I have the book on this but have yet to read it.

Speaking of books, and I know I've recommended it here before, but Wine & War is a great read.

Read Judgment of Paris

Good history of the beginnings of Napa, in addition to the tasting.

While I love "Bottle Shock" it's about 2% fact, 98% fiction.

Agree, "Wine and War" is a great read. Much better than "Monuments Men".

While we're talking books, here's some favorites. (Some I learned about from posts on this thread. Last time we all did this was many pages ago... )

Inventing Wine - A new history of one of the world's great pleasures.

Shadows in the Vineyard: The True Story of the Plot to Poison the World's Greatest Wine

The Billionaire's Vinegar: The Mystery of the World's Most Expensive Bottle of Wine

I Taste Red: The Science of Tasting Wine

The History of Wine in 100 Bottles: From Bacchus to Bordeaux and Beyond

BSD said:

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The Pott release started yesterday. I got a couple of each wine, except Turf War which was only a 12 case production. I just got one of those. Hopefully there won't be any more releases for a while because I am too full on wine and this stuff ain't doing my checkbook any favors!

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I jut got an email that I am in the next wave and my allocation will open next week, so hopefully there are still some good ones left!

Good read. Probably download the book.

BigAg95 said:

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BSD said:

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The Pott release started yesterday. I got a couple of each wine, except Turf War which was only a 12 case production. I just got one of those. Hopefully there won't be any more releases for a while because I am too full on wine and this stuff ain't doing my checkbook any favors!

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I jut got an email that I am in the next wave and my allocation will open next week, so hopefully there are still some good ones left!

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Just received mine as well. Thought I was done buying for the year, but I guess not...

Thanks, will read that next. Being fairly new to wine I felt like the Mondavi book was an excellent primer for me. Both Cesare and his son Robert played game changing roles in the US wine industry. The family dynamics were heartbreaking to learn about but that's just how it played out. The story about the pronunciation of the name "Mondavi" is kind of silly and a microcosm of the family issues in and of itself.

I actually enjoy Charles Krug wines quite a bit and learned about it through the book. I know it's a mega operation but still run by Peter Mondavi's family. That's kind of neat that it tracks back. The Robert Mondavi brand was sold and now run by mega corp Constellation.

If this is the book, then yeah! Great read. I love Mondavi using a blender to aerate his wine!

The House of Mondavi: The Rise and Fall of an American Wine Dynasty

And while we're at it the Certified Specialist of Wine coursebook is available via Kindle for about 20 bucks. To compare, all in on the official materials and test fee bumps up to $600.

Great resource for everything about wine. From the dirt to the wineries to all the world's appellations.

Read it straight through, or use like an encyclopedia.

2018 Certified Specialist of Wine Study Guide

My 2015 paper copied is dog eared and highlighted...

I've read both "Shadows in the Vineyard" and "House of Mondavi." Both are great reads. After "Judgement" I may pick up "Billionaires Vinegar"

I also have Olney's "Yquem" book as well as his book on DRC. The other DRC book I own is by Gert Crum. All of these are more reference books of the specific wineries rather than stories.

BSD said:

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I also have Olney's "Yquem" book as well as his book on DRC.

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Just ordered, thanks for the rec!

Of course browsing the "also" list, I ordered: Tokaji Wine: Fame, Fate, Tradition

BSD said:

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I've read both "Shadows in the Vineyard" and "House of Mondavi." Both are great reads. After "Judgement" I may pick up "Billionaires Vinegar"

I also have Olney's "Yquem" book as well as his book on DRC. The other DRC book I own is by Gert Crum. All of these are more reference books of the specific wineries rather than stories.

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I liked Billionaire's Vinegar a lot. Definitely recommend it.

Did anyone purchase Nine Suns new 100% cab? It was available yesterday, but sold out before I could get my order in today. I also would like to add, Nine Suns charges more for two-day shipping than anyone I've bought from. $112 for two-day shipping (it's either that or overnight) for 3-pack +1 mag.

Also, I notice once again this year that some producers are charging CA state sales tax on shipments to Texas while others or not. That is such B.S!

Stagecoach said:

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Did anyone purchase Nine Suns new 100% cab? It was available yesterday, but sold out before I could get my order in today. I also would like to add, Nine Suns charges more for two-day shipping than anyone I've bought from. $112 for two-day shipping (it's either that or overnight) for 3-pack +1 mag.

Also, I notice once again this year that some producers are charging CA state sales tax on shipments to Texas while others or not. That is such B.S!

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No it isn't. All retailers across the country are freaking the eph out about sales tax without a clue what to do since the Wayfair decision. It is a giant cluster eph, with 21 states currently granting amnesty if you register with them now, but California isn't one of them and they are now coming after anyone they can to make money.

