Thanks for the clarifications.

I guess that's the difference. Yes, in the past it has, by some, been viewed as a negative. However now that most big and prestigious Bordeaux producers use it (and have for a decade), opinions have changed.

I understand (I guess) that it angers you that I see our wine as comparable to many in Napa. And you are not alone in that opinion.

However, I am not alone in my opinion. And to everyone, pardon the hubris, but what with the "petty tyranny of idiots" that we're all living through, I'm just pissed off most of the time nowadays, so here's some choice quotes just to make me feel better.

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"We continued to Inwood Estates Vineyards, where we saw Dan Gatlin, the owner and one of the judges at the competition, and certainly one of the finest winemakers in Texas and possibly the USA. Dan told me that there are now 9,091 wineries in the USA, which I found incredible. He set up a range of wines for us to taste. He concentrates on clones, low yields and phenolic profiles and is truly expert at what he does. One of his wines is produced from a yield as low as 0.29 tons/acre and for his Cabernet wines he uses no less than 12 clones, which he vinifies separately. This is precision winemaking. The climate is hot and dry, the soil calcareous and geologically old. The wines are powerful, balanced and varietally accurate. His Chteau Marie La Rose was a fine example of what can be done in Texas. He is shy and withdrawn, but full of enlightening information and I hope that he will come and see me when he comes to Bordeaux." -- John Salvi, Master of Wine The Count of Wine: A hedonistic autobiography

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This is the real deal folks, Dan and his team at Inwood have hit on something, it's definitely not luck. I'm impressed more and more every time we visit, truly worth the visit. Prices will scare most, but when compared to other wines of the same quality, I think they're justified. -- Shawn Bryant, wine distributor

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In my opinion, this is the only winery in the Fredericksburg area worthy of being introduced to Napa Valley.

Inwood is not for the inexperienced however. Sure, you will find many "tourist attraction" wineries throughout Fredericksburg. Locations offering shopping, food, and cozy appointments with live music. You might even find a palatable wine here or there, one that would fit easily into a table wine category. However, if you're looking for a true 100% Texas wine that rivals some offered in the Napa Valley, then Inwood Estates is a must visit.

Do not expect an overly commercialized environment. They're not posturing as a restaurant, music venue, or gift shop. This location is all about true quality Vino. Inwood is staffed with individuals, well-educated and knowledgeable about one particular thing, the art of making a fantastic wine.

Unlike many other wineries within Fredericksburg, there's no supplementation of California grapes going on here. This is a 100% Texas wine, that is superb. Remember, if it doesn't say Texas on the front label, then its NOT a Texas wine. Some may find Inwood a little pricey, however their dedication, experience, and quality is truly reflected within one glass. Once in a while you must pay for excellence.

If you are the type that appreciates the craftsmanship and science behind winemaking, then this is your winery. Secure a ticket to one of the "Private tasting with the Winemaker" or "Barrel Sampling" events, you won't be disappointed. Ensure that you sign up for their newsletter, they offer many interesting events throughout the year, all obviously centered around Wine.

Inwood Estates is a winery offering quality "Napa style" wine that can proudly be called a Texas Wine success story. -- yelp review, no clue who wrote it.

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We recently got back from the Ribera del Duero area of Spain, known for their big and bold tempranillo , amongst the best in the world. Last night, we had the Inwood 2017 reserve tempranillo. It would compare favorably to the very best we had in Spain. You just have to try it to believe it! --- Mike Novack, Facebook post in January

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ver the years, I've been pleased and amazed about the increasing quality up Texas wines. Yesterday we stopped at Inwood, their new location outside of Fredericksburg. I was hesitant when I saw the cost of their wines. Then I tasted them, and I thought how can this be a Texas wine. I would put it up against anything in Napa in a blind tasting. The wine maker was sitting a few tables away from me so I asked him, how did you achieve this quality from Texas grapes. His explanation was simple. He said that they try to limit the tonnage per acre to less than 2 tons. He explained that the quality in Texas or lack thereof sometimes is a people / production issue, not a grape issue. After seeing what Inwood is able to produce, it would be hard to disagree. This is a long way to say, do yourself a favor and stop at Inwood for an incredible tasting. Mike Novack - October Facebook post

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There are tons more.





We're opening a 2017 Roy Piper tonight. What are you drinking?

"I understand (I guess) that it angers you that I see our wine as comparable to many in Napa. And you are not alone in that opinion."

-- there is no anger involved. Tastes differ, and I do not fault or disagree with your preferences. That's why it is a preference.

What I suggested was you dropped a t*** in the punch bowl, seemingly gratuitously.

And Piper is great. Opened a 2014 last week. Have his vintages back to 2012. The 17 is going to need a long decant. Roy recommended 1-8 hours for the 14. We let it go 2 before the first glass, and it improved even more by the last.

Not sure about tonight. Had a 2010 Notre Vin last night.

Oh --and I had a 2016 Hye Meadow Aglianico on Saturday . So I'm not a complete snob.

