For me that's a problem in general. Having only gotten into wine in the last year and a half, it's very challenging to buy wine and have to wait 5-10 years to drink it. I suppose that's not a problem once you build inventory over the years. I just need a bigger wine fridge.

I upgraded last year.

I think that waiting is overstated to a certain extent. Especially with modern wines (flash, microox, etc)

And part of the fun is watching wines change, and how can you know how they change if you don't drink them all along? Heck, not everyone even likes a 30 year old Bordeaux!

So, sure, put a few back - but otherwise drink away!

Tonight is a 2015 Chateau Tour St Christophe St Emilion Grand Cru - and it's really nice!

Sigh. So did I. Already out of room.

I tripped into a hell of a deal on a 480 bottle wine chiller last year. Not full yet, likely never will be as consumption tends to pace acquisition!

https://m.chron.com/business/retail/article/Messina-Hof-to-open-largest-winery-in-the-Houston-13664310.php

brownguy81 said:

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cecil77 said:

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That's certainly true, but I've experienced the wine "just not being as good" once I got back to home and real life. More of a subjective thing...

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Jim Laube wrote an article last year listing his wine truisms, the one that stuck out to me the most was, "Wine always tastes best at the winery"

Once I accepted this fact, buying fine wine became fun again.

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Where can I find that article? I tried to Google Jim Laube and didn't see it.

We have three smaller fridges, total about 100 bottles. Demand keeps up with supply pretty well except for the wine-valanches in February, etc. Then it does take a few days to get caught back up.

I have a few bottles of a particular kind that I'm trying to space out to see how it ages, but generally as I understand it, most US wines esp. Texas wines aren't really designed to go past 5 years or so, right?

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I have a few bottles of a particular kind that I'm trying to space out to see how it ages, but generally as I understand it, most US wines esp. Texas wines aren't really designed to go past 5 years or so, right?

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"Most"? Yes. But then again "most" wine in the US is $12 per bottle or less and bulk produced.

Of "fine" wines, I think there's two different questions when it comes to cellaring. One is "will it improve?" and the other "will it last?". Most fine wines will last a decade or more (many time several decades) just fine. The ones that will actually improve with age are less common, but not at all rare I don't think.

As to Texas wines, you're probably correct. Many won't even last past five or so years. Inwoods is one of the exceptions (not the only one) that all our wine will last a decade. Much of it will improve for 5-10 years and last 20 or more. Our 2006 Magellan (a Bordeaux blend) is only just now coming into it's own!

cecil77 said:

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I have a few bottles of a particular kind that I'm trying to space out to see how it ages, but generally as I understand it, most US wines esp. Texas wines aren't really designed to go past 5 years or so, right?

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"Most"? Yes. But then again "most" wine in the US is $12 per bottle or less and bulk produced.

Of "fine" wines, I think there's two different questions when it comes to cellaring. One is "will it improve?" and the other "will it last?". Most fine wines will last a decade or more (many time several decades) just fine. The ones that will actually improve with age are less common, but not at all rare I don't think.

As to Texas wines, you're probably correct. Many won't even last past five or so years. Inwoods is one of the exceptions (not the only one) that all our wine will last a decade. Much of it will improve for 5-10 years and last 20 or more. Our 2006 Magellan (a Bordeaux blend) is only just now coming into it's own!

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So what does Inwoods do that others don't? (not trying to be snippy, I really want to learn this stuff).

I realize that "most" includes the mass produces stuff, but for my question those aren't included because I've become a wine snob. ;-) But how does one determine a "fine" wine that could last a decade?

I'm not sure that anyone knows the complete answer to that. Tannic structure is definitely part of it, I think. Tannins are antioxidants and slowing of oxidation is a huge part of how long it takes a wine to degrade. That makes the "how long will it last" part, i.e. how long will it take to degrade and go bad question maybe a little easier.

"How much will it improve?" is probably much less certain. History and experience would have to be a factor, right?

As to Inwood's wines (and Ben Calais' and a few others) the short answer is "higher quality grapes".

cecil77 said:

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As to Inwood's wines (and Ben Calais' and a few others) the short answer is "higher quality grapes".

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From better vines, better soil, better production?

I want the long answer. If you have time, that is.

