Just opened a bottle of Rubicon 2002 from our cellar. The first glass is tasting pretty good. Have finally been going back down to the cellar after a long break and it's fun pulling out something like this. I saw a 2003 so that might be the next one I pull up. Then I have to pull out some of the older Andrew Will Sorella bottles.

HTownAg98 said:

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Popped the cork on a 2013 Siduri Santa Rita Hills Pinot Noir tonight. If you can find this and it is under $30, buy all you can. This is a very expressive Pinot, but it isn't jammy or fruit dominate like some wines from this region can be.

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I find less jammy and fruity wines from Sta Rita Hills than I do any other california pinot/chardonay area. Maybe I'm just smarter about who I buy from in this area. Had some jam fests over the years from RRV, Sonoma Coast, Anderson valley, SLH, etc.

I'll keep an eye out for this Siduri. Generally, Adam's pinots are too "big" for my palate. I do love the Novy zin's, though.

Anybody else on the list for Lucia? Another label the Pisoni family does. Just sent out their Spring allocation.

I saw the allocation, have you tried the Soberanes Syrah 6?

I got the Scarecrow postcard...up to $330 a bottle. Ouch. I'm still getting a 3 pack and I usually keep two for myself (one goes to a good buddy) but this year I may just keep one.

and get this...mags are $1500. WTF?

Familiar with the wine, but not the price history and trajectory. Is there a point to where the market looks elsewhere for value so that it causes a plateau or even declining prices to reach an equilibrium? If so, how long do we think we'll see this trend continue?

It's already rated 100pts by Parker, hence the price increase. You could sell one and nearly pay for the other two. I'll buy my 3 pack but that's it.

Realm SVD's went up by a higher percentage this year and no one complained too much.

I complained about Realm...under my breath. It had long been a "value" in comparison to other wines in those vineyards. No longer. The Moonracer bottle was quite surprising to me. I hope it lives up to the price.

As far as Scarecrow, I remember them saying years ago that they wanted to be a wine that people could afford. That ended quickly after their first good score when they basically doubled their price. Or maybe they just know different people than me that think these prices are "values."

Here are Scarecrow prices since 2009.

2009- $250
2010- $250
2011- $250
2012- $285
2013- $300
2014- $330 (32% increase since 2011 vintage)

I guess if there is ever a time to raise your price, a few 100 point scores is the right time to do it.

Like there's any cost justification for those prices, but 2014 and 2015 were low yield years, so their costs were. I'll be interested to see Myriad's prices. Mike has shown some integrity with leaving Elysian at $175.

They could possibly use low crop vintages as an excuse, but I've never seen a Napa winery lower prices when vintages are bountiful. They just raise prices whenever it is possible, not that's there's anything wrong with that. Back to back 100 point scores is as good a time as any.

Hopefully Mike stays the same! I may drop Realm Crane and just stick with him.

BSD said:

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They could possibly use low crop vintages as an excuse, but I've never seen a Napa winery lower prices when vintages are bountiful. They just raise prices whenever it is possible, not that's there's anything wrong with that. Back to back 100 point scores is as good a time as any.

Hopefully Mike stays the same! I may drop Realm Crane and just stick with him.

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He made a point of saying how frustrated he was with vineyard owners trying to set price floors. He said he'd fight higher prices as long as he could to make the wine available to as many as possible.

I ordered a 2015 Soberanes Syrah, a 2015 Soberanes Pinot and a 2015 Santa Lucia Highlands Pinot plus 3 bottles of the Lucy Rose'. Have had plenty of Syrah from Susan's Hill and Garys' but not Soberanes before.

Quote:

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I've never seen a Napa winery lower prices when vintages are bountiful.

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I laughed. Thanks for that.

BSD, I did the same this year, no Realm Crane for me and will buy more of Mike's two Crane wines instead. Only Realm" Tokalon, white wine, and the blends for me now.

I bet Realm Moonracer is great but not for that tariff, Hartwell made wine last year and were made by the same wine maker and same vineyard, I think the reserve was around $100. Easy pass, I'm sure it's the nostalgic value but still...

I bought one Moonracer. Hopefully I'll try it in April when I'm out there. If it's not great, it's cut from the list, especailly at that price. I dont even know if I'll stick with their To Kalon since I'm buying Macdonald and Schrader. I really just dont drink that much anymore and while Realm is a sentimental favorite (I've been buying from them for a looooong time), I need to cut back somewhere. I may just buy the Pritchard Hill and Farella from there.

Y'all are well beyond my budget. I did order one each of Farella and Houyi.

The dangerous calculation is: Say 350 bottles of wine per year, one most nights split with the wife, plus a few special occasions and parties. Now pick an average bottle price and multiply by 350 for an annual cost...

Nah, forget it. Spectacularly bad idea.

Could be worse Cecil, you could be drinking a bottle each. Gotta love first world problems. =p

In other money saving news...Tomorrow starts Twin Liquor's dollar sale (through Sunday).

cecil77 said:

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Y'all are well beyond my budget. I did order one each of Farella and Houyi.

