JCRebel13 said:

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Not only that, but this new S2 first sergeant is from an outfit that's never been integrated and you're putting him into an outfit that is integrated with peers he doesn't know and expecting him to succeed. Likewise for this Lindsay moving to E2 and expecting her to succeed in an outfit about to be integrated alongside peers who have been apart of an all male outfit and choose to be in an all male outfit when they joined the Corps. Is this new E2 first sergeant going to go through Mascot training? Is she going to learn the operation orders and procedures that the entire outfit has learned regarding the mascot for the University? Everyone in E2 needs to know it and now there's an individual in the outfit that has zero training on that matter and now she's expected to lead the charge towards integration. Still curious why the young men in E2 are finding this out on social media. I'd love an answer to that one.

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Completely unrelated to the issue of integration and how the outfit was informed but it's not the first time a non Rebel has been put into the outfit as leadership. It happened during my time in the Corps, not sure how it worked out from the angle you're speaking from (he never went through mascot training) but it has happened before. I can't really relate to the issue seeing as I'm from as integrated outfit but just thought I'd add that.

Trident15 said:

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JCRebel13 said:

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Not only that, but this new S2 first sergeant is from an outfit that's never been integrated and you're putting him into an outfit that is integrated with peers he doesn't know and expecting him to succeed. Likewise for this Lindsay moving to E2 and expecting her to succeed in an outfit about to be integrated alongside peers who have been apart of an all male outfit and choose to be in an all male outfit when they joined the Corps. Is this new E2 first sergeant going to go through Mascot training? Is she going to learn the operation orders and procedures that the entire outfit has learned regarding the mascot for the University? Everyone in E2 needs to know it and now there's an individual in the outfit that has zero training on that matter and now she's expected to lead the charge towards integration. Still curious why the young men in E2 are finding this out on social media. I'd love an answer to that one.

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Completely unrelated to the issue of integration and how the outfit was informed but it's not the first time a non Rebel has been put into the outfit as leadership. It happened during my time in the Corps, not sure how it worked out from the angle you're speaking from (he never went through mascot training) but it has happened before. I can't really relate to the issue seeing as I'm from as integrated outfit but just thought I'd add that.

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Nathan Pruthi is an example I believe you're considering and I had the same issue with him as I do this new individual. Nathan, I believe, went through some very basic mascot operational training (or he didn't). Fact of the matter is, this was very poorly planned and implemented and when there is a E2 Rebel as first sergeant of another outfit (which is integrated) , it makes zero sense as to why he is not the first sergeant of the outfit he grew up with (that until now was not integrated) , understands, and with peers he knows he can work with. Not sure how you expect him or her to succeed.

E2 is going to be another K1 that loses its identity because of this moment here.

Fact of this matter is, new people will be forced to come in and help this transition and train new, incoming female Cadets. Male and female. None of which have any kind of understanding of Reveille, the procedures surrounding her, or the operational day to day matters that take up so much time for the sophomores. Not sure how a 1stSgt that has not gone through that training or that education, can aid the sophomores under their command to deal with such a high task.

To top it off, the moment anyone of them says "It's just a dog" is the very moment it's clear they have zero understanding about E2, it's philosophy, it's culture, identity, and the mascot herself.

That's when the outfit loses its identity.

CT20unkown said:

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Funny since I had different expectations when joining the corps than when I choose to serve...I at least had the choice to be amongst other men for my Corps experience. Why? Because that's the environment I wanted to spend my college years in. Doesn't mean I have anything against women, it just means that I chose not to get involved with all the BS that comes with life in an integrated outfit.

I mean holy **** dude, I chose to leave a certain non integrated outfit because I had other intentions for my career and wanted my Corps experience to better reflect that.

Also nothing wrong with a "20th Century mindset"

It's the only thing preventing the madness that is millennial thinking from completely destroying this organization and our country.


Also in response to GRam,

You mentioned how y'all pick the best possible candidate for these leadership roles. So what you're telling us is that this girl was a better fit to be E-2s 1st Sgt than E-2s current guidon, who got pulled for 1st Sgt for S-2? I get you want to integrate RebelE to "be in compliance with Title IX" but why not just open up the outfit to class of 2021 next year?

RIP RebelE

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Lol...."there is nothing wrong with a 20th Century mindset"......?

Man life is going to be rough for you after you graduate. I'm sorry that you only want to be surrounded by other dudes brah.

Girls aren't bad man. I promise!

I feel like being integrated AND turned into a transfer outfit would be worse than just being integrated in respect to K-1.

(Not that either of those things are necessarily bad, but they are big changes)

Trident15 said:

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I feel like being integrated AND turned into a transfer outfit would be worse than just being integrated in respect to K-1.

(Not that either of those things are necessarily bad, but they are big changes)

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This is what's happening to E2. Transfer and integration. All in order to supply good publicity when a female MC is eventually forced onto E2 and provide a nice, forced political statement. **** the guys that choose E2 because it was all male and they wanted that experience.

Also Tribe: You obviously have no stake in this fight so how about you just move along.

Not sure where you got the information that E-2 will now be a transfer outfit. Yes, it might have 1SGT from a different company, but a full-blown transfer outfit would mean that E-2 would have a fish class of frogs, which is not the case.

E2 will be receiving new members on all levels in the outfit. These members will be transferring from their original outfits onto E2.