Total misinterpretation on your part. I meant it as a positive. It is now just one more tool in the precision winemakers toolbox. It can be used properly and can be use improperly and can be used when it shouldn't, just like any other tool.

When we were at Roy's in August he mentioned trying it now-ish.

We need a comparative for our 2017 Oentrepid (7 cab clones), so I'm drinking through various 17s at the same price point.

I don't have a dog in this discussion however I was curious about micro ox. A quick google show that it is indeed being used but kept fairly secret with the exact wineries.

https://www.totalwine.com/wine-guide/vinification/micro-oxygenation

https://napavalleyregister.com/wine/science-trumps-tradition-at-napa-wine-making-facility/article_6c10f3e8-cd0c-11df-8c49-001cc4c002e0.html

Would be interesting if someone like Dunn did it to speed up their aging process.

Like so much, Parker actually influenced it's use in Bordeaux. Once ratings became a sales lifeblood, it became tough for Bordeaux to produce a wine that really wasn't very good out of the barrel or very young. It would get rated on release. Sure "maybe" ten years or so later it would get rated again in it's prime, but Chateaux don't want to wait ten years to sell their wine. They want that higher rating now. So Micro ox became popular because it softened the wines and locked in the dark color Parker likes so much.

Austintm said:

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Stating that small Napa wineries are engaging in a practice that is viewed in a bad light, thus casting aspersion on a broad group of producers, is simply dirty pool.

And had you read my comment correctly (which you didn't), I said IF he named them, and it was not true, it would be libel. Reading comprehension helps.

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He even said it's no longer really viewed as a bad thing. And he DIDN'T name them so your "IF" is irrelevant.

MooreTrucker said:

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Austintm said:

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Stating that small Napa wineries are engaging in a practice that is viewed in a bad light, thus casting aspersion on a broad group of producers, is simply dirty pool.

And had you read my comment correctly (which you didn't), I said IF he named them, and it was not true, it would be libel. Reading comprehension helps.

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He even said it's no longer really viewed as a bad thing. And he DIDN'T name them so your "IF" is irrelevant.

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That was my point. I swear I cannot tell how many people actually took any advanced English classes. Read and comprehend, Moore

This is one of the more helpful uses of the "Ignore User" function. Set to 48 hours and "poof", the wine thread was returned to its former state.

Anyone taken advantage of any of the quarantine sales posted at Wine Berserkers? I've been interested in try more WA cabs and the JB Neufeld sale looks promising.

For those that live in Dallas, Sixty Vines is having a special this week, but you have to ask.

Order two entrees and get a bottle of wine free of their Vine Huggers wine on the tap. I'm not sure where their wine is sourced, but it's actually pretty decent for a daily drinker. Much better than the average house wine at most places.

I was able to get an appetizer, two pizzas, and Vine Huggers Cab for $41. Normally a bottle of Vine Huggers Cab alone would be $60 or so.

https://www.sixtyvines.com/menu/plano-tx/?utm_source=Fishbowl&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=Plano&utm_campaign=Earth_Day_4_20_2020

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EARTH WEEK WINE MENU

Receive a second, free bottle of wine in addition to the wine included in The Sixty kit or with any two a la carte menu items purchased. Tapped wine only, select options per day.

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That restaurant group (FrontBurner) has been really creative and aggressive with their quarantine to-go specials. Good for them.

Saw a bunch of new posts here and thought "Sweet, something big is going on! Is it tasting notes? Incredible Deals? What could it be to get this many people talking?" Then after opening it up, I decided to head over to the politics board.

I opened a bottle of Donum Pinot Noir tonight

Having an excellent rose from Oregon with dinner. Perfect for a hot day.

Had a bottle of 2016 Handwritten Pinot Noir last night. Really enjoyed it.

Nice. Very nice.

i think that is real reason micro-ox has become more popular. people dont have the capacity to store wine like they used to. more importantly though IMO, negotiants, retailers, etc. don't hold inventory like they used to. inventory turns are a KPI in almost every distribution company nowadays. the whole futures market on wine has been mostly undone with a few very notable exceptions. that has created the need for the wines to show well early. the consumer pool has gotten so much larger, but the layers that used to pre-qualify wines and properly introduce them to market have also been removed.

the process of introducing oxygen to the wine via micro-ox/sparging also has different impacts when used at different stages of the winemaking process. for example, during fermentation sparging the tanks feeds the yeast culture when traditional pumpover isnt the best course of action.

due largely to the need for the wine to test well early, critic palates and movement to barrel evaluation for scores, warming trends, lazy/subpar farming expertise, and rigid ego driven winemaking (with no formal education) style has led wines to become riper and riper. that has led to pH creeping up, thus depressing the ageability of the wines. it also at a point (above 4.0) makes the wine chemically unstable. SO2 dissolves at a much lower rate, further depressing ageability. it's like a whirlpool...

