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THE BEER THREAD

7,677,252 Views | 62649 Replies | Last: 7 hrs ago by steve00
NColoradoAG
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New Belgium started running TV commercials this summer

http://beerpulse.com/2013/05/new-belgium-brewing-television-commercials-will-run-in-twelve-markets-this-summer-385/
62strat
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AG
quote:
opening a tap room in an industrial park and hoping to generate enough traffic to make it.

They are within 5 miles of probably hundreds of thousands of people. While road visibility alone would not have sufficed for them due to that location, the anticipation of a new brewery, having the beer in the market, and then opening the tap room and watching people flock in seemed to work fine, and probably done with little to no cost.

I'll say it again, I think craft beer is a very unique industry in that regard. The word of mouth aspect is enormous.
62strat
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AG
RE: commercials: this is obviously only cost effective with the big dogs. They stand to get huge amounts of new beer drinkers nation wide. Someone like no label would be wasting their time and money with that.

There is a huge disparity between those top 4 or 5 and the rest.

W/o even looking i know that N.B. is advertising for Fat Tire. it's 50% of their revenue, and it's accessible to macro beer drinkers. Huge gains to be made on that investment.

Damn all this talk about beer has got me thirsty.

[This message has been edited by 62strat (edited 8/21/2013 4:41p).]
jh0400
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AG
I'm not arguing Karbach's success. My main point of contention is that I do not believe that the ability to open a tap room will be significant enough to make a currently nonviable enterprise viable.

An example that comes to mind is Fort Bend Brewing. I met one of their field reps at Hendricks, and he was pouring samples of their beer. It's not bad. I've actually looked for it the past few times I've bought beer to drink at home, and it isn't available. If you can't at least get into some of the larger Spec's neighborhood stores, then there is a problem with the distribution model. Opening a tap room in Rosenberg won't fix that.
jh0400
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AG
quote:
Someone like no label would be wasting their time and money with that.


But they still have to be able to compete head-to-head for customers with Tenth and Blake, which has all of the resources of MillerCoors behind it.
NColoradoAG
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Ill chime in

quote:
I'm not arguing Karbach's success. My main point of contention is that I do not believe that the ability to open a tap room will be significant enough to make a currently nonviable enterprise viable.


If taproom sales are a cornerstone of your business model, the cliche "location, location, location," is still the most important factor. IMO, not focusing on tap room sales is very short sided. The margins and control over your product alone are reason enough to consider a good tap room space. You can do well in the right location with average beers.

There are tons of crappy breweries in Denver that survive simply because they capitalized on serving an untapped neighborhood. Denver Beer Company comes to mind first. I have yet to drink a beer there that is even average. Yet, the place is constantly packed because they built a really nice taproom in the perfect location at the perfect time. The "scenery" at Denver Beer Co is second to none.

A local example for me is Crabtree Brewing. When they first opened, they were in a terrible part of town. The typical startup brewery location: industrial, lots of vacant areas, and off the beaten path but still as close as possible to foot traffic. Crabtree did alright there for several years. They distributed most of their beer because they thought that's how it should be done, and because they couldnt put any butts in the taproom seats. Fast forward five years and they have moved to a much better location near several shopping areas and major thoroughfares. They are no longer brewing any standard beers in six pack offering. They can a few batches here and there, but well above half of the revenue is now taprooms sales. It's packed Thursday-Sunday. They made, and still do make pretty average standard offerings. They do make some pretty good small batch items. It's amazing what the right location can do.

[This message has been edited by NColoradoAG (edited 8/21/2013 5:12p).]
The Beer and I
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Was trying not to buy beer this week. Then Whole Foods put Icon Gold and Sculpin on tap. I guess these 2 growlers don't really count.

[This message has been edited by The beer and i (edited 8/21/2013 7:36p).]
wessimo
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AG
11th St kroger has a bunch of CoF (6 cases, no limit) , FW wookie jack and double jack, icon gold, and sixers of BP sculpin and big eye.
62strat
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AG
Noco, I had lone tree brewing in mind for my train of thought. They are located near park meadows. Enough said. The beer is decent, but their tasting room is generally full. They do very little distribution, and I'd guess none outside of front range. But they've upsized equipment recently and expanded already (built a big patio), surely due to taproom sales.
jkn09
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AG
HEADS UP: Apparently World Market is running 30% off beer for the rest of the month. I usually don't buy there, but occasionally it's worth a gander.
AlaskanAg99
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AG
In thinking more about this, TX and namely Houston does not have an established craft beer scene yet. San Diego County (the coastal areas) is roughly the same size as Houston. ie I can get anywhere in about an hour.

