Hell nah. I finally got the events down and they want to go back?

I hated the APFT. The new ACFT is a lot more enjoyable for the Soldiers and I find it more motivating. Think of all the ACFT fields we created and all the equipment we just purchased to conduct those events.....millions.

Oh and we are on the ACFT 3.0 because of congress and their inability to stay out of this event.


"On Friday, the Senate Armed Services Committee released its draft summary of the must-pass National Defense Authorization Act, or NDAA, which sets funding and policy priorities for the Pentagon. The draft directs the Army to restore the previous Army Physical Fitness Test, or APFT. On top of that, it would require the service to develop the test for three years, a move that could sideline graded fitness tests for a soldier's record, with two years for a pilot program and another year to finalize standards."

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/06/26/congress-move-scrap-acft-sparks-outcry-army-leadership.html

That's my point. We finally have it dialed in after 3 years of growing pains. All that just to say "nvm guys, Congress says this isn't working out".

Everything is awesomeeeee!

The last NDAA contained requirements for a more difficult standard or test that is also gender neutral for combat arms MOS's. That was supposed to be enacted by the end of this month. I haven't seen anything on that recently.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/02/15/more-changes-brewing-embattled-army-fitness-test.html

ETA:

It looks like the Army decided to blow off the intent of the law's wording and not change the ACFT. I would bet that this push is a little Congressional payback for being ignored.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/04/26/army-fitness-test-wont-get-gender-tweaks-despite-lawmaker-concerns.html/amp

T&Ps

It's been changed 3 times to make it more gender neutral. At conception, it was suppose to be this badass ACFT that held everyone to the same standard.

Then they realized that the females failed leg ticks across the board, so then they made the alternative event being the plank then on the 3.0 ACFT, we have leg tucks eliminated and plank only.

Our unit executes it greatly right now and it's a well oiled machine.

Please stop with the changes

Ah, long day for me.

I meant that it started gender neutral then became more conforming to individual needs

I remembered seeing a reserve unit doing the ACFT when I was at one of the gyms at Camp Pendleton. Looked like they brought a lot of their own equipment. Always wondered what they did with it the rest of the year, and which congressmen got those companies in their district lucrative contracts for the equipment.

I totally get it, the regular old pushups, situps, run, doesn't encompass all aspects of fitness that you need to be a good soldier/sailor/airman/marine. But it does a reasonable job looking at overall fitness. Commanders should be ensuring their units are training for the mission they face. A tanker doesn't need to have the best cardiovascular fitness, but regular infantry probably does.

The Marine CFT isn't bad. At least all they really use are cones and ammo cans.

Navy just moved to planks instead of situps.

Politically, you can't make any sort of physical fitness test gender neutral because it will be "unfair" to females. This is because the average male is stronger, faster, and has better cardio-respiratory endurance than the average female. thus, if you make a physical fitness test truly gender neutral, you will get one of two results:

1) Large numbers of females fail the test.
2) If you set the passing scores low enough that most females can pass, the males will all have *much* higher scores than the females.

(Now, it would seem to me that making the whole thing Pass/Fail would solve your problem in scenario #2, but what do I know?)

I was in the Army from 1996-2016. I remember hearing that Big Army wanted to change the APFT at least as far back as 2001. IMO, this particular version, particularly the gender neutral scoring, was a response to the Obama admin mandating allowing females into combat arms.

I've got 3 soldiers that are attending ALC in August. ALC wants a PT test within 60 days of the class start date. My guys took their ACFT in May, so all 3 need another PT test. It used to be I would grab a couple of NCOs and we would spend an hour one morning getting this knocked out. Instead I have to schedule a space, schedule the equipment and spend a lot more time getting the test run. Thankfully all are full time National Guard so it reduces the scheduling headache.

ArmyAg2002 said:

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I've got 3 soldiers that are attending ALC in August. ALC wants a PT test within 60 days of the class start date. My guys took their ACFT in May, so all 3 need another PT test. It used to be I would grab a couple of NCOs and we would spend an hour one morning getting this knocked out. Instead I have to schedule a space, schedule the equipment and spend a lot more time getting the test run. Thankfully all are full time National Guard so it reduces the scheduling headache.

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The NCOES PT timeframe requirement is a pain. Especially since they are going to conduct the ACFT there anyways.

Exactly

I'm on team ACFT!

All about the Soldiers. The morale and overall vibe of the ACFT turns into a competition.

The APFT was just a crap ton of waiting in line, "turn the other way", everyone is miserable then watch the officers go for a run.

Honestly, I wish they would eliminate the ACFT requirement from NCOES. We already have a standard for how often the ACFT should be completed. You get flagged if you don't, and flagged soldiers can't go to school. That should be good enough. You shouldn't have to take an additional ACFT at school. It's a waste of time.

And NCOs. Archaic mentality and babysitting grown ass men killed any motivation to stay in.

JABQ04 said:

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And NCOs. Archaic mentality and babysitting grown ass men killed any motivation to stay in.

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The only reason I've stayed in is that the unit I'm assigned to avoids so much childish bull*****

A unit can hold the APFT test that includes 2 minutes of pushups, 2 minutes of sit-ups, and a 2-mile run anywhere for free. Also, that test provides a good snapchat of a soldier's fitness.

I like the ACFT better. I think in many ways it is a better indicator of overall fitness. However, I think it is a whole lot easier to do the minimum and pass the ACFT than the old APFT. It is a lot harder to excel, however. In the long term, I'm not sure if that leads to a force that is actually more fit, or just one that has a higher passing percentage.

MarathonAg12 said:

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I'm over congress meddling with this test. We're on the ACFT 3.0 now.

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This. Why shouldn't the Army be able to set its own standards? I understand that some members of Congress are veterans, and I applaud that, but serving soldiers should be the ones to decide what is required.

Old enough to remember the 6 event PT test with the crab crawl, monkey bars, runs, etc. Then the push in the mid 70's for the Tanker's PT test with rolling a road wheel around a baseball diamond, shuttle run with tank tracks, high porting a tank round, etc. Then there were years where no PT tests were required. Then the APFT with the 2 mile run, pushups, situps. That was a response to being able to do it anywhere for free.

Then there was the height/weight deal with the tape, etc. I was always of the opinion if they sold uniforms in the PX that you could fit into AND you passed a yearly PT test, who cares what you weigh. The fat boy program ran off some decent soldiers.

As an old retired guy I have no idea what a ACPT is, and I don't care. Bad ideas in the military always come back around over time. There are other DoD issues to resolve before the next SHTF moment.

They just adjusted the Tape Policy.

The new tape test will require tape testing for all soldiers, who will be measured around the waist, according to the Army directive announced June 12. Previously, the Army for decades has determined soldiers' body fat by measuring a man's neck and abdomen or a woman's neck, waist and hips.

What are y'all's thoughts?

Just measuring the waist? What's considered acceptable v non acceptable?

Here's the new directive.


https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/ARN38535-ARMY_DIR_2023-11-000-WEB-1.pdf

Sorry, I meant what measurement is considered passing? 34"? 36"? I'm assuming it's based on height as well?

Doesn't appear to care about height anymore. Only age, gender, weight, and waist circumference.