Well, after 3 hours it's all aligned. The tables are within 1.5 thousandths. The cutterhead is maybe .5-1 thousandth low on the front side, but it's as close as it's going to get.
Jointer Rehab Project
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Last: 8 days ago by ABATTBQ11
ABATTBQ11 said:
Well, after 3 hours it's all aligned. The tables are within 15 thousandths. The cutterhead is maybe .5-1 thousandth low on the front side, but it's as close as it's going to get.
Awesome. How and what are you using to measure to get to that precision of level?
Long straight edge and feeler gauges (basically thin strips of metal with precision thickness). Lay the strait edge on the infeed, bring the outfeed up to the correct height, then slip the feeler gauge under the straight edge to check for gaps to tell you where it is low or high. You have to do it across the width of the table to make sure they're is no twist. You have to adjust, relock, and remeasure over and over until it's within 3 thousandths, but 1.5 is preferable and the thinnest feeler I have.
Once the feeler stops slipping under the straight edge along the length of both tables across the width, you know it's good. The cutter head is a little different. With a flat blade you can just measure the distance with a dial indicator. With a helical that's a lot harder. One way is to take a board and put a vertical mark on it. Lower the infeed just under the cutting circle. Set the board over it, edge down and close to the back since, with the mark lined up with the table edge. Slowly rotate the head to see how far it moves. Do the same close to the front. The distances should be the same.
Once the feeler stops slipping under the straight edge along the length of both tables across the width, you know it's good. The cutter head is a little different. With a flat blade you can just measure the distance with a dial indicator. With a helical that's a lot harder. One way is to take a board and put a vertical mark on it. Lower the infeed just under the cutting circle. Set the board over it, edge down and close to the back since, with the mark lined up with the table edge. Slowly rotate the head to see how far it moves. Do the same close to the front. The distances should be the same.
I still need to work on the fence and guard, but it will be raining for the next several days. That means no painting or progress there. I do have the belts on. They came in today and I got them on this afternoon. I also put the rabbet ledge back on.
What I can do is get the phase converter wired back on. The trouble is, I don't remember how it was done originally. I have found some videos on wiring in a similar model (same line but for different HP range), so hopefully I don't burn the house down. I'm going to put ring terminals on the wire ends to make everything a little nicer and easier. I also need to shorten the extra long cord coming off the startup controls box (I guess it needs more than a switch because of the 3 phase) and attach the phase converter to the machine itself. IIRC it was originally attached to a column between the machine and where it was hardwired in. When it was originally wired, there were no cable clamps put on the boxes, so I will need to make a run to Lowe's before I can really do much. My goal is to have this done sometime next week and to for it up for some test cuts, but I'm not in a hurry.
I also need to drill some holes to put the cut depth gauge and serial plate back on. I will need to drill and tap for new screws because **** rivets. Luckily it will be cooling down and working in the garage won't be such a PITA soon.
What I can do is get the phase converter wired back on. The trouble is, I don't remember how it was done originally. I have found some videos on wiring in a similar model (same line but for different HP range), so hopefully I don't burn the house down. I'm going to put ring terminals on the wire ends to make everything a little nicer and easier. I also need to shorten the extra long cord coming off the startup controls box (I guess it needs more than a switch because of the 3 phase) and attach the phase converter to the machine itself. IIRC it was originally attached to a column between the machine and where it was hardwired in. When it was originally wired, there were no cable clamps put on the boxes, so I will need to make a run to Lowe's before I can really do much. My goal is to have this done sometime next week and to for it up for some test cuts, but I'm not in a hurry.
I also need to drill some holes to put the cut depth gauge and serial plate back on. I will need to drill and tap for new screws because **** rivets. Luckily it will be cooling down and working in the garage won't be such a PITA soon.
Reading a manual for the phase converter, it shouldn't be mounted directly to machines with excessive vibration unless you isolate it from vision vibration. I have no idea what is excessive or if this would fit that. Could I just use rubber washers on both sides of the cabinet housing? Do I even need to worry?
Is it on a mobile base? Could rig up a jig for it to mount to on it.
Also, you did all that work and didnt repaint the base?
Also, should have e sent this to you earlier
http://vintagemachinery.org/
Theres a wealth of knowledge here on American made machines.
Also, you did all that work and didnt repaint the base?
Also, should have e sent this to you earlier
http://vintagemachinery.org/
Theres a wealth of knowledge here on American made machines.
aTm '99
Base is on the to-do list eventually, but more work than what I currently have time and space for. The chute is not fully enclosed on the inside, so chips and dust can easily get into the cabinet. Chips/dust can also get into the cabinet from the belt opening pretty easily because the whole thing basically just sits over a hole, so I want make some modifications before going through the cleaning and painting process on the cabinet. That's all phase 2.