1) Overcroping in the vineyard slows phenolic development, causing fruit to have to hang longer to remove green tones which is considered a flaw in New World wines... pH moves from 3.5 towards 4 when it hits the winery. Dehydration sets in, spiking sugars during cold soak as raisens rehydrate. at some point that will cause the fermentation to die out before going dry. the typical solution to the solution having a 30+ BRIX is to add water to bring it down. Water has a pH of 7... what do you think that does to the pH profile in the tank?
2) Overripeness moves fruit from Red to Black with limited acid expression and brightness and sky high alc, but it can taste GREAT in barrel because it is as good as it will ever get six months after secondary fermentation
3) Addiction to the glamour of % of new oak and it's ability to cover subtle site-driven/winemaking flaws drives over extracting oak tannin, making the wine more one dimensional. too much of a good thing is no longer a good thing. the oak takes over the profile of the wine. since the wines are at 15% alc even after the water add and alc is a SOLVENT, the wine extracts more oak out of the barrels than a pH stable 14.5% wine would. ther's also no fruit to balance it out.
4) These wines go into bottle and will last 5-7 years before all that is left is abraisive oak tannin and high alcohol.
5) Vicous cycle continues... collectors are now opening 10 year old wines that are DOA. Boom goes the time bomb.

micro-ox is driving the car in the opposite direction. not generally going to be applicable in a lot of new-world scenarios, but there's a time and place for every tool and winemaking style. it's farming, so eventually a situation will come up where it's the right call for the right combination of factors.

Thanks Taylor! Much more complete and articulate than I could ever be, but spot on on every point.

Question: Are some of those high brix wines just not fermented to dryness (and a really high abv) and the resulting (and obvious) RS just a "feature" of the wine?

Speaking of big wines, we opened this last night.

Got a bottle of that myself. Been going through my Herman Story the last couple weeks. Really liked the 17 On The Road.

Aaaaannndd... How is it?

Well, it certainly didn't suck. But if you prefer Cote Rotie wines, you won't like this. It's a big and massive Syrah without being jammy. Lots of black fruits. I'd drink this now.

it's been a bit trendy lately for some of the folks that love ripe fruit pressing off "hot and sweet" if they arent going to go the extended masceration route. For those that dont know, that means leaving the fermented wine on skins for 30-90 days before starting malo fermentation. basically, they press off while the fermentation is still going solid and press it off at anywhere between 1-5 BRIX. The idea is to finish the wine outand take it to barrel dry, though.

From what i know, which to clarify i dont have an enology degree nor a winemaker title, i think most RS is added in the form of sugar extracts or mega purple. Mega purple adds color to poorly extracted wines but also carries a ton of sugar.

i'll ask marbue next week and let you know what he says...

just on a side note, if anyone ever has any technical questions i'm more than willing to run them by him. he teaches at the local college here, is classicaly trained and is obsessed with wines being technically sound.

Thanks. I would think that if the brix was high enough, some yeasts may not be able to ferment to dryness as the alcohol would kill it off before fermentation was complete, leaving RS in the wine.

Also, back to micro ox, I noticed you included feeding the yeast during fermentation. Should that really be included as micro ox? Seems like it would be just normal winemaking, especially for open bin fermentation where you don't pump over.

Thoughts?
https://www.denegoce.com/

"Bulk wine" but Cameron Hughes, Stagecoach Vineyard for $15/btl, well reviewed by the SF Chronicle. If I could order < a case I'd be pretty tempted to try it.

Haven't seen that offer yet. His first one was a $10/bottle of 2018 Napa cab ($55/bottle from winery he says)

" Appellation: 74% Napa Valley (vineyard sandwiched between Coombsville and Atlas Peak AVA's), 21% Coombsville, and 5% Rutherford."

Pretty cheap for all Napa fruit, will be interesting when people start receiving and trying them.

I signed up today and the Stagecoach deal was in my confirmation email. Not open yet but we'll see!

European Winemakers May Have to Turn a Billion Liters of Wine into Industrial Alcohol

the bulk market is completely flooded. i imagine the wine will be decent to good, depending on what they had to do to it. you may get green tones or some overextraction from the oak since they could have potentially gotten stuck with it trying to move it or no oak expression because they didnt even try to fold it in to their winemaking program. $15? that's a heck of a deal for tuesday night wine.

it's not going to be complete or have a lot of nuanced character, but if you trust the winemaker the price can't be beat. the only thing that would make me wary is if it was non-vinted. could end up with some 2017 smoked wine in it. these offers will be out there for 2018 juice since the crop was so heavy. may lack a little concentration or be a little green as well, but as long as they didnt do anything silly to it it's a no brainer to give it a shot.

@wtmartinaggie - check PM. Still looking to acquire a case or two of some older vintages that have aged well and maybe a little more polished with some time in the bottle. Thanks!

We did a Guigal tasting with MS Craig Claiborne tonight. These wines are awesome. They are drinking nice with a couple hours of air right now, and can age for the long haul. Interestingly enough, Craig's favorite wine from Guigal is their $15 Cote du Rhone.

Had a 2008 Delamotte with neighbors the other night. My wife also opened up a 2018 River Marie Sonoma coast chard and a white Rhne style blend from Ridge on Sunday. All were pretty damn good.

I drink the Guigal CdR all the time. It's in almost every one of my grocery store six packs.