$90 and $50 Chardonnay! Wow.

Yup. Inwood's are $50.

And he's sold out of the $90 one.

I love a good Chard but (showing my palate immaturity here) have never thought any Chard (or frankly whites in general, bubbly maybe excluded) are worth >$50.

Try some of the Hermitage whites, and you may change your mind.

Elysian order in!

https://williammarywineco.com/pages/about.html

William and Mary website is up. It is a Napa cab made by Will Segui, a longtime assistant of Thomas Rivers Brown. Many of you know him as the guy who handles Rivers Marie purchases. This is his own label. Good wine. Good people. Enjoy!

Good thoughts.

Inwood's "Dallas County" Chard does not have MF, hence a "Chablis" style, so "crisp" or "steely". So many CA chards are "buttery, creamy, oaky" - from the diacetyl created during the MF process.

Note that virtually ALL red wines to have MF.

"I'm sure some of you don't believe this, as it contradicts all we've been told."

No $***. California's warm sunny days followed by super cool nights from the pacific air moving in was the whole reason I thought they were able to make great wine. The warm days get the sugar up and the cool nights let the acid catch up for a balanced winegrape. I saw it firsthand at Pisoni vineyard when I did a harvest back in 06 and Literally everything I know about wine is based on that, so hearing all you need to do is cut yields and you can grow great grapes in your suburban backyard is a little tough to wrap my head around. Super interesting though, I'm going to have to give some of these Texas wines more of a chance.

What is the best cellar app to use. would like for it to give recommendations on what to drink at a certain time frame.

I'm a fan of CellarTracker

Got a Scarecrow allocation today. Trying to decide. Just got some Myriad Dr. Crane yesterday.

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so hearing all you need to do is cut yields

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Bear in mind that I'm just in the very early learning stages, while Dan Gatlin is in his 37th growing season...

Although proper yield is crucial to phenolic development, other factors including clonal selection, vine spacing, vertical shoot positioning, canopy management, aspect, and moisture monitoring/control are also important.

I've not tried any, but there's a new Pinot released from High Plains grapes that's getting good reports. The notion that soil is important is really misunderstood. The physical properties of soil are important, mainly water management, but also heat management. Consider the famous Kimmeridgian Marl in Chablis and Champagne. It's a white, chalky formation that runs from the White Cliffs of Dover on into France. According to the "hallowed ground theory" it's a God given soil perfect for wines. Well, turns out that white soil is just great in northern France as it reflects more light/heat onto the ripening grapes. It's not magic. However when it comes to the chemical properties, there's just no scientific indication that it does anything. I know this is way different from the terroir and "sense of place" romance that we're told. It's just a very fuzzy subject. Here's two quotes, there's many more just like them:

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The relationship between soil chemistry and wine quality and individuality is in the main poorly
understood. In some quarters there is the belief that soil influences wine character because the vine takes up flavor compounds direct from the soil, but this viewpoint is totally unsubstantiated.
--- The Oxford Companion to Wine

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Some tasters believe that a soil's composition imparts its unique flavor characteristics to grapes and the wines made from them. For instance, it could be believed that grapes grown in chalky soil will yield a wine with a chalky character. However, there is as yet little scientific evidence to support this concept, and the topic remains a popular source of debate among wine enthusiasts.
--- 2017 CSW Study Guide

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There are some theories that bacterial differences in different soils can impact yeast formation and change fermentation in ways that impact flavor, but I don't know how well developed that is.

So why is one Burgundy vineyard block making $1,000 bottles and one 30 feet away making $75 dollar bottles? Clearly reputation is much of it. But there's also a theory that given the centuries of grape growth that growers have facilitated clonal development, to the point there are myriad subtle clonal differences.

Alan Rickman's soliloquy at the end of "Bottle Shock" is accurate. There's going to be great wine from all kinds of places!

Married an Aggie Lady said:

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cecil77 said:

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Good thoughts.

Inwood's "Dallas County" Chard does not have MF, hence a "Chablis" style, so "crisp" or "steely". So many CA chards are "buttery, creamy, oaky" - from the diacetyl created during the MF process.

Note that virtually ALL red wines to have MF.

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I think you hit it with "many". I'm pretty comfortable saying "most" still are aged in steel. Even when we live in CA malolactic was harder to find. Moving cask aged chardonnay to oak for a bit to change the wine's character I'm pretty sure was still done more often than malolactic fermentation. That's why oak is only a hint and not a tell.

The cask aged crisp acidic taste is the bulk of the market. Nothing wrong with that. I just tend to like the lesser traveled path a bit more. Wine is about differences more than uniformity. I hope knowing about this one difference helps someone find a good bottle of white wine that they may have otherwise overlooked.

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I would heartily disagree that crisp, acidic chardonnay makes up the bulk of the US market. Most US chardonnay is cheap mass produced grapes aged with oak chips to simulate oak barreling and impart a creamy and oakey flavor. they might be aged in steel but they ain't acidic, that's for sure.