Got it wired up, but no dice. Reading the phase converter manual, sometimes what wires go to what terminals matters to activate magnetic contacts. I'll mess with that tomorrow.
I at least have confidence the phase converter got power though. I could hear it hum when it was plugged in, so that's a decent sign. The breaker also didn't trip, so that's nice.
I at least have confidence the phase converter got power though. I could hear it hum when it was plugged in, so that's a decent sign. The breaker also didn't trip, so that's nice.
I need someone to explain this to me because I'm not an electrical guy...
This is the wiring diagram for the contactor. I'm guessing it's a magnetic contactor, which is why wiring to the phase converter is not as simple as input to terminal A and C and output from ABC. The magnetic control wires need to be on terminal A and C of the phase converter. How can I tell which ones these are?
Your diagram is partially in light. The shadows make it difficult to read.
I don't quite follow your question (maybe refers to phase converter wiring). But to explain this contactor - L1, L2 (& L3) are your input voltages. T1, T2 (& T3) are the outputs to power the motor.
The control circuit draws power from L1 & L2. When the 'Start' button is pushed, it energizes coil C (C with circle). That changes state of all the contacts (equal sign symbols). Open contacts close, and closed contacts open. That's what causes the motor to receive power. One of those changing contacts (13/14) also causes coil C to stay energized until the 'Stop' button is pushed to break the circuit. That's called a latching scheme because it latches the coil into one state or another until the opposite button is pushed.
The little overlapping question marks above U, V, & W represent overload coils. If the circuit load is too high for to long, it will go into overload and the contacts that have 'OL' next to them will change state and it basically trips the contactor coil.
The control circuit draws power from L1 & L2. When the 'Start' button is pushed, it energizes coil C (C with circle). That changes state of all the contacts (equal sign symbols). Open contacts close, and closed contacts open. That's what causes the motor to receive power. One of those changing contacts (13/14) also causes coil C to stay energized until the 'Stop' button is pushed to break the circuit. That's called a latching scheme because it latches the coil into one state or another until the opposite button is pushed.
The little overlapping question marks above U, V, & W represent overload coils. If the circuit load is too high for to long, it will go into overload and the contacts that have 'OL' next to them will change state and it basically trips the contactor coil.
Got it. That helps immensely. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out what needs to go where in the phase converter. This is from the instructions:
I'm assuming L1 and L2 are the wires I'm looking for that need to go to terminals A and C to get constant power from the converter to power the coil and latch from open to closed.
Quote:
For machines with magnetic switchgear, resistive or single-phase load: Resistive or single-phase loads and/or magnetic switchgear must be connected only to lines A and C from the converter. DO NOT connect the PHASE-A-MATIC static phase converter until you identify which two wires operate the magnetics. To easily locate these two wires connect 230V single-phase power to any 2 of the 3 wires on the machine and press the start button. When the correct combination is found, the magnetics will work. Connect these two wires to the outside terminals of the PHASE-A-MATIC converter terminals A and C, and the third wire to the center terminal, B. The magnetics should still work with the center terminal (line B) disconnected. Your motors magnetic overload protection remains the same, no changes are necessary.
I'm assuming L1 and L2 are the wires I'm looking for that need to go to terminals A and C to get constant power from the converter to power the coil and latch from open to closed.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is wired slightly different, because it looks like L3 is going to the coil instead of L2. I should have white and red on terminals A and C of the phase converter, not white and black.
ETA Also, none of this stuff seems to be grounded. Gonna need to find my ground screws.
ETA Also, none of this stuff seems to be grounded. Gonna need to find my ground screws.
Another option is to fi d a 1.5-2HP single phase motor. You're not turning 8" knives, only 1" cutters. So your HP needs are greatly reduced.
At my dad's shop today, 1960's PM 8" jointer.
At my dad's shop today, 1960's PM 8" jointer.
aTm '99
Made the swap and she fired right up! Hell yeah!
This was really helpful, and I deeply appreciate you taking the time to write it up and explain it.
Everyone, blue star this man!
Everyone, blue star this man!
I could, but I don't want to spend the money on a single phase when I have everything to make this one work. I'd maybe consider a trade, but now that I've got it working I don't know if it's worth the hassle.
That thing looks great btw!
That thing looks great btw!
Here's the inside of the cabinet and part of why I'm not working on it yet.
The diagonal part running down is the chute for chips and dust. You can't see it, but the top is open. When I got it the cabinet was stuffed with shavings because at some point the dust collection had gotten clogged and it backed up. I'd like to close that off to keep stuff out of the cabinet.
