Welp, unfortunately I got an email from will that he won't be available and rivers Marie's tasting room won't be open when I'm there. Pretty bummed, as I've never had their wines and was looking forward to it after this thread. Anywhere else I can taste, buy his wines? Are they available at 750 wines?

That sucks. October is very busy for everyone out there, moreso for the small producers, so I'm not surprised. I have an '11 Chard and a '13 Summa pinot that I can part with if you are interested in those. I don't have any cabs to sell, though.

I'm gonna disagree with BSD a bit. I don't really buy the "vintage" argument a lot. even a bad vintage in Napa weather wise is nothing in comparison to what would be considered "bad" growing in Bordeaux or Burgundy. ie, it is never really that bad in Napa.

BSD likes the bold flavored wines, see his love of Cabs like Rivers Marie, etc. If you like a bit more earthly or nuanced flavors, then you might enjoy an '11 more than a '13, frankly.

The '06 vintage was widely panned, but I drank a few last year and all were outstanding. The key is to buy from producers who generally produce good wine.

so with that said, looking at the list I see a few producers that I like and I think are quality such as Dalla Valle, Carte Blanche, Lewelling and Spring Valley and Dunn. If you have liked other vintages from those producers, then I would think you would like an '11 at this discounted price even if the flavor profile is a bit different than '10 or '12 due to a bit cooler/wetter growing season.

just my thoughts and I'm sure others with more knowledge would disagree.

2011 was pretty damn bad for Napa. First, it was cold, so everything had trouble ripening, and what did ripen partially got hit with rain during harvest. There was a bunch of lots that didn't make it into primary bottlings, and tons of thin, green wine got dumped on the bulk market.
Granted, those places that could afford strict table and optical sorting still made some decent wines. But, why would you spend $100/btl for 2011 ok wine, when you could spend the same amount on 2012 exceptional wine or even 2013 damn good wine?

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"The key is to buy from producers who generally produce good wine."

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Couldn't agree more.

I don't think you are disagreeing with me much at all. Notice I said that "It's an off vintage and most of those are large producers that don't tend to the vines as much as they could have." So yes, I characterize the vintage as off and possibly damaged by the late rains (I was out there at that timein the rainit sucked) but I also alluded to shying away from the large producers. As I've said before, it all depends on the producer (some picked before the rains and did quite well) and possibly the area of the valley. So while I was generalizing, you should know I'll do my homework. That list just wasn't impressive other than a couple of higher end bottles, and you could probably find some better deals elsewhere if you remain patient, or buy better bottles from other vintages.

As for me, I didn't completely ignore the 2011 vintage and have about 14 Napa cabs in my cellar from that year (probably more than I need at this point). You're right in saying that I like the bigger bolder cabs, and have about 40+ from '12 and '13. But I also enjoy a softer, more elegant cab (Pott's Her Majesty comes to mind). I've also spoken the virtue of 2006 many times on this thread. 2011 is no 2006.

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But, why would you spend $100/btl for 2011 ok wine, when you could spend the same amount on 2012 exceptional wine or even 2013 damn good wine?

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Couldn't agree more.

One thing to bear in mind is that you are in the upper echelon of wine buyers. Not everyone can collect on the criteria you do. For many of us price is the driver, or price/quality. If I see Chateau Montelena Napa Cab or STWC Artemis in the low $30s, I'm buying it. I know that they are huge producers, but it's a good, reliable cab I can open on a Tuesday night or for guests who don't give a crap about wine, or even just to enjoy myself w/ no worry. In my case I can also budget for a few bottles in the $100+ price range (goodness knows you can't spit in Napa w/out hitting a $100 Cab). While I really enjoy reading (and envying) the perspective that you have, it's not the same as mine.

That being said, that list has few bargains at any price point.

I'm traveling this week for work but I'll email you when I get to the hotel tonight. I'll most likely take you up on that offer.

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One thing to bear in mind is that you are in the upper echelon of wine buyers. Not everyone can collect on the criteria you do. For many of us price is the driver, or price/quality. If I see Chateau Montelena Napa Cab or STWC Artemis in the low $30s, I'm buying it. I know that they are huge producers, but it's a good, reliable cab I can open on a Tuesday night or for guests who don't give a crap about wine, or even just to enjoy myself w/ no worry. In my case I can also budget for a few bottles in the $100+ price range (goodness knows you can't spit in Napa w/out hitting a $100 Cab). While I really enjoy reading (and envying) the perspective that you have, it's not the same as mine.

That being said, that list has few bargains at any price point.

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I understand that completely. Nothing wrong with a $30 cab. You have to remember, I haven't always bought the way I do now. But even back then, I would still go for quality for what I could afford. I remember finding BV Rutherford at $12 was like having the stars align for me! Even when I stepped up the game on my purchases, I still bought 3-5 cases a year of Cameron Hughes at Costco (among other bargain wines like Educated Guess) for everyday drinkers or bottles for guests. There will be sales like this again, like retailers do every year, no matter what the vintage. As you well know, Cecil, there will always be great bargains at HEB and the like, you just need to be patient. But we are talking about this list. Large produces in a bad vintage don't typically fare well. What I buy should be irrelevant to this discussion. I'd pass no matter what and seek out better deals elsewhere (be it '11 or not).


FWIW, I did not like Artemis at all. It was a mess and I paid restaurant price for it. Ugh.

for the value seekers, here is an email I got yesterday that I would have jumped on 3 years ago...

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For longtime drinkers of The Paring wines, the secret you have always believed to be true is finally out The Paring offers some of the best values in California!