The dangerous calculation is: Say 350 bottles of wine per year, one most nights split with the wife, plus a few special occasions and parties. Now pick an average bottle price and multiply by 350 for an annual cost...

Nah, forget it. Spectacularly bad idea.

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I was about to say the same and unfollow. I prefer the $20-$150 range.

Thriller said:

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Familiar with the wine, but not the price history and trajectory. Is there a point to where the market looks elsewhere for value so that it causes a plateau or even declining prices to reach an equilibrium? If so, how long do we think we'll see this trend continue?

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I've thought about this as well, and I wonder if the baby boomers are driving the prices for high-end luxury products like wine. They're in their peak wealth years right now, but that won't always be the case.

Millennials are drinking Argentinian Malbec, Provance Rose, and Prosecco. Napa Cabs and Chards are so far out of reach, by the time they can afford it will they even care?

There will always be a market for ultra-premium wine, but I wonder where these prices will be in 10 years. Alpha Omega now has SIX $225 Cabernet's, Signorelo entry level cab was $60 five years ago, now its $90. Is this natural inflation, or a bubble, a la Bordeaux with the Chinese?

Lots of articles in the trade journals on this subject. And a wildcard is legal marijuana.

brownguy81 said:

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Thriller said:

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Familiar with the wine, but not the price history and trajectory. Is there a point to where the market looks elsewhere for value so that it causes a plateau or even declining prices to reach an equilibrium? If so, how long do we think we'll see this trend continue?

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I've thought about this as well, and I wonder if the baby boomers are driving the prices for high-end luxury products like wine. They're in their peak wealth years right now, but that won't always be the case.

Millennials are drinking Argentinian Malbec, Provance Rose, and Prosecco. Napa Cabs and Chards are so far out of reach, by the time they can afford it will they even care?

There will always be a market for ultra-premium wine, but I wonder where these prices will be in 10 years. Alpha Omega now has SIX $225 Cabernet's, Signorelo entry level cab was $60 five years ago, now its $90. Is this natural inflation, or a bubble, a la Bordeaux with the Chinese?

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Way too expensive for the quality of wine they are offering. I drink European wines that cost much less and have

the same quality or better.

Sorry if changing the subject a bit here, but had a pretty great tasting this past weekend in NYC. I was able
to snag a spot at the Rieslingfeier tasting, an event put on by Stephen Bitterolf of vom Boden Imports to showcase the 2015 Riesling vintage from German and Austrian producers (with a few other vintages thrown in for comparison).

Most of the winemakers were also in attendance to pour their wines and answer questions. Each winemaker poured 3-4 wines. I tasted nearly 50 wines but these were my favorites (those labeled *** were my absolute favorites):

Alzinger - Loibner Loibenberg Smaragd Riesling 2015
Frantz Hirtzberger - Singerriedel Smaragd Riesling 2015
Eva Fricke - Schlossberg Riesling 2015
Weingut Josef Leitz - Rudesheim Berg Rottland GG 2015
Weingut Josef Leitz - Rudesheim Berg Schlossberg GG 2015 ***
J.B. Becker - Wallufer Walkenberg Kabinett Trocken Riesling 2014
J.B. Becker - Wallufer Berg Bildstock Kabinett Riesling 2008 ***
Von Winning - Forster Pechstein GG Riesling 2015 *** (This was my favorite of the tasting. Really incredible.)
Donnhoff - Oberhauser Leistenberg Kabinett Riesling 2015
Donnhoff - Neiderhauser Hermannshohle Spatlese Riesling 2015
Schlossgut Diel - Dorsheimer Goldloch GG 2015
Weingut Beurer - Stettener Pulvermacher GG 2014 ***
Weingut Beurer - Junges Schwaven QbA Riesling 2010
Weingut Clemens Busch - Marienburg Rothenphad GG 2014 ***
Selbach-Oster - Zeltinger Himmelreich Auslese Riesling 2006
Vollenweider - Felsenfest Riesling 2015
Vollenweider - Schimbock Riesling 2013 *** (3-day skin contact Riesling. Very good)
Scholss Lieser - Leiser Neiderberg Helden Spatlese Riesling 2002
Hofgut Falkenstein - Neidermenniger Sonnenberg Spatlese Feinherb Riesling 2015 ***
Egon Muller - Scharzhof Riesling 2015

All the wines from these winemakers were very good across the board and I would recommend any of these producers to you should you run across wines from any of them. Cheers!

That's a lot of riesling! Nice.

that is awesome, and a nice change of pace for this thread. I know very little about the wine so if anyone has a good reference for beginners, please let me know.

jrweinberger said:

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Sorry if changing the subject a bit here, but had a pretty great tasting this past weekend in NYC. I was able
to snag a spot at the Rieslingfeier tasting, an event put on by Stephen Bitterolf of vom Boden Imports to showcase the 2015 Riesling vintage from German and Austrian producers (with a few other vintages thrown in for comparison).

