Next thing you know they will not let the fish order lattes at the Quad Starbucks...

AGhistorian said:

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So if these cadets violated the approved training plan, and conducted these activities in a manner that was not authorized during FOW then they would be in the wrong. Now there may be an argument, between is this being hazing and some other type of disciplinary matter, but either way not following the approved training plan isn't a good thing.direction things are headed in.

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This is where I'm sitting. Feels like they violated the training plan and certainly should be held accountable for that but it doesn't seem to raise to the level of a hazing charge that can bring with it actual criminal charges by the DA.

The absence of G-Ram from the thread tells me all that I need to know.

It tells me that a staff member posting any information on a specific student conduct case would be both a violation of University Rules, and The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA).

AGhistorian said:

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It tells me that a staff member posting any information on a specific student conduct case would be both a violation of University Rules, and The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA).

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Exactly, nor do I expect that he will be able to address these charges even after they are decided on. Even if the students choose to open up about the case in public, university officials will be prevented from addressing it.

chickencoupe16 said:

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AGhistorian said:

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It tells me that a staff member posting any information on a specific student conduct case would be both a violation of University Rules, and The Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA).

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I'm not up to speed on the University Rules, but FERPA leaves room for a statement to be made. No, he couldn't say "John Johnson kicked multiple footlockers, damaging both the footlockers and their contents." but a broad discussion of how the Corps seeks to remain tough but keep up with the times can certainly be had. I think these charges are just another example of the changes seen in the Corps that many of us view as detrimental to the experience.

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G-Ram posts plenty and addresses far more on here than I would as Commandant.

I don't see why you would expect him to comment on a thread about an on going hazing investigation.

Let's try to keep name calling out if it. Especially on this board. We can disagree and argue our points without calling names.

I'm not a fan of what's been going on at A&M either.

Username checks out

EDIT: All statements made in this post are mine and are based on details that I've pieced together myself. There are no direct quotes or inside information from BG Ramirez.

Dumb_Loggy said:

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Ramirez is a putz and will continue to push his SJW agenda right alongside Young.

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Internet tough guy calls out O-7 Flag Officer on college affiliated entertainment board. Wow.

Full disclosure - I'm a B-Company StreetFighter so I'm naturally a little biased.

Admittedly, I'm not happy about some of the changes I've seen in the Corps (those water bottles around the neck made me want to cry) but, I also understand that not everybody has the advantage of growing up under Islam in the deserts of Saudi Arabia like I did so, I see how there could be different opinions and perspectives out there. Not everybody thinks that watching your fish buddies become heat casualties during Aggie Band drill in August is as funny as I think it is. In fact, as it turns out, if you're a leader and you allow that to happen, you're pretty irresponsible. I changed my attitude between my days as a cadet and my time as a military troop leader. You might say, I matured.

I've had the opportunity to meet BG Ramirez multiple times in several locations - College Station, Australia, California. About 4-5 years ago, I actually spent my birthday showing him around my neighborhood in Sydney's Northern Beaches. Point is, I've spent a lot of time talking to him (8+ hours at least).

My assessment - BG Ramirez is not the smartest guy I've ever met. But, I've met a lot of smart guys so the bar is pretty high. But one thing that I will absolutely give Joe credit for, he is what I would call "savvy". When it comes to the goings on of the Corps as a student organization on campus, he's Grandmaster Bobby Fischer - always thinking four moves ahead. Simply put, he has a gift IMHO for being able to see things that a lot of us can't see or wouldn't be able to see. He doesn't do it all on his own though, he's got a staff who he leverages very effectively. In my opinion. That's leadership.

I've had the opportunity to know some people who are slaves to the grind and are stuck in dead end jobs where they're waiting for somebody to die so they can get promoted. I've also had the opportunity to work for some people who were already millionaires or billionaires (one is an Indian immigrant no less) who don't need to continue working but do it because they are passionate and give a damn.

Coming up in B-Company, the story was told to us about how the guy who started our outfit was this hardcore gang banger Mexican (that's the description we used in the 80s) guy from Houston. When I finally met the guy and he told me the story first hand, it was good but not as great as the legend. That's probably true for all word of mouth legends.