Also, the dust collection port was an add on. I think part of why it got backed up is how it fits over the chute, and I'd like to do something different that directs the entire chute into the dust port instead of just flat over it
The diagonal part running down is the chute for chips and dust. You can't see it, but the top is open. When I got it the cabinet was stuffed with shavings because at some point the dust collection had gotten clogged and it backed up. I'd like to close that off to keep stuff out of the cabinet.
Also, the dust collection port was an add on. I think part of why it got backed up is how it fits over the chute, and I'd like to do something different that directs the entire chute into the dust port instead of just flat over it
Awesome! Glad it was helpful.
Looks like you figured out your jumper question, too
Looks like you figured out your jumper question, too
Yeah, after you explained it, it all made sense once I started looking at it.
Went to test it and realized it was in reverse. Flipped the motor wires and we were in business. It certainly purrs, and it is much quieter than I expected. Just ran the edge of a piece of scrap maple over it, but it's quieter than my table saw and planer. Hopefully I can start cleaning up the guard tomorrow.
ABATTBQ11 said:
Went to test it and realized it was in reverse. Flipped the motor wires and we were in business. It certainly purrs, and it is much quieter than I expected. Just ran the edge of a piece of scrap maple over it, but it's quieter than my table saw and planer. Hopefully I can start cleaning up the guard tomorrow.
That is the best part. After I installed that on the jointer my dad upgraded his planer and opted for the shelix head on that. He was so shocked he didn't have to wear hearing protection for the 2 loudest machines in his shop. And its much easier on his whole shop dust collection system.
Started my poker table build today, steps 1 & 2 done. 3 tomorrow.
aTm '99
Do you get any light grooves from the helical head? I tried facing a board and it wasn't as smooth as I expected, with some light grooves along the length. Wondering if one or two of the inserts aren't quite aligned.
Ill be at the shop again tomorrow and will run a plank through to see.
Different project today.
Different project today.
aTm '99
Oh that looks fun
No, barrels will drive you mad.
Every stave is cupped, tapered and curved. There are no right angles and barrels are held together via swelling. When they dry everything becomes rickety.
Huge pain in the ass to work with, but it is all white oak.
Every stave is cupped, tapered and curved. There are no right angles and barrels are held together via swelling. When they dry everything becomes rickety.
Huge pain in the ass to work with, but it is all white oak.
aTm '99
There shouldn't be any grooves. Those carbide inserts are incredibly brittle and fragile. Check to be sure a couple aren't damaged.
They should also be indexed to prevent misalignment. But check that too.
aTm '99
I will check. A little disappointing to have issues straight from the factory.
I checked and there are no nicks in any of the cutters. I think I have figured out a couple of the problem ones, but it's across the entire face of the board. Not sure how well it'll show up here:
I see the run on the R side of the board gling down the length.
So n9w you can measure that distance and ID which set of cutterheads is the issue. What id do is line something up on the outfeed table so you can manually spin the head and see whats going on.
Then adjust tables and place a metal ruler out over the blades and see if you can tell if its one cutter or more.
Then pull off those blades and see if there isnt some sort of defect from milling and/or if theres some sort of burr thats causing the blades to lift to create that run youre seeing on the board. If you can find the issue, send photos back to where you bought it from and get it replaced.
Tedious but you cant have that mark on your lumber.
So n9w you can measure that distance and ID which set of cutterheads is the issue. What id do is line something up on the outfeed table so you can manually spin the head and see whats going on.
Then adjust tables and place a metal ruler out over the blades and see if you can tell if its one cutter or more.
Then pull off those blades and see if there isnt some sort of defect from milling and/or if theres some sort of burr thats causing the blades to lift to create that run youre seeing on the board. If you can find the issue, send photos back to where you bought it from and get it replaced.
Tedious but you cant have that mark on your lumber.
aTm '99
If you look about 2/3 down on the left you can see it there too. I think it's most pronounced there but harder to see closer up to the top. It really is across the entire width, but some spots are worse than others.
I will need to get a torque screwdriver to get the cutters back on correctly, so this will have to wait.
I will need to get a torque screwdriver to get the cutters back on correctly, so this will have to wait.
Other than what AlaskanAg99 pointed out, there might be another groove on the left side. The other long lines down the length are normal if we are seeing the same thing. Those should sand out easily. Maybe try sanding with 120 grit to tell which are normal and which are a problem.
There are a couple that I am pretty sure are the problem children. I will eventually try to reseat them. If all else fails, I will at least have a flat face, and once it gets parallel through the planer I can just flip it over for a very light pass to clean it up.
Any updates?
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