I must have given MM too much credit, I was thinking they were bottling at 6-7 years, rather than the barely legal 4 year mark...

http://youtu.be/wTVI2l5WjO8

I'm not quite sure where you are getting the 4 year claim. This video at least shows the process of maturing it - 6.5yrs to make regular MM, another 4months with these different wood staves

Mathguy, feel free to ship me your bottle I might just like more complex tasting bourbons - FR single barrel is too mellow for me, I'd probably be one of the guys who likes Stagg Jr neat as well

Good to jump in the conversation with you fellas

quote:

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Mathguy, feel free to ship me your bottle I might just like more complex tasting bourbons - FR single barrel is too mellow for me, I'd probably be one of the guys who likes Stagg Jr neat as well

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FRSB isn't a big, bold, slap yo mamma style bourbon, but I have never found it lacking for complexity. A lot of the flavors are a bit on the lighter side, but they play well with each other.

I do enjoy Stagg Jr neat at times, but I think it takes a little water for all of the flavors to come out. Bookers is one of the higher proof bourbons I love neat. I think you lose a bit of complexity, but the flavors you do get are just so bold and rich.

Anyone came across a Bookers 25th? I'm hearing a few stores in Dallas received a case and the Goody Goody in Humble had a bottle or so.

Came across the Booker's anniversary today at a store. I was looking for Old Blowhard or Barterhouse. He was $200 for his Bookers. I didn't buy it.

you were looking for Old Blowhard or Barterhouse and passed on Bookers 25th?

Yeah I know. Kick me in my rear but my budget is depleted and I only had so much cash on me. My wife saw our AMEX bill last fall from all of the PVW that I bought.

I would pass on $200 as well. If you are close to San Antonio I can help you out with the Orphans.

FriedTex,

They don't age all of their barrels to 6.5 years. Some maybe... some as early as 4 years based on tasting.

In any event, my point was that there business model is to pull it from the barrels as soon as possible. They don't have any interest in aging 10-12 years. In fact, they offer a tasting of 4 MMs on the tour: (a) white dog (b) MM (c) M46 and (d) an "over-aged" MM. They tried to make the point that leaving the product in the barrel for 12 years or longer is not a good thing. They made this statement ignoring superior products that age that long or longer.

So, whether its 4 years or 7 years (the truth is both are correct), MM won't be making a 10-12 yr bourbon anytime soon.

^^^ my guess is that for their "overaged" sample they pull the worst barrels possible in the least desirable part of the rick house to try and convince people that older isn't better. I think certain Weller products have debunked their theory.

When I toured the bourbon trail a couple of years ago MM noted they pulled to taste in the 4.5 to 5.5 range. They claimed the barrel rotation they do makes it possible to get mass amounts of even product that way. That's their market plan and they are sticking to it.

Both BT and HH made the comment that long term aging in the 15-20 year range is difficult ( and over 20 takes exceptional knowledge and skill) and that unless you really know what you are doing in terms of rick house management and barrel placement you just end up with heavy oak taste that is not pleasant.

That makes a lot of sense mathguy

Did they mention how often they move the barrels? They might be the only big distillery rotating barrels as I don't recall hearing about that practice often.

That is pretty consistent with the information I got this past October. I also got the impression they were rotating barrels quite frequently. They had an elevator in the rickhouse for moving barrels up and down. I suspect there were barrel rails on each level to facilitate movement to the elevators. Quite a bit of work, but probably necessary to get barrels aged to their taste every 4 - 6 years.

Josh,

Their "overaged" sample was not overtly bad. Certainly not good, but I am certain you are correct... they intentionally pull a sample from a barrel that was left in a part of the rickhouse to long just to make a point for their business model.

I believe they are the only one rotating all of their barrels. IIRC it takes about 5 months.

I visited 10 distilleries in October. Makers was the only of those 10 that mass-rotated barrels. So, I believe you are correct.

After wading through y'all's recommendations picked up a bottle of Elijah Craig 12yr today

But while at the liquor store I noticed a bottle of Old Blowheart and Barterhouse 'orphan barrels' for 187 and 88 respectively

Any good? Is that a good price? (Link below suggests otherwise)

http://www.kentucky.com/2014/03/16/3144062/diageo-raids-warehouses-for-orphan.html

I took a gamble and picked up a Barterhouse for $69. The other bottle, well the name says it all...

Bourbon and Banter didn't have much good to say about them. Specs in Austin is loaded up with them. I opted for a JPS 25 Rye instead.

I don't think my wife nor my wallet are able to deal with 180 bucks for a bottle

I wish I would have held off... found 2 bottles of Handy today. Paid a pretty penny, but couldn't resist my favorite this year.

antique collection is still out there!

Or they did a second/spring release.

I am saying bottles from the fall are still on shelves

quote:

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So, how does Four Roses get away with “10 recipes?” It works like this:

The company has two standard mashbills, a blend of grains used for fermentation. These are normally closely guarded secrets. The two mashbills are “OE:” 75% corn, 20% rye, and 5% barley. And “OB:” 60% corn, 35% rye, and 5% barley. That OB mashbill is a whole lot of rye for a bourbon.
To these two mashbills, the company adds five different strains of yeast, fermenting and aging them separately. Each yeast adds a much different character to the final spirit.
Do the math: 2 mashbills x 5 yeasts = 10 recipes.
After they’re aged, Four Roses then blends these various recipes into its final bourbons, with hundreds of combinations available.
And that’s why various Four Roses bottlings taste so different from one another. Four Roses Single Barrel is made exclusively from OB mash with “V” yeast, and I find it to be a very hot bourbon, where that rye content really comes through. Four Roses Small Batch is made from half OE and half OB, with each of those fermented with “K” and “O” yeast. The result is a wildly different whiskey, with an amazing balance of sweet and spice and a lush finish.

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http://www.drinkhacker.com/2010/10/01/drinking-bourbon-with-four-roses-master-distiller-jim-rutledge/

They were the fall releases still on the "shelf". Hidden in the back by the owner waiting for somebody to ask. I asked and he took advantage of me!

So back in Texas for the weekend visiting the in laws - had my BIL pick up a bottle for us to split. He picked up 1835 out of Ft. Worth, gotta say I'm really impressed with it for the price

Walked into a liquor store yesterday and they had two bottles of TH Handy on the shelf.

So did you procure them?

Thought about it but passed. Don't care for anymore Handy.

How much were they selling the Handy for?

$199

At $199 it's going to sit there forever.

$199.