BSD, how many '13 Sugarlaof do you have for sale? Let me know if you want to lay off any of your upcoming Realm allocation.

Just one Sugarloaf. I may take a Crane and a Farrella but my whole Realm allocation is up for grabs.

HTownAg98 said:

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Anyone have any recommendations for cellar worthy Sonoma County Cabernets/Bordeaux blends? Napa is getting a little too insane for me right now, so I'm looking for some good alternatives. My absolute favorite is Peter Michael, but that's way beyond my budget. I've had Chateau St. Jean Cinq Cepages, and like that one a lot too, and that's more in my budget.

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Arrowwood? I think they make Knights Valley

Stonestreet makes some good Cab in the $75 range, at least they used to. Haven't had any since '11 probably.

HTownAg98 said:

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cecil77 said:

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If you can appreciate the style, their are great buys in 2nd, 3rd, 4th growth Bordeaux. Lots of $40 - 60 bottles.

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I do like the style, but I have no idea who makes a $50 showstopper or a $50 bottle of plonk.

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As I drink some I'll try to mention here.

2012 Chateau Haut Batailley $45 5th growth
Needs a little time in the glass to loosen up. On the, earthy side, but still bright acidity. Well worth the price.

Nice. Do they coravin wines now or is that a special tasting, deal y'all had? Headed there tomorrow for my bday.

For that wine they Coravin since it's served by the spoonful. I think they coravin a few others from time to time but you'll have to ask.

Just curious

I just looked online and they currently have one white available by Coravin on the wine list. I remember asking a while back if they had anything more interesting available by the glass than what was on the wine list and whatever it was didn't interest me. He did say to ask each time just to be sure but we usually just pick up a bottle.

http://files.pappas.com/images/dyn/menus/menu_396.pdf

I always get a kick out of reading the Pappas wine list, because it approaches Vegas level insanity markups. However, there are some values on the list if you know where to look.

It's crazy. I HATE ordering wine there, which is a shame because the steaks are so damn good. The Essencia was fun though. I rarely see that on a list.

BSD said:

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It's crazy. I HATE ordering wine there, which is a shame because the steaks are so damn good. The Essencia was fun though. I rarely see that on a list.

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If they were pouring something by the glass from a large format bottle, I might consider going. I understand why their markup is what it is (because they have to make money somewhere), but it doesn't mean I have to like it. Plus, my wife and I aren't big steak fans, so if I want a good steak, I'll make one and open something at the house.

I'm with you 110% ...except that I love steak.

Great steaks, but I just can't go somewhere they won't let me take my own wine. Plenty of places will.

Overall I agree with you. But my wife got the special, a filet topped with foie gras and it was one of the best bites of food I've ever had. We had the '12 Barbour and it was good. One decent value wine I saw on the list was the outpost Zinfandel for $120. Not great, but not near the markup of some of the other wines.

Is the Pappas markup considerably more than normal fine dining markup? Never been. Sounds like it is.

Do we have a good updated list of byob places in Houston?

Lucios
Just dinner
Pepper twins


What else is there that's good food?

I went to pappas last night here in dallas and our party ordered two bottles of Peter Michael that I thought were wonderful and worth the mark up, just sayin...

I almost ordered a 2012 Realm simply because I have been having a hard time locating one for myself

ILikeTacos said:

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I went to pappas last night here in dallas and our party ordered two bottles of Peter Michael that I thought were wonderful and worth the mark up, just sayin...

I almost ordered a 2012 Realm simply because I have been having a hard time locating one for myself

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Expense account, huh?

Their wine markups are painful for anyone spending their own money. Just my opinion

Stagecoach said:

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ILikeTacos said:

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I went to pappas last night here in dallas and our party ordered two bottles of Peter Michael that I thought were wonderful and worth the mark up, just sayin...

I almost ordered a 2012 Realm simply because I have been having a hard time locating one for myself

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Expense account, huh?

Their wine markups are painful for anyone spending their own money. Just my opinion

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No expense account, we were there celebrating a friend's divorce.

This is an interesting observation, as we are okay in this thread to drop $1200 on dinner at the French Laundry but buy a couple bottles of wine at dinner at the #1 rated steakhouse in Dallas and come in way less than that and that isn't worth our own money? I think that is interesting, maybe I am not the consumer for this thread but the only reason I even "collect" wine is to enjoy and drink it with friends. Even if I have to pay a premium it is worth it in that moment if the company is right (of course this is my opinion).

In the big scheme of things, splurging on a nice dinner every 3-6 months and overpriced wine is hardly going to tip the scales for anyone in this thread.