No one knows what to charge, who should be charged what, or where to file the returns to pay the tax collected. It sucks.

Opened a 2016 Kirkland Gigondas. Probably the best wine in the Costco line. More fruit forward, but there's still a good amount of tannin and acid. One of the few $15 wines that you could lay down for a year or two.

We opened a 2012 Dos Cabezas El Campo. From Sonoita AVA in Arizona. Temp/Mourved blend with some other stuff. Pretty dang good! A bit more than $15, but still a good value.

ILikeTacos said:

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Stagecoach said:

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MDid anyone purchase Nine Suns new 100% cab? It was available yesterday, but sold out before I could get my order in today. I also would like to add, Nine Suns charges more for two-day shipping than anyone I've bought from. $112 for two-day shipping (it's either that or overnight) for 3-pack +1 mag.

Also, I notice once again this year that some producers are charging CA state sales tax on shipments to Texas while others or not. That is such B.S!

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No it isn't. All retailers across the country are freaking the eph out about sales tax without a clue what to do since the Wayfair decision. It is a giant cluster eph, with 21 states currently granting amnesty if you register with them now, but California isn't one of them and they are now coming after anyone they can to make money.

No one knows what to charge, who should be charged what, or where to file the returns to pay the tax collected. It sucks.

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Yes it is! And your reply confirms it as far as I'm concerned.

The government part of it is BS. Not so much the wineries. Wineries have to constantly be concerned with compliance on myriad governmental requirements from all levels.

FWIW, Larkmead did charge sales tax yesterday when I ordered.

And, although nobody ever did, even in the old pre-internet days, when we bought something from another state that didn't charge us sales tax, WE were supposed to pay the tax on it ourselves once received.

This article talks about the great grapes and harvest of 2018, but in the USA section, no mention of Texas wines. Texas is the #2, #4, or #5 (depending on who's ranking I guess) wine region in the US.

Why no love/talk of Texas wines? Not just on Vine Pair but Wine Folly, Marissa Ross, and others.

Wine Industry MetricsMooreTrucker said:

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This article talks about the great grapes and harvest of 2018, but in the USA section, no mention of Texas wines. Texas is the #2, #4, or #5 (depending on who's ranking I guess) wine region in the US.

Why no love/talk of Texas wines? Not just on Vine Pair but Wine Folly, Marissa Ross, and others.

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Wine Industry Metrics

The answer is in the charts on that link.

California produces 86% of US wine. Add in Wa/Or/NY and it's 96%.

In millions of cases:
Ca 286
Wa 15
Ny 12
Or 4.5
Tx 1.9

We're growing and we're producing (some) great, world class wines. However, we're not even a flea on the tail shaking the dog. Throw in the rest of the world, as does your link, and we're not a mite on the leg of the flea...

And... There's still a crap ton of "religion" left about producing good wine from other than the usual appellations. It'll take awhile, but hopefully we'll get there.

cecil77 said:

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Wine Industry MetricsMooreTrucker said:

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This article talks about the great grapes and harvest of 2018, but in the USA section, no mention of Texas wines. Texas is the #2, #4, or #5 (depending on who's ranking I guess) wine region in the US.

Why no love/talk of Texas wines? Not just on Vine Pair but Wine Folly, Marissa Ross, and others.

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Wine Industry Metrics

The answer is in the charts on that link.

California produces 86% of US wine. Add in Wa/Or/NY and it's 96%.

In millions of cases:
Ca 286
Wa 15
Ny 12
Or 4.5
Tx 1.9

We're growing and we're producing (some) great, world class wines. However, we're not even a flea on the tail shaking the dog. Throw in the rest of the world, as does your link, and we're not a mite on the leg of the flea...

And... There's still a crap ton of "religion" left about producing good wine from other than the usual appellations. It'll take awhile, but hopefully we'll get there.

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Keep in mind that of the 286mm cases that California produces, a SUBSTANTIAL amount of those are crap -- NVs, under $10-15, etc. Think about the cheap Gallo wines, and Mondavi (which, along with the nice Reserve/To Kalon cab pumps out the Woodbridge lines).

Would be interesting to see a chart of cases with a breakout of price per bottle (in ranges)

Quote:

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Keep in mind that of the 286mm cases that California produces, a SUBSTANTIAL amount of those are crap -- NVs, under $10-15, etc. Think about the cheap Gallo wines, and Mondavi (which, along with the nice Reserve/To Kalon cab pumps out the Woodbridge lines).

Would be interesting to see a chart of cases with a breakout of price per bottle (in ranges)

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True dat. And even more than you listed, Francia bag in a box, and those gallon jugs for three bucks!

I'll see what I can find. Think about this. It was just a year or so ago that the average retail price of a 750ml bottle of wine in the US reached ten dollars. The AVERAGE! (mean). Heck. $20+ is "premium" wine.