The takeway is, in a nutshell, The Aggie Band and the Corps of Cadets is the reason that a young man from the Houston Ship Channel area didn't wind up becoming a statistic. If you think that Joe has anything other than undying love for the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets, you would be mistaken.

30 years ago when I was in the Corps, we were unpopular on campus. There were many then who wished we would just go away. We definitely had our share of bad press and unfortunate incidents back then. It got so bad at one point that we had to stop playing "Dixie" and "Patton". Dixie never returned but I remember when we first got the green light to play Patton again, it was awesome.

These days with social media, the reality is that you're tried, found guilty and summarily executed in the court of public opinion before the sun has even come up in California.

There are many people who would like to see the Corps of Cadets go away completely. That is one of the things that BG Ramirez has to deal with every single day - not just 40 hours/week. I don't know how things are at your job but that's a pretty big ask. And that is essentially what is asked of his staff as well.

In terms of what started this thread, I hope that the cadets involved will have their day in court and justice will be served whichever way that goes. In my opinion, the A&M Corps of Cadets has had a long history of overreaction with suspensions and censure - especially with respect to special units such as PMC, FDT, etc.

I have been very impressed with the level of engagement and rumor quelling I've seen from Commandant79. In my day, I'm pretty sure the Commandant wouldn't even know how to login to a computer. Certainly there's no way that MG "Spike" Darling '54 was going to be logging into the VAX to read bulletin boards, much less respond to them.

I've got to get back to prep for a call with a customer in Kawasaki, Japan so I'll close with this, is Ramirez perfect? Of course not. Has he spent a decade modernizing the Texas A&M Corps of Cadets to bring it into a strong leadership position? Yes. Does he have an SJW agenda that he's pushing? Not that I've seen.

I'll leave it like this, have you considered the possibilities that:

• There are forces at work on campus who would love to have the Corps of Cadets gone completely.
• Since I know he's playing 4 moves ahead, he can probably see some things that you can't see or foresee and if he makes his moves correctly, you'll never even know what bullets got dodged.

At the minimum, I'd withdraw your derogatory comment. If you really wanted to man up, Joe has posted his phone number on here numerous times. Give him a call and set a meeting. I'll bet he'd take it too because this is a mission for him (like the Billionaire Indian guy I work for), not just some lame SJW agenda.

aggiejim70 said:

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A Co, B Batt, whatever. Why can't all you New Army BQ's just play nice.

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You must have missed the White Band vs Maroon Band rivalries.

When the Band split into 4 units in late Spring 1976, White and Maroon were purposely mixed among the new outfits to kill the old rivalries

Predictably, new rivalries emerged.

And like the BQ vs C T battles of old, I'd still be happy to kick a CT's butt, yet defend him to the death against outsiders.

And like the BQ vs C T battles of old, I'd still be happy to kick a CT's butt, yet defend him to the death against outsiders.

I can give you a real world example of this. Spring evening of my senior year 9 and 11 go dark. Took less than a minute to go through the litany.

Dorms are dark......CT's in the steam tunnels

Quad is dark.......Non-regs in the steam tunnels

Campus is dark .....Sips in the steam tunnels

College Station is dark......Russians in the steam tunnels

I guess the next phase was ........Martians in the steam tunnels

CharlieBrown17 said:

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The academies also have way less autonomy at the cadet level. They're told what/when/how to train by active duty stationed there.

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Yep.

USAFA. Forty Squadrons of about 100 each. Forty Majors with offices in the dorms. Forty senior NCOs, also with offices in the dorms. Faculty and staff largely active duty or retired. BGEN is Dean of Students. LTGEN is Superintendent of the Academy.

Incoming freshmen randomly assigned to squadrons. At end of fish year, they are taken from that squadron and reassigned to other random squadrons.

Cadet COs and other positions are semester long. So you might be Cadet Squadron CO for the fall semester. Someone else will have that slot in the Spring, and a third person in the Summer session.

Assignment to USAFA is career builder. No way in Hades are those officers going to let cadets have enough autonomy to screw said officers' careers.

Naveronski said:

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...and the ability to fail and learn from it ends up making our officers better than theirs.

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I would submit that the ability to fail has been mostly removed from our cadets, as opposed to my day.

Current Trigon, Commandant's Office, and University officials keep a lot tighter rein these days, as an individual cadet's failure is seen as harmful to the named bureaucracies.