I. E. They're becoming a transfer outfit. Don't have to have frogs to become that.

If we're going by that logic, then every outfit on the quad could be called a "transfer outfit" at some point in time or another. I'm in an all male outfit that for the last few years has taken one or two frogs/transfers, albeit it was on our own terms as these guys were absolute studs. I can't imagine what it would be like to get flooded all at once.

Am not as up to speed on the comings and goings on the quad as of late; however this situation reminds me of my old fire department.

Dept went from full vol to a combination of paid and volunteer. The guys that tried to fight the change were like squirrels trying to stop a moving train. They just got squashed.

The previous poster that suggested quit fighting this and try to help your old bunch make it work is right. The best way for E-2 to lose is to continue fighting a decision that is already made and done.

Side note, I always lol when somebody says their outfit is one of the hardest on the quad. Newsflash, we all say that about our outfit and that new army has it easy!

Concur that lamented the situations (E-1 and E-2), or the perception of the situations, is fruitless. Decisions have been made by those in the position to do so. Not going to be undone.

Seems the course of action is for those with an interest in the particular outfit to rally around the outfit as it is and as it will be - without complaint (to the current members) as to the situation as perceived by a bunch of old Ags - and provide as much support, material and motivational, to the outfit as possible. Resulting shortcomings may be overcome. Bonds may be strengthened.

Repeatedly going down this road myself.

Hey I'm not defending or attacking the Title IX rationale because I don't know. But dog care is something most Americans who have ever had a dog could pick up in an hour or two, I was just wondering what extraordinary care is requried for Reville, that a new, outside CO couldn't pick it up rather quickly.

I do find it pretty entertaining that some folks actually believe that there is some grand "PC" conspiracy or reasoning for changes in the Corps. Having first hand knowledge of the process and the people involved I will echo the Commandant in saying that nothing could be further from the truth.

What some fail to understand is that cadets have to apply to be a CO or 1SG, and meet a basic set of standards to be considered. Sometimes there is only one applicant from an outfit to be a CO (and they aren't always the best person for the job). Cadets have a lot of different goals and for some being a CO isn't one of them even if they are a good leader.

Additionally, in the remaining pool, there are years where one outfit produces a bunch of quality candidates and another outfit produces none. You have to take an honest look at all of the people being considered for command and decide who your best people are and then put them in positions. Having observed these deliberations I can say that race, gender, and all of those other things some might lump under the "PC" banner, don't even enter the conversation. It is always about who will do the best job, and help the outfit be successful.

Just like any successful organization, the Corps changes and adapts over time. I'm not going to say that Rev "is just a dog," because I understand that it is an important part of E2's history and traditions. However the Mascot program really should be just another tool to develop leaders of character and from my perspective anything that distracts from that is an encumbrance.

Some of you seem to think Title IX is some sort of excuse. However you are sadly mistaken, it is the law, and I'm sure that no one here wants to see the Corps on the front page of the paper because it isn't complying with the law. In my personal opinion, if my daughter decides to go to TAMU and be in the Corps, I would hope that she would have the same opportunities that her male peers have. That includes a shot a being mascot CPL.

Well that's just not the way things work. The Corps is not a confederation of autonomous entities, it is a hierarchical organization.

Here's a reminder that it takes courage and vision to push thru difficult change, and that there will always be naysayers who do not have the imagination to understand why it is necessary: General Rudder

I don't know if it's pure hubris, maybe just 50%.

However your logic doesn't follow: Trigon involvement = PC?

I'm not sure if you're aware but more than half the people on the selection committee are cadet commanders. Additionally I'm not sure that, GPA, PT scores, discipline record, an essay on leadership philosophy, goals for the outfit, and peer leadership, and an in-person interview are "made up" standards.

Having been in the Corps when you were a cadet, I can say it is a very different place. The OOC staff is much more involved in mentoring cadet leaders than when you were a cadet, and this is a good thing. This doesn't mean that the OOC staff is making the decisions; but being a sounding board for commanders and offering up their years of experience in both military and civilian leadership is a valuable thing.

The OOC staff know these cadets much better than the Bull's knew us when you and I were a Cadet. So discounting their knowledge of what "makes each unique outfit tick" is doing them a disservice (I know there are mixed feelings out there about the Bulls, but they really do a good job).

It maybe unpopular to say but 18-21 year old college students don't always know what is best for them (having worked with college students for the last decade I feel pretty comfortable saying that). So having an outside and experience perspective to say "maybe this outfit needs someone who challenges this senior class to get their act together" is positive. The cadets today get plenty of chances to lead, succeed, and fall on their face. Just because we had a good experience doesn't mean that it could not have been better.

AGhistorian said:

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Well that's just not the way things work. The Corps is not a confederation of autonomous entities, it is a hierarchical organization.

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Who said anything about a confederation of autonomous entities? I don't have any big problem with the commandant saying who he prefers, however every now and then you have a guy that ends up getting selected by him that the entire outfit hates, but he looks good on paper. That just leads to a caustic environment for the entire year. It needs to be a two way street.

This is even a bigger problem when you are constantly transferring commanders constantly from one outfit to another like what has happened the past 5 years or so. At the end of the day, these are college students. Why would you want to take the chance of accidentally making their lives miserable for a year because you think you know better than them?

And all of this is in regards to Commanders only. I still think that commanders should be able to choose their subordinates completely. One of the reasons the military is so successful is because of decentralized command. You would think the goal of a military organization would emphasize these good traits.