U.S. wine tops $10-a-bottle average for first time, expert says

Take a look at this break down by price point. $25+ is the highest category and it's 4.8% of bottles sold. Wine sales share in the United States in 2016, by bottle price range

One problem Texas does face right now, is that many of our grapes are priced well above their equivalent quality level in California. Then end result is decent Texas wines that compare to $15 Ca wines, but have $30 price tag on them. Over production is the main culprit, e.g. 8-12 ton/acre yields.

Which means less-than-optimal grapes?

MooreTrucker said:

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Which means less-than-optimal grapes?

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Yes, insufficient phenolic development. Sugar may be there, but not enough of the "good stuff" that makes for good wine. It's not a completely straight forward metric, but in general, lower yields tend towards higher phenolic ripeness. I think Napa shoots for 2.5-4 range most years. In 2015 they were 40%-70% off those yields. Bordeaux AOC is 3.7 or under (I think, going by memory) In contrast, much of West Texas is 8+.

"Optimal" is a price/production matrix. In 2015 when Napa had to go really low yield because of extended drought and heat (resulting in really early harvest) they complained that it's not an economically viable model to go under a ton per acre. Which is true given $500,000+/acre vineyards. Texas, on the otherhand, can go low (Equitas Vineyard west of Fredericksburg is architected to 1.5 or fewer.

Interesting, thanks. I may ask some of my grape-growing friends up here their thoughts on that.

MooreTrucker said:

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Interesting, thanks. I may ask some of my grape-growing friends up here their thoughts on that.

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I would be VERY interested. Thanks!

And please, I don't mean anything to be insulting to anyone, this is just "wine talk" discussion...

Oh I understand. I like the "wine talk" discussion. I want to learn all I can.

cecil77 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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Which means less-than-optimal grapes?

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Yes, insufficient phenolic development. Sugar may be there, but not enough of the "good stuff" that makes for good wine. It's not a completely straight forward metric, but in general, lower yields tend towards higher phenolic ripeness. I think Napa shoots for 2.5-4 range most years. In 2015 they were 40%-70% off those yields. Bordeaux AOC is 3.7 or under (I think, going by memory) In contrast, much of West Texas is 8+.

"Optimal" is a price/production matrix. In 2015 when Napa had to go really low yield because of extended drought and heat (resulting in really early harvest) they complained that it's not an economically viable model to go under a ton per acre. Which is true given $500,000+/acre vineyards. Texas, on the otherhand, can go low (Equitas Vineyard west of Fredericksburg is architected to 1.5 or fewer.

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Are you referencing clusters per vine? Love the discussion that you and Mooretrucker have had regarding Texas production.

I believe that certain Bordeaux regions produce well due to no irrigation and number of clusters per vine.

There are other factors involved, like french oak and not over filtering their wines, but the number of clusters for a grand cru is tightly controlled.

Yes, clusters/vine and tons/acre are both measures of vineyard production. Tons per acre is easier to compute. Clusters are counted on the vines as well during pruning and fruit drop.

It's a complicated subject in west Texas and I am far from an expert. Another factor in those high yield vineyards is that some contracts are priced upon $/ton, which is an incentive for growers to over produce. More and more, though, it's being shown that if you make good wine, it will be bought. Inwood's least expensive bottles are $50. Our newly released 2016 Magdelena (Margaux style Bordeaux blend) is at $80 and has been selling much faster than we may have anticipated. Heck, the reason we released it is that the current bottling run of 2015 Mericana Cabernet sold out at $100 per bottle.

LEAST expensive is $50? Man, I don't think I can afford to be in this thread.

Yeah, I know it's a bit much for many. But given what goes into it the price is justified. And more importantly to an evil capitalist, people buy it for that!

And really it makes our tasting a good value fifteen bucks for five wines that total $310!

cecil77 said:

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Yeah, I know it's a bit much for many. But given what goes into it the price is justified. And more importantly to an evil capitalist, people buy it for that!

And really it makes our tasting a good value fifteen bucks for five wines that total $310!

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Oh, I know. I really need to get back down there for a tasting to try wines like that to see what I'm missing and if my palate is even worth spending that much.

Found this hiding in the chiller today. I'm glad I found it. It's pretty exceptional. An old school Napa cab with some refinement and restrained elegance. Can easily go another two years. But if you have some, I'd give it a try now.

HTownAg98 said:

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Found this hiding in the chiller today. I'm glad I found it. It's pretty exceptional. An old school Napa cab with some refinement and restrained elegance. Can easily go another two years. But if you have some, I'd give it a try now.

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Didn't know he was a vintner

Nothing can hide in my cellar.
Self control is not my greatest attribute. Congrats on waiting that long!

Tonight I am drinking a 2004 warres LBV. Few bottles live to be that old in my house.