And which winery is Ben Calais'?

https://www.calaiswinery.com/

Every wine has a sweet spot where it will show its best. That spot is where the tannin, fruit, and acid/alcohol intersect. Typically the tannin is highest when it is young and it declines exponential while it ages. The primary fruit also drops off as the wine ages but there are secondary and tertiary flavors that develop as a wine ages, some people like these flavors others do not. Acid and Alcohol should not change, unless there is something wrong with the wine.

So, the only way to find that spot is by drinking a bottle every once in a while it ages.

What makes the wine last a long time is when the Tannin and Acid doesn't intersect. Those wine are typically lower alcohol wines, because when they are picked the grapes have more tannin and acid, ie France they cant get high sugar( Compared to Cali) in Bordeaux and Burgundy. California wines that age for the long term are typically made more in a old world style.

Acid and Tannin are antioxidants. Whites have acid and not a lot of tannin typically so, that is why they typically don't age a long time.

I hope that made sense.

Thanks for the detailed comments.

And the "drink along the way" is a huge part of the fun for me. The way I like to put it is "you can't find a peak until you've approached it and passed it".

MooreTrucker said:

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cecil77 said:

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As to Inwood's wines (and Ben Calais' and a few others) the short answer is "higher quality grapes".

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From better vines, better soil, better production?

I want the long answer. If you have time, that is.

And which winery is Ben Calais'?

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Some of it has to do with the extremely low yields that Ben and Dan are forcing (sometimes a ton/acre or less, as one of the Inwood wines was about 1/2 ton/acre or even less (Cecil correct me on this if I'm wrong)). When you crop at that low of a yield, you are taking all of the resources of that vine and putting it toward a very small amount of grapes, sometimes one or two clusters per vine. You get all of the phenolic development that you need to make really good wines, but you get very little tonnage. The wines are excellent. Are they sustainable in the long run at the price point they command? Maybe, because I don't see Calais or Inwood closing up shop anytime soon because demand for high quality Texas wine is through the roof right now. So it can be done.

The problem is convincing a bank to fork over millions of dollars to a grape grower to make it happen.

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We have three smaller fridges, total about 100 bottles.

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I had three for awhile, my story (and I'm sticking to it) was that one of them nobody opens unless I'm dead, and maybe not then. The second was for special occasions. The third my wife could open, but her corkage fee was subject to negotiation!

Just landed in Tampa. Going to berns tonight. Can't wait.

Technically .29 tons/acre, but yeah 1 or 2 clusters per vine. Charlie King's vineyard (a good Ag) west of Fredericksburg is designed from the start to be 1.5 tons per acre or less. The "super clones" of Cab Sauv from it are making incredible wines. (Clones 169 and 412)

The "matrix" involved in the viticulture is above my pay grade, but the wines are proof. Dan and Ben are (to my knowledge) the only two doing this. I think Narra Vineyards in Terry County is starting to grow some very good grapes as well. And Ben and Dan are very precise and meticulous wine makers and they both have outstanding palates. You'd be surprised how many winemakers (at least the ones known to me) who really don't have the expertise to judge fine wine and subtle nuances.

I just booked a late September trip to Paso Robles. We are doing a private tasting with Turley, and planning to hit Linne Calodo, and Saxum. Will probably swing by Firestone Walker, should we eat there or just do a brewery tour/tasting? Any other winery, restaurant, or other recommendations? Are there any can't-miss sparkling producers in the area?

Thanks!

I've only been there once so not that familiar with the whole area. Our favorites were J Lohr, Wild Horse, and Justin. And the Ben Hogan winery because it had a little driving range that you could tee off into the vineyard.

Thanks, didn't realize Justin was there. We will probably hit them up. Did you do the cave tour, or just the tasting room?

We just did the tasting room. I'd love to go back for the tour.

We did get a very in-depth tour of J Lohr because some of the folks we were with knew the head guy. That really jumpstarted my interest in wine.

I enjoyed visiting both J Lohr and Eberle.

Thanks, I'll check those out.

Bummer, it looks like Saxum does not have a tasting room.

Been to Paso twice. Highly recommend Clos Solene, Benom, Law, and Kukkula.

Skip Daou.

For beer hit up Barrelhouse.

big-ag said:

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Been to Paso twice. Highly recommend Clos Solene, Benom, Law, and Kukkula.

Skip Daou.

For beer hit up Barrelhouse.

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Thanks! Barrelhouse looks intriguing. I'll check out those wineries as well. I am starting to think 2.5 days is not enough time...