SD County has 72 breweries as of right now:

http://www.westcoastersd.com/sd-brewing-industry-watch/

With 39 more in planning/opening stages. Imagine if Houston had 50 breweries. Whole niche business have popped up such as Beer Tours and there is almost a beer event per weekend out here.

What has happened is a shift, absolutely no one here opens a brewery without a tasting room because of the revenue they'll miss out on. Even if you have a bare bones budget it costs next to nothing to dedicate a small amount of space to pour beer for those that walk in.

Now...not all of these breweries are making good beer, some with high profile spots are making average beer and there's a concerted effort to educate people as to what good beer is. This breweries will contract and die off as several are head scratchers as to how they're still in business.

TX brewing scene is still in its infantcy, now that breweries have the ability to sell tasters/pints directly that's a huge step. Self distribution and to-go sales are next. Once that happens and breweries can realize higher profits by direct sales, it'll open doors.

Brewing great beer is the next step.
jh0400
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AG
quote:
In thinking more about this, TX and namely Houston does not have an established craft beer scene yet


The problem with Houston specifically is that there is nowhere to put them unless they are out in the suburbs or in an area where no one is going to visit them at night.
62strat
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AG
I don't know why Houston would be any different than any other city. Denver has them downtown, near town, in the burbs, and in the mountains.

Pick a shopping center with an open spot along BW, 290, 610, westheimer, washington or a warehouse like karbach. People will come. The demand is as high as it's ever going to be right now with so few establishments. There's like 1 brewery per million people, if that, in that metro. That's off the charts. It will only lessen as the laws loosen.

dave99ag
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AG
I went on two brewery tours in Seattle and Vancouver recently. Pretty interesting concept. A tour guide picks you up in a van and takes you to three different breweries for about an hour each. I think it's a great concept for cities with enough breweries in close proximity to each other. Houston is so large that it would be hard to hit up some of the smaller ones on the periphery. I guess you could do St. Arnolds (big guy), Karbach (getting bigger) and one small startup. If that niche hasn't happened in Houston, it will soon. I think it's a great way to see what a city has to offer and I plan on doing that for a few upcoming trips: San Francisco and DC.
jh0400
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AG
quote:
Pick a shopping center with an open spot along BW, 290


That's the suburbs.

quote:
westheimer, washington or a warehouse like karbach.


Rent along Washington or Westheimer ITL would make it extremely difficult to be profitable, and most of the warehouse space that I'm familiar with is in pretty rough areas.
jh0400
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AG
quote:
I guess you could do St. Arnolds (big guy), Karbach (getting bigger) and one small startup.


Karbach to Buffalo Bayou to Saint A would make sense as long as the breweries were open to it.
62strat
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AG
the brewery tour concept is in denver too. They'll bring you all the way out to boulder and longmont. that's like driving to clear lake and then galveston.

JH0400, why don't you think a tap room could work in the suburbs? To me, it makes plenty sense.. lots of people live in the burbs.. they are driving home, they stop by their local taproom for a couple beers.

Rockwells is out there; they have a large customer base of craft beer drinkers that live around that area.

Craft beer doesn't have to be in the city.. though I'm sure most ITL houston people would like to have it that way to claim it their own.
the 3 of the 4 biggest breweries in Houston (karbach, no label, southern star, no particular order) are not 'ITL'.

Mellow mushroom opened up recently near Klein High school. They are very beer focused.

i don't even know where this conversation is going.. but as someone said earlier, not opening a tap room after a small establishment of brand is a huge loss of potential revenue.

Do you consider karbach in a rough area? I would, and their tasting room is chock full every weekend isn't it?

[This message has been edited by 62strat (edited 8/22/2013 1:14p).]
Head Ninja In Charge
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AG
Haha. Nobody is more down to ride for the suburbs than 62strat.
jh0400
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AG
quote:
Do you consider karbach in a rough area? I would, and their tasting room is chock full every weekend isn't it?


They're also done by 7 pm. Unless I'm misunderstanding the hours of operation for a tap room, that's kind of early to shut it down.
62strat
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AG
quote:
They're also done by 7 pm. Unless I'm misunderstanding the hours of operation for a tap room, that's kind of early to shut it down.


Odell's, one of the largest breweries in the country, has a taproom that is 11-6 M-Th and 11-7 on Fri/Sat.

And it's jam packed for those last couple hours during the day. I assume at lunch too, since it's in a small town.

Time will tell.. I guess we can only wait to see how many taprooms open up and don't make it because they have an empty room during happy hour and weekends. I don't imagine it being a very big list, if a list is born at all.
62strat
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HNIC.. hey, I'm a suburb guy. Luckily where I live now, there doesn't seem to be an imaginary border that separates the 'I think we're cool' from the 'they think they are so cool'.

