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The NCO creed starts "No one is more professional than I" for crying out loud. With that kind of mentality, it's no surprise many NCOs carry the false notion that they can do an officer's job and deserve O pay.

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Just to be clear do you carry the notion that you can do an NCO's job? Is it a false notion? I grew up in the Army where my officer's were the "What to" but the NCOs were the "How to". Generally speaking most officers were plenty capable of completing the task just like most NCOs knew what the necessary task at hand needed to be. The "O pay" is about the ultimate responsibility of the Soldiers and mission resting on the officer corps but lets not confuse that with some higher level of competency or understanding. If you aren't grooming your subordinates, whether they be enlisted or not, to some day do your job then you aren't doing it right.

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LOL @ hypocrisy

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You do understand that there are sycophants who will walk over anyone, stab them in the back, lie, cheat and steal to move ahead? If you don't you're in for a hard ride in your military career.

And if any of you believe "payback" doesn't occur in any military service (or the Corps), you are completely naive, or just plain stupid.

I'm surprised the Chiefs' Mess b#tch session hasn't kicked up on here yet.

Diyala, thanks for the kind words towards us demo junkies. For the record, the Army includes 7 branches on its list of Combat Arms (unless that's changed since I left). Infantry, Armor, FA, ADA, Aviation, Engineers, and SF. Obviously only certain units in Aviation and Engineers meet the criteria. So, Combat Engineers are considered Combat Arms. Engineer OBC changed after I left towards a combat track and a service-support track rather than the one-size-fits-all I was subject to.

As for the Officers vs. NCOs, I learned a couple of important lessons: there is no such thing as "NCO business" vs. "Officer business," and an NCO is not designed nor trained to adequately take on the role of an officer and visa versa. Officers who thought they were Sgts wound up hurting their men and PSGs who ignored their officers did the same. Officers have a level of information and resources not available to NCOs and NCOs have a knowledge of personal dynamics within a PLT or CO that officers can't fully grasp. In short, stop waving ****s and just work together.

H1AG is right, this thread is not tacky enough...so here.

dp.

[This message has been edited by Rev_86 (edited 5/15/2013 7:21a).]

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For the record, the Army includes 7 branches on its list of Combat Arms

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That's true, but if you stop and think, only Infantry and CAVALRY are the two that meet and close with the enemy up front. All others are supporting them. Combat Engineers are engineers FIRST than infantry second, so include them as (A) under the I. Now, having said that the army in its infinite wisdom is attempting to combine infantry and CAVALRY into a "manuever" branch, which is noble, but will likely compromise some of the unique abilities of both. We'll see.

(The US ARMY is the ONLY component that has ever fielded a actual CAVALRY arm. For you CAV guys, stand tall, you are truly the Few and the Brave...US CAVALRY)

Those definitions of who meets and closes with the enemy needs some adjustment in the current OE. My engineer battalion was task organized as infantry for my entire first tour in Iraq. Even received blessing from the infantry school for the CIB (Pentagon shot it down). Of course, I shouldn't have to remind you who landed first at Omaha Beach, crossed the Rhein first, and, in linear combat, is the first to enter the enemy's AO.

Hey, sap, just tellin' you the army's mantra...but I agree with you, CE's deserve the EIB always in my HO, and the CIB when deployed. But then again, I'm retired and no longer able to influence simple-assed minds.

[This message has been edited by terata (edited 5/16/2013 2:23p).]

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Those definitions of who meets and closes with the enemy needs some adjustment in the current OE. My engineer battalion was task organized as infantry for my entire first tour in Iraq. Even received blessing from the infantry school for the CIB (Pentagon shot it down). Of course, I shouldn't have to remind you who landed first at Omaha Beach, crossed the Rhein first, and, in linear combat, is the first to enter the enemy's AO.

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If the chief of infantry agreed, why would the pentagon care? good idea fairies out in force

I don't recall if it was in OCS or OBC where we received a mock demonstration of engineers clearing a minefield with a grappling hook. At the time I thought it was pure bluster, then I got to my unit and had a chance to work with some engineers...

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Aggies Revenge:

For the most part my officers were excellent, including one LT who was a former football player at Tennessee (would have followed that guy to hell)]

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You aren't talking about Greg Johnson are you? If so, he is a stud. Great Marine.

S/F