Oh yeah. Cordant. The winemaker is a hoot.

BigAg95 said:

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I just booked a late September trip to Paso Robles. We are doing a private tasting with Turley, and planning to hit Linne Calodo, and Saxum. Will probably swing by Firestone Walker, should we eat there or just do a brewery tour/tasting? Any other winery, restaurant, or other recommendations? Are there any can't-miss sparkling producers in the area?

Thanks!

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I've probably posted this somewhere else in this thread, but I'll do it again.

Places that I'd consider to be "must visits."
Linne Calodo, Law, L'Aventure, Denner, TH Vineyards (Terry Hoage), Epoch, Tablas Creek (do the Collector's tasting) and Booker.

Places that are good to work in when you have time:
Adelaida (do the tailgate picnic tour), Thacher, Paix Sur Terre, Clos Selene, Halter Ranch, Edmund August at Paso Underground, and Herman Story.

You can spend an entire day at Tin City near Templeton drinking wine. If you go, take an Uber, because parking can be a pain on a weekend, and with a dozen wineries within walking distance, it is very easy to over-consume. Plus, most of the places are only open on a weekend, so it needs to be a weekend visit. It's a lot of smaller producers and side projects of winemakers in the area, and should not be missed. We didn't have bad wine at any of the places there, but these are the ones I would prioritize: Jacob Toft (must visit, even if to just have your wine poured by a guy named Fizzle), Turtle Rock, Monochrome (all white wines, which can be a nice break), Aaron, Desparada, Brian Benson, Field Recordings, Levo, Nicora (never got to try them, but I've heard very good things), and Benom. Tin City Cider makes some excellent ciders if you're looking to do something different.

I never had a bad meal anywhere we ate. Il Cortile is a can't miss. If they're making something with black truffles, order it. Other places we enjoyed include Fish Gaucho (just order tequila to drink), The Hatch, Artisan (their pizza is outstanding, and they do take-out), La Consecha, BL Brasserie (formerly Bistro Laurent, same chef/ownership), and Somm's Kitchen. A little about Somm's Kitchen. Do the counter seating. You'll need a reservation to do it, and you can't do it with a walk-in, because you might get yelled at if you act like a jerk demanding it. It's 8-12 courses (depending on what Ian feels like that day), and all paired with wine. There's no real price given, but if you do the full meal deal, it shouldn't be over $125/person, out the door. The courses are small and simple, but you won't leave hungry, and you'll learn a lot about wine. This is definitely a "this is what you're eating tonight, and you will like it, so just let me do my thing" kind of place.

Go to Taste in the Alley. They open in the evenings, and everything on the wall is available to pour by the glass, but they have a lot of bottles already open, and it changes daily. If you stay there long enough, Larry or Kitty will just start pouring tastes of stuff for you.

We've stayed at an apartment called Park Place. It is located above the BL Brasserie wine shop just off the main square. Nice small place, and it being downtown means you don't have to drive anywhere when going out to dinner in the evenings. The only drawback is the Parade of Drunks at 2:00 in the morning and early morning deliveries to the restaurants. That didn't matter much to us, because we are early risers anyways.

If you are planning on bringing wine back with you, find a place you can ship it from, and make sure they're ok with it. I made that mistake last year, and I was sitting in that apartment with two cases of wine and trying to figure out how the hell I was going to get it back to Texas.

Hope this helps.

Thanks much, Htown! I knew you'd have a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate you taking the time to share it!

Somm's Kitchen, Artisan, and Taste in the Alley are definites for us. Will try to work in Il Cortone too. We are staying in a 1 BR villa at Dunning vineyards.

I am glad you mentioned Tablas Creek. It is featured on the Paso episode of V is for Vino (along with Artisan), but I've not heard much buzz about it otherwise. That and Turley were the two main reasons we decided to do Paso this time instead of Napa or Sonoma.

We are there Tues-Fri, so it sounds like we may need to skip Tin City. Bummer.

Personally, I would skip Turley. Their wines are very good, by there's better choices on wines that you can't easily get in Texas.

The Mrs. is all about the zin, so I booked a private zin tasting at Turley. But otherwise, I think we will be looking to discover wines that are new to us.

Anyone ordering Spottswoode? Gotta say they're my favorite Napa wine right now. "Napa's first growth" as far as I'm concerned!