So I've noticed when I am in a tricky situation off the fairway I often strike the ball much better and make better shots than when I am in the fairway. I am assuming it is because I know I have to navigate trees, limbs, curve it left/right, etc.....Curious of anyone here pictures having to hit it low, high, left, right, etc even when in the fairway? Such as imagining a limb in there way, etc to help with putting a better strike on the ball?

It almost feels as if I am Phil Mickelson where it doesn't bother me so much if I miss a fairway because it forces me to make a certain shot. In the fairway I always try to hit a fade/draw, etc depending on hole location and what not but my strikes aren't as consistent as I like.

"Always try to hit a fade/draw" ???

Quit doing that and try to hit a straight shot.

Solved. Send $200 to Venmo @AOAGolfPro

.After getting my swing plane more upright, I have found that my naturally, most consistent shot is a straight iron shot and a slight cut drive. Messing with a draw requires more timing on the release and more practice than I have time for.

I've noticed something similar. On shots with a mid iron to a pitching wedge, I almost always pure them and hit a good shot if I have to worry about going over a tree in front of me, or keeping it low under one tree and then going over another. It's almost always good contact and ball flight, at least more so than when I'm in the fairway.

I'm not sure why that is. Maybe I focus more on those shots or maybe it's just that whatever I do with my swing when I'm trying those shots is a little different than what I do in my normal swing? It's kinda puzzling.

It's called pressure
When off fairway you're not putting pressure on yourself to get it on the green
When in fairway you are now expecting to make it on green and anything less is failure

jja79 said:

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Why would someone who hits fades and draws on command off side hill lies from under limbs need to pay you?

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Because obviously he's a stick and it's just mental. I know about mental.

Aight, i graduated from Greg Norman School of Aggressor. Give me a pin tucked back right with shot over water and pond right, I'm aiming 10 yards right and will draw the ball to the pin.

OK not really but the point being, I can't move the ball left to right or right to left at will with any sense of accuracy. But my natural shot is a draw and give me a dogleg right and I will still hit a draw. I have one ball flight and I will use it on100% of my swing.

This gives me twice the area to miss vs trying to hit a straight ball which I can't anyways.

bowhuntr said:

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.After getting my swing plane more upright, I have found that my naturally, most consistent shot is a straight iron shot and a slight cut drive. Messing with a draw requires more timing on the release and more practice than I have time for.

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You can actually control and feel this???

AgOutsideAustin said:

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"Always try to hit a fade/draw" ???

Quit doing that and try to hit a straight shot.

Solved. Send $200 to Venmo @AOAGolfPro

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Cheap.... $500 min or you're a hack.

The release is relatively the same for a cut/draw its swing path that dictates flight

To the OP
Yes, you should be visualizing everything about the shot. It's easier with an obstacle in the way sometimes because it gives you your mental picture.

Try visualizing ball flight, height, shape...where it will land on the green, and how it will release/react on the green. Maybe more important think about what it will feel like on impact. Solid contact itself will lower scores.

Conservative targets and aggressive swings

The BS level on this thread is off the charts.

Jack Nicklaus and TONS of other professional golfers would say that you should visualize every shot.

Sounds like you are easily able to visualize when the trees make a path more obvious for you.

There are some golf books that say you should visualize your target down to the inch, and the flight of the ball from start to finish. It's impossible to execute a plan that doesn't exist, so make a plan. Then, execute it.

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So I've noticed when I am in a tricky situation off the fairway I often strike the ball much better and make better shots than when I am in the fairway.

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If you are constantly hitting better shots from the rough, then stop trying to hit the fairway.

I would argue over the long haul your shots from outside the fairway are not averaging out "better".

stop overthinking things and hit the ball. Once you line up, just swing it. If you are lined up correctly and make a good swing you know where it will land. Stop trying to trick things up.

I have this issue just on fairway lies vs. the rough. I think my subconscious wants to try and lift the ball when it is sitting on a hard pan fairway (so I inevitably "hang back" without realizing it) vs. going after it when sitting in the rough (either sitting up or down). It drives me insane.

exaggerate to train yourself...move the ball back in your stance - will make it harder to hang back and lift - you have no choice but to hit down on it...then gradually work on proper ball position with that same feel. Don't over think it

Gracias.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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bowhuntr said:

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.After getting my swing plane more upright, I have found that my naturally, most consistent shot is a straight iron shot and a slight cut drive. Messing with a draw requires more timing on the release and more practice than I have time for.

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You can actually control and feel this???

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Not very well! That's why I hit more straight and cut shots. Less timing involved…by timing I mean how much I feel like I'm having to release the club or cross my forearms through contact.

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.After getting my swing plane more upright, I have found that my naturally, most consistent shot is a straight iron shot and a slight cut drive. Messing with a draw requires more timing on the release and more practice than I have time for.

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explain what more timing on the release means.

shot shape is determined by two things: club path and face angle

Why not just grip it and rip it and take your head out of it.


Seriously stop thinking about the doctor lady.

TXAGGIES said:

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Why not just grip it and rip it and take your head out of it.

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Because majority of golfers have a faulty grip. And most don't pay attention to it.