The idea whites aren't as good as red, in general, is a US phenomenon primarily. Personally, I'm more than willing to pay $50 or more for very good chardonnay from makers such as Liquid Farm (some are less than $50), Aubert, Sandhi, Copain, Kistler, Bergstrom, etc. good chardonnay has amazing complexity and is great with food.

That's my experience as well.

Also, it's not all that easy to eliminate MF, as it can occur spontaneously in the winery. You've got to remove the grapes and ferment them in a place where no MF is present.

The Pitiful Selection of Wines Distributed in TexasHTownAg98 said:

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DTC is so popular in Texas because of all the other archaic alcohol laws in a state that is supposed to be such a business friendly state. I feel if we didn't have DTC, we would only be slightly better than the states with state run liquor stores.

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The Pitiful Selection of Wines Distributed in Texas

Well, that pisses me off as a wine-drinking Texan! Guess whoever said we're not THAT far above Pennsylvania's state-owned package stores isn't hyperbole.

So is it the Glazer/Spec's combo machine that's behind this?

Pennsylvania is an abomination when it comes to wine sales. At least NY and NJ are next door. The biggest Bdx importer/ distributor in the country is based out of Dallas. I am curious if his stuff is sold in the Texas. Each state has its own feudal code and it's hard to get started in the import and distrubor profession. I guess Texas is better than others states. At least you can ship CA wines into Texas. It is almost impossible to get anything into Montgomery County in MD. They even have employed authorities to hangout at the better wine stores in DC and VA and follow customers to the county line. I am glad I have the option of living in VA instead of MD.

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They even have employed authorities to hangout at the better wine stores in DC and VA and follow customers to the county line.

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Wow. Can't believe this crap still exists today. Eliot Ness wanna-be's,....

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They even have employed authorities to hangout at the better wine stores in DC and VA and follow customers to the county line

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So you can't buy wine for your personal use and then bring it home?

cecil77 said:

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The Pitiful Selection of Wines Distributed in TexasHTownAg98 said:

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DTC is so popular in Texas because of all the other archaic alcohol laws in a state that is supposed to be such a business friendly state. I feel if we didn't have DTC, we would only be slightly better than the states with state run liquor stores.

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The Pitiful Selection of Wines Distributed in Texas

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I posted info earlier about a bill that would change the Texas markets. See above and call your state legislator!

How long were you there? It sounds like a cool trip, but also like you'd need at least five days to make it worth it.

We flew in Monday morning, and left Thursday morning. We packed a lot into 2.5 days.

My MoCo wine friends in MD call it the people's republic of MoCo. All the wine and beersales are either through their stores or a single owned stores that buys direct through the county that means grocery chains can't sell beer except in a single store that might have change.No corkage at restaurants either. I am sure residents bring stuff across county lines, but it is absurd what they do to control a revenue stream.

BSD said:

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https://williammarywineco.com/pages/about.html

William and Mary website is up. It is a Napa cab made by Will Segui, a longtime assistant of Thomas Rivers Brown. Many of you know him as the guy who handles Rivers Marie purchases. This is his own label. Good wine. Good people. Enjoy!

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FYI, today is the release date. I believe it is $85 a bottle...refreshing for a new Napa release!!! I'll post a little more later...running late to work today yet posting on TA. Priorities, ya know!

You must have gotten the friends and family discount.

$110/bottle
$225/1.5L

haha. Nope, I'm paying full price. I don't know where I got that number (thought I saw that on another forum last week when I was on vacation).

Still, I've had this wine and I'll be buying several bottles. Will is good people. and Will makes good wine.

Edit: I figured out where I got that number...it is case production for '15. Oops! I was at Legoland last week. Details passed by by faster than the cash come out of my wallet and into the cash registers there. Will even put the release date in the email and I had to ask him when was release was. I'm an idiot...but you all knew that.

Like I said, I'm still a buyer of a few at $110. and I bought a mag.

BSD, is shipping included? I got as far as the credit card input page and never saw tax or shipping. I don't like the 3 bottle minimum on a new release one bit.

Also, what would you relate this wine too as far as other Napa cab profiles?

aggiejumper said:

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BSD, is shipping included? I got as far as the credit card input page and never saw tax or shipping. I don't like the 3 bottle minimum on a new release one bit.

Also, what would you relate this wine too as far as other Napa cab profiles?

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Sorry for the delay. I did not see a shipping charge so I think it's included. No tax since we're out of state.

As far as other Napa cabs that I've tried, I can't think of any off the top of my head. I know it's from the Schifflett Vineyard in Oak Knoll and several good producers pick from that specific vineyard. I believe Oak Knoll to be a cooler area of the valley. I think Piper picks from a nearby Oak Knoll vineyard, but he adds George III grapes now so I wouldn't compare it to his recent wines. But I think you'll be happy with William and Mary. If you're not, I'll take your other bottles!

Give Will a call the next time you're out there. As he's shown at RM, he's probably got the best customer service out there.

I understand BSD's support, but I personally find an initial release of a new wine over $100 to be kinda silly.

bularry said:

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I understand BSD's support, but I personally find an initial release of a new wine over $100 to be kinda silly.

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I agree, but that's the Napa paradigm now.