a journey. I'm a long way from E & JGallo white Zinfandel, but I'm also a long way from being a Master Sommelier.

I've picked up numerous recommendations from this thread and I've also tried a few thing that I just didn't enjoy at all.

Maybe a better way of putting it:

What are 2-3 labels that you aren't drinking anymore (and why)?

What are 2-3 accessible labels that you are drinking more of (and why)?

I'd really like to know which wines are included in the previously mentioned over-extracted Napa cabs. I'm curious to see if stuff I like is included. I'm not up on the big trends (other than prices continuing to rise).

Thriller said:

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Maybe a better way of putting it:

What are 2-3 labels that you aren't drinking anymore (and why)?

What are 2-3 accessible labels that you are drinking more of (and why)?

I'd really like to know which wines are included in the previously mentioned over-extracted Napa cabs. I'm curious to see if stuff I like is included. I'm not up on the big trends (other than prices continuing to rise).

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I really like this idea. It would be interesting to go back to it every few months and get updates from those serious about wine. There are so many winemakers it's hard for me to keep everything straight when I'm shopping or planning a trip.