In August 2015, Antonio Galloni of Vinous and Jeb Dunnuck of The Wine Advocate, reviewed our current line-up of The Paring. Here is some of what they had to say:

"Made by the team at Jonata, these wines are basically declassified lots that didn't make the cut for the top Jonata releases. These 2012s are a step up from past vintages and are crazy values. Don't miss a chance to grab some of these!"
-Jeb Dunnuck, The Wine Advocate

"These are the first wines I have tasted from The Paring, the second label of Jonata and The Hilt. The four wines in this range are all absolutely delicious. Best of all, the wines are all priced at $25 a bottle, which makes them among the very finest values readers will find in California. A great choice for by the case purchases or glass pours, these new releases from The Paring deliver serious bang for the buck. It simply does not get better than this." -Antonio Galloni, Vinous


Both Jeb and Antonio were particularly enthusiastic for The Paring Red, a wine focused on our cabernet lots:

2012 THE PARING RED
$25 per bottle
92 POINTS Antonio Galloni's Vinous
91 POINTS Jeb Dunnuck, The Wine Advocate

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www.theparing.com

https://www.jonataallocations.com/assets/files/The%20Paring%20Dunnuck%20and%20Galloni%20Scores%20from%20August%202015.pdf

I got that email too. I'm thinking about it. My issue is I've got shipments coming soon.
Also, tis the season to scour the clearance racks where you buy wine. The fall releases are coming out now, and you can find some killer deals on wines that haven't moved all year. I shop at an HEB Plus near me that has a somewhat higher median income, but not the kind of income that's buying Staglin all the time. I've found grower champagne regularly at $60, marked down to $30. I've also found Blackbird Arise marked down to $35. If you're willing to burn a little gas, there are deals to be had right now.

Thanks, I'll look today. The paring stuff looks interesting, but their freight is a killer. Pretty much adds 25% to the price...

All orders of a 12 bottles or more will ship for $1 (domestic orders only). so there ya go...just buy big!

You guys see this? Pretty damn funny.

Single Berry Ferment

Didn't see that! 6 bottles was almost $60!

That's friggin' perfect. I wish they had kept the straight face till the end...

I just purchased this book from Kelli White, one of the sommelier's at Press. 1,200 pages all about Napa Wine and the history of it.

http://www.napavalleythenandnow.com/

TP Ag, that's pretty funny.

haha! good stuff.

Thanks, I put that book on my Christmas list (along with Cecil's DRC recco).

Pott wines release is coming soon. This is their last vintage of Aresenal. The owner of the Greer vineyard will be holding all the grapes for his own label, oddly enough named Greer, which Pott also makes.

Speaking of Pott, I have a few bottles that I'll be letting go of soon to make room. These are wines of which I have multiple bottles and I'll be selling at market prices. If anyone has interest, let me know.

Apparently I have a buying problem. I just acquired a few bottles of DRC for fall delivery/pickup. Some are special occasion wines for my son for waaaay down the road. I hope he likes pinot. Or then again, I kinda hope he doesn't...more for me!

I think we need an intervention for BSD. We, of course, would need to confiscate the source of said addiction.

BSD, I'm interested in the Pott, shoot me an email and let me know what you've got.

The Paring is a very good value. Local wine shop had it and I took one on the owners rec. well worth the $25.

I think I am coming around. The 2013 Scarecrow M. Etain release is out and I'm passing.


I'm cured!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (please don't take my DRC)

I purchased a 2 pack of the '13 M. Etain, haven't ever had a sub par bottle of it.

The few bottles I've drunk have been enjoyable. But I have to be honest on why I passed, I'm hoping for a 6-pack allocation of '13 Scarecrow.

I'm just hoping for a 3 pack allocation. Crossing my fingers it happens this year.

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Thanks to AlexSAwineguy for including me in their monthly wine lunch yesterday. Shown is the damage. Seven guys over three hours. Note to self: Eat breakfast next time...

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Cecil, I don't have a cellar as deep as most of ya'll but it suffices and is growing; how does one go about getting included as a guest into a monthly wine lunch in SA? I don't want to invite myself but there are way too many of my friends that don't fully appreciate a fine wine and I'd like to share some of my wines with people that share the same love of wine as I do.

Bring them to my house, and I'll cook.

My wife had a friend over last night and opened a 2007 Outpost Howell Mountain Zinfandel. Naturally, I snuck a glass in. They've always made good zin but this one was better than good. It was very, very good. Granted, that was my first glass of zin in over 2 years, but wow. They then opened up a bottle of 2009 Zichichi zin which was good, but didn't compare to the Outpost. I only had a sip of that one.

You know what, I haven't had a Zin in forever either .

Went to big winos yesterday. The rankings were as follows. We tasted all these blind, and had to figure out which was which. I switched the Seven Stones and GKG. Everything else I got right. Here are the rankings.

1. 2012 Seven Stones Cabernet
2. 2012 Dancing Hares Cabernet
3. 2013 GKG Cabernet
4. 2008 Paolo Scavino Barolo Rocche dell Annunziata Reserve
5. 2012 Vina Montes Alpha M
Mystery wine was a 2013 Mercury Head. I guessed a 2010 Ovid. All the wines were excellent.

Don't know if I've posted this here or not but if you are in SA, twin liquors runs a really nice $1 over cost sale couple of times a year.

The store at 281/bitters is best for selection but I've found nice stuff at a few of their stores. Just be a little careful with some of the corks. And go on Thursday when they sale starts. By Saturday, the best stuff and best buys are gone. They've got a nice controlled temp room for higher end wines as well.

Picked up some '12 ridge cab (not monte bello) for $35 or so, '05, '09 and '10 Corison for $53 and a very nice '09 de toren fusion V (South African Bordeaux blend) at close out for $30.

I highly recommend them for people in SA.

Thanks! I'll check out the store in Boerne...

D78230,

Your post is spot on about the Twins sale. I usually go on Thursday (on 1st day) and pick up as many CDP's and Italian's as I can handle.

A2