Most of the winemakers were also in attendance to pour their wines and answer questions. Each winemaker poured 3-4 wines. I tasted nearly 50 wines but these were my favorites (those labeled *** were my absolute favorites):

Alzinger - Loibner Loibenberg Smaragd Riesling 2015
Frantz Hirtzberger - Singerriedel Smaragd Riesling 2015
Eva Fricke - Schlossberg Riesling 2015
Weingut Josef Leitz - Rudesheim Berg Rottland GG 2015
Weingut Josef Leitz - Rudesheim Berg Schlossberg GG 2015 ***
J.B. Becker - Wallufer Walkenberg Kabinett Trocken Riesling 2014
J.B. Becker - Wallufer Berg Bildstock Kabinett Riesling 2008 ***
Von Winning - Forster Pechstein GG Riesling 2015 *** (This was my favorite of the tasting. Really incredible.)
Donnhoff - Oberhauser Leistenberg Kabinett Riesling 2015
Donnhoff - Neiderhauser Hermannshohle Spatlese Riesling 2015
Schlossgut Diel - Dorsheimer Goldloch GG 2015
Weingut Beurer - Stettener Pulvermacher GG 2014 ***
Weingut Beurer - Junges Schwaven QbA Riesling 2010
Weingut Clemens Busch - Marienburg Rothenphad GG 2014 ***
Selbach-Oster - Zeltinger Himmelreich Auslese Riesling 2006
Vollenweider - Felsenfest Riesling 2015
Vollenweider - Schimbock Riesling 2013 *** (3-day skin contact Riesling. Very good)
Scholss Lieser - Leiser Neiderberg Helden Spatlese Riesling 2002
Hofgut Falkenstein - Neidermenniger Sonnenberg Spatlese Feinherb Riesling 2015 ***
Egon Muller - Scharzhof Riesling 2015

All the wines from these winemakers were very good across the board and I would recommend any of these producers to you should you run across wines from any of them. Cheers!

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Many of those are from the Mosel Region. I was thinking of heading up there in a couple of weeks.

Were most of them dry or half dry?

Wow. What an experience! Jealous.

On a slightly different note, there's a bill in Austin that would require 100% Texas grapes to appellate a bottle of wine "Texas". Federal law requires only 75%, but California, Oregon and Washington require 100%.

I think it's a good thing. However some of the larger wineries in Texas, that produce large volumes of wine, don't want to because they will have to start using the "American" appellation on many of their wines, so some big money is fighting it.

The link is for a change.org petition supporting the more restrictive use of the "Texas" appellation.

Support the Texas Wine Industry

The price discussion is pretty interesting.

One thing that "we people" have a hard time wrapping our heads around is that the average price for a bottle of wine is under ten bucks. Above twenty starts being "upscale". Here's links to a smattering of articles that may be of interest.

The Premiumization Backlash

https://www.merryjane.com/news/weed-vs-wine

http://napavalleyregister.com/wine/strong-competition-in-wine-sales-will-increase/article_152f0e2e-1088-5cea-be5b-26568680fc80.html

http://napavalleyregister.com/wine/columnists/paul-franson/premium-boxed-wines-growing-fast/article_910c83a6-8084-5671-b289-f1dbfe5cc67d.html?utm_source=Afternoon+Brief&utm_campaign=e9600622ad-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_02_10&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_778166e558-e9600622ad-64951841

Most of the wines that I tried were dry, but there were a handful that were either half-dry or sweet.

Are you industry? Just curious as to how one gets to do that sort of thing!

I'd also be interested in a more comprehensive source on Riesling (specifically German Riesling) if anyone has one that they like -- most of what I read I find on the internet or when looking up something specific in my Oxford Companion to Wine but I don't have anything very comprehensive or exhaustive on the subject.

Nope not industry, just a hobby. I heard Stephen Bitterolf talk about Rieslingfeier on the "I'll Drink to That" podcast a little while back. It sounded interesting so I checked the website to see when Rieslingfeier 2017 would be. I basically just got lucky that it happened to be going on the same weekend I was already planning a trip to NYC. I had heard that the tasting sessions fill up fast so I just got on the email waiting list to be notified when the tickets where available and bought one the day they went on sale.

The Riesling event in NYC is held every year. They get great juice and winemakers.on my bucket list. Johannesburg Selbach was in DC the evening before and he poured 7 outstanding Rieslings. Great learning experience for me. Did anyone go to Pinot in the city at the end of Jan?

I mostly lurk and enjoy all the wine knowledge and recommendations. I need to know if I have several thousand dollars of damaged wine. Arrived at the house tonight after a week away to find my wine cooler with a F2 code and semi frozen up. I unplugged and then reconnected 10 minutes later and the temp was reading 36 degrees F. How bad of a disaster do I have?

Only one way to find out. Pop the cork and test a bottle. If they weren't freezing for an extended period of time, you should be fine. 36 isn't that cold. I think my fridge is 35 and I've left bottles in there for months.