Agreed. Part of is is just a "playing the game" aspect. However, for me that $1,200 meal at French Laundry is a once. (period) thing. And I've not even made it there yet!

Some of you may be a member of the Wine Knerds United group on Facebook. Mostly somms. And their take on the subject is interesting, to say the least. And, for a wine list , like Pappas, I completely understand the cost of curating and maintaining a list like that. If you think of all of that wine as little bundles of cash getting dusty on the shelf, it's easy to understand the pricing.

Still, for me the number of BYOB places (and, quite frankly, with some industry "ins" almost every place can be) I'd much rather take my own bottles, and of course share with the somm and wine manager, than pay a 300% premium (or more) for a bottle that I may well already own any way!

And more and more, what we really enjoy is inviting friends over, cooking ourselves, and sharing our bottles.

I'd settle for even being able to BYOB somewhere

No such luck in Colorado

But do you tip on a bottle that's marked up 300%?

I became a part of that group about a month ago and there are some weird knerds over there.

That's a really good question. I tip very well .However, I think I'd probably calculate the wine tip separately.

Oddly enough, when we BYOB I calculate the tip based (at least) on the retail value of my wine plus more for "table rent". We bring our own stems (unless it's a really upscale place) and uncork as well - so we really cost the restaurant nothing.

Water Turkey07 said:

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I became a part of that group about a month ago and there are some weird knerds over there.

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Why yes, yes there are...

Wait until you realize that you're one of them...

cecil77 said:

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Agreed. Part of is is just a "playing the game" aspect. However, for me that $1,200 meal at French Laundry is a once. (period) thing. And I've not even made it there yet!

Some of you may be a member of the Wine Knerds United group on Facebook. Mostly somms. And their take on the subject is interesting, to say the least. And, for a wine list , like Pappas, I completely understand the cost of curating and maintaining a list like that. If you think of all of that wine as little bundles of cash getting dusty on the shelf, it's easy to understand the pricing.

Still, for me the number of BYOB places (and, quite frankly, with some industry "ins" almost every place can be) I'd much rather take my own bottles, and of course share with the somm and wine manager, than pay a 300% premium (or more) for a bottle that I may well already own any way!

And more and more, what we really enjoy is inviting friends over, cooking ourselves, and sharing our bottles.

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I like this sentiment and I need to find some good BYOB places in the DFW area besides my go normal go to.

If you get a chance, the French Laundry is so worth it. Had it once and I am going back in May. Nom.


Ok I keep seeing 300% being thrown around for Pappas, and this is the bottle I bought there for $340.

https://www.wine-searcher.com/find/peter+michael+paradis+cab+sauv+oakville+napa+valley+county+north+coast+california+usa/2013

$275-$285 on the market currently? I happily pay that premium for it to be there.



EDIT: BTW, my first Peter Michaels at the suggestion of the Somm since I was going to order a Realm Beckstoffer. I liked it a lot! Will be purchasing some for home!

I would call that "cheap", actually, given the service and storage they've provided.

Au Paradis is a $200 bottle on release. That $275 price is secondary market. So it about a 70% markup over RETAIL. That's pretty steep.
And I understand what all goes into that price. Storing wine in restaurant space is damn expensive, as is the somm and other front of house labor. It's just not a neighborhood I want to play in with my own money.

HTownAg98 said:

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Au Paradis is a $200 bottle on release. That $275 price is secondary market. So it about a 70% markup over RETAIL. That's pretty steep.
And I understand what all goes into that price. Storing wine in restaurant space is damn expensive, as is the somm and other front of house labor. It's just not a neighborhood I want to play in with my own money.

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Right, yeah, I don't have an allocation of Au Paradis, I would have to buy it on the secondary market. Thus the price is reasonable to me. Same with getting a Realm there at $400+, if I were to buy the wine now I would pay over retail. Still not 300% like ya'll were trying to vilify them for, almost like we have the socialist contingent of TexAgs in this thread...

If you want Realm that badly, some capitalist pig has some for sale on the previous page.

It is the exact opposite of socialism. If what you say is true, we'd be trying to get the government to intervene and fix prices, and that is not what is happening. Also, if you can afford it and justify it to yourself, well bully for you then. But since I don't have a corporate expense account that allows me to buy wine at those prices, and I prefer to spend my wine budget on finding good value, it is highly doubtful that I will be buying off of their list.

on the topic of Peter Michael, i was just asking a friend about drinking a 2008 Les Pavots. he was telling me to open is 12 hours ahead, blah blah (he's a super wine nerd).

I know that bottle wasn't Les Pavots, but still, the '13 was approachable at this early age?

thx