Except for maybe boulder, a 'suburb' of denver.

I like my suburb beer.. dry dock, lone tree, tommyknocker; can even call left hand, upslope, avery, oskar blues, etc.. beer from the 'denver' suburbs.
Add Breckenridge to that list when they finish their new facility.



[This message has been edited by 62strat (edited 8/22/2013 2:17p).]
AlaskanAg99
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AG
Most, if not all, of the tasting rooms out here are required to shut down by 9 or 10pm. Usually the former because as a light industrial facility they are not a 'bar'. I don't know any tasting rooms that are open late, at least legally with a Type 23 license.

Tasting rooms also cannot sell guest beer, only what they make. Now, if you have a brewpub license, then you can sell food and guest taps including your own. But...a Type 23 license is issued and regulated by the state, a brewpub license also has permitting done by the city its in, which drives up cost.

To skirt around the no-food at tasting rooms, food trucks roll up, all sorts of high end and high priced fare. Generally I don't think they're worth it, but many allow you to bring your own food in as well, so long as you clean up after yourself.

Breweries can operate within the subburbs if they're tasting rooms are busy, after all, they're making the most return on beers sold in house. Then suppliment that with beer sold into distribution.

If you add in bottles-to-go (or growlers) as well as self-distribution then yes, a brewery can make it in a higher priced area. They're doing that already everywhere. But...you have to give them the means, and that includes changing the laws for self-distro and selling bottles-to-go. TX isn't quite there yet.

Finally, you have to make good solid well crafted beer. If you're making ****, you'll fail.
NColoradoAG
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A plethora of quality taprooms all over the front range with varying styles, amount of offerings, and hours is reason #437 why I will never leave Colorado.
BSD
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AG
Screw all this business talk. This is what I'm talmbout. Titties and beer!!!!!!!

dave99ag
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AG
I think that's something we all can get behind or in front of.
62strat
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AG
quote:
Finally, you have to make good solid well crafted beer. If you're making ****, you'll fail.

Unless you are Old Mill Brewery in Littleton, CO.

They make some crap beer that's always flat (literally, zero bubbles or head every time), and it's only $1 everyday after like 8, and that place just seems immune to failure. It's been there for decades.

crazy.
Head Ninja In Charge
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Shoutout to wessimo. Grabbed two Wookey Jacks from Kroger on my lunch break.

Also, if anyone is looking for Oatmeal Yeti in Houston, Growlers Montrose has them.
La Fours
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AG
BSD, saw that on facebook and my mouth started watering.
La Fours
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I'm pretty stoked. I have a bottle of Cantillon in a suitcase right now with my name on it. Hopefully it survives the flight back from Paris. I have 2 bottles of Ranger Creek Small Batch #6 on my door step courtesy of a friend in San Antonio. I asked him to grab me a couple of bottles, with out specific details of how I would get them from him, and he just shipped them yesterday, and they are already here. Plus I just saw on FB another friend is in Belgium right now. I politely requested that he bring me back some Cantillon and Fantome. Any others I should ask him to find?
AlaskanAg99
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AG
quote:
A plethora of quality taprooms all over the front range with varying styles, amount of offerings, and hours is reason #437 why I will never leave Colorado.



I met my wife during the 2011 GABF at Falling Rock. Were married earlier this year but while we were long distance dating for 9 months we hit damn near every brewery from the Springs to Ft. Fun. Lot of overnight stays in the further places.

Headed back to GABF this year as a steward, always a fun time. I always thought coastal San Diego and the Front Range were similar, just swap out mountains for an ocean, lots and lots of sun and there isn't **** to the east.

Good beers as well, but I give SD the edge there.
MADDUD
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I hope to live in Colorado one day, but for now I will sit here and enjoy my first ever Hoptimum. Very good in my opinion
CollinAB
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AG
Hoptimum is great stuff. I'm sipping on a Torpedo right now. Haven't had it in a while. Forgot how solid it was.

I also managed to snag the last Cherries of Fire bottle at Spec's on Texas in College Station. Pretty happy with that one.
MADDUD
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I saw that last CoF this morning, but I couldn't bring myself to pay 13 bucks for it. I've had the 004, and the 005. I just don't think they are worth the money in my opinion.
streetfighter2012
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AG
I hit up Rockwell Tavern for the first time tonight. Enjoyed their Karbach F.U.N. night and had a 005 hellfighter and 006 cherries of fire.
aggiejz
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First of the night.. Hoopla Pale Ale from Boulder Beer. Drinkable, but nothing particularly special for me. I get a lot of malt and not as much balance as I'd like.

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