Bad swing begins with bad grip. To compensate.

One of the traits I notice watching the pros in person is how meticulously they grip and align for a shot. They grip the club beautifully.

This is what I was getting at

His path is likely staying the same and he's trying to manipulate face with his hands?

It's really hard to explain things online because real and feel are so vastly different

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It's really hard to explain things online because real and feel are so vastly different

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went to an instructor, got on the TrackMan. Wanted to know why it was hard for me to fade the ball.
My average swing was 4.25-5 deg club path inside out. I would have put money on I was close to 0 the way it "feels". I will never fade the ball like that. Can I make it curve left to right? Yes, with a club face WAY wide open, and it will start right and curve right. <== that is not a fade. A fade starts left of target and ends at target. This is what I am trying to accomplish.

Working on getting my average club path at 1 deg inside out has now allowed me to know how to hit a fade. I can get 2deg out/in and 2 deg in/out to do what I want. Hitting much more solid shots being closer to 0 (duh). The ability to control the ball is easier now. There is no such concept of more or less timing. Is there a "release" - yes, of course but its the same.

additional info...as I started to turn that 4-5 deg inside out into a 1-2 deg inside out club path, I was pulling a lot of shots...why? because I was so used to having to correct the face swinging 4-5 out in order to get it to draw over to target. Doing that 1-2 inside out was causing a small pull/hook. It just took time to understand where the face needs to be be on different club paths to hit the shot I want. Golf is hard.

EDIT: at the risk of being made fun of, here is the lesson where this is explained and visible. Note where the clubface is (behind the slot), and where it exits after contact (outside the slot) <== this is 4-5 deg in/out. Then the last swing, as explained, I felt more "over the top" - that was the feel, but it resulted in a clubhead in the slot on entry and exit. <== that's near 0

https://link.getonform.com/view?id=OIgVblkw1HfnuhCwqcQW

disclaimer: not an expert, just someone with a plus handicap (hopefully earns me some street cred) who geeks over this stuff and likes to help (or at least try). Open to play anyone with a fast backswing and a thick wallet.

Yes 100% exactly right

-Though I'm not opposed to a 4 degree inside path you probably will have smaller misses closer to 1 degree inside but it might give u a 2 way miss.

-It's very difficult to explain that the release for a draw and fade are essentially the same...you did a better job than me.

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-Though I'm not opposed to a 4 degree inside path you probably will have smaller misses closer to 1 degree inside but it might give u a 2 way miss.

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yes, but I would argue that the miss either way at 1 deg is going to be less frequent, but when it occurs, it will have tighter dispersion than would a 4deg miss that only misses to one side.

I had eliminated the left side of the course for a long time, but now I am hitting more shots left, but that's a sign of progress right now. I now no longer miss way right. If I miss it right, its still a decent shot.

with where I am with my game a 1-2 shots savings is huge, so the more detailed these things head towards.

When I'm swinging well, I'm inside out 2 deg with less than 10 deg face closed. Results in a nice draw that's playable. When I'm swinging poorly, 6-8 deg inside out with face closed more than 10 deg.

After trying to correct my swing path to square for years, I learned that I can't. Instead my focus should be continue to strive to swing at 2 deg inside out and do it consistently. Therefore my objective isn't to hit a straight ball rather hit a draw every time, all the time, forever.

my objective is not to hit a straight ball, but more about being able to hit both a fade and draw when I need to. Trying to go from 4-5 in/out to then 4-5 out/in is too extreme. I need something more narrow than that to be confident and not introduce too many variables.

if you watched my video link, my instructor even hinted at deciding IF I want to change what I was already doing - he seemed to think I am trying to be too perfect. BUT - that much in/out does some things with the dynamic loft that can hurt trajectory and height, so there's another upside to being closer to square.

Playing competitively and being a plus handicap you are probably right to need to start trying to play it both ways if u want to continue to improve. The other option would be speed training....or both

My buddy who plays pro taught me this shot. It let's u keep ur inside to out swing but ball has to move to right. I'm not good enough to try and play multiple shot shapes but I can do this and because it's same in to out path I can do it under pressure as well

This is for any shot up to like a 8 iron....maybe 7

Ball played off toe of back foot or even slightly behind, alignment is like 15 yards left of target. Play your normal draw swing. Because you are hitting so much down on the ball the ball has to start right and move right. It's a lower flight and typically half club shorter. Same path as your draw though

Hope I described it well enough over text but it's super helpful in quite a lot of situations especially with pins inside 140 on the right side of the green where u can just aim in the middle of green and let the ball move to the pin

Ben Hogan story (I heard, cannot validate):

Hogan asked another pro "what kind of shot do you play when you are leading by 1 in the 18th fairway and need par to win?"

pro: "well, you play the ball back in your stance and trap it and hit a low fa-"

...and before he could finish the word "fade", Hogan put his finger in his chest and said "you're damn right you do".

Ha

That's funny, never heard that story but that shot is dang consistent. The key to not try to hit the fade....try to hit the draw and it goes right every time with a low ball flight

Aggie369 said:

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This is what I was getting at

His path is likely staying the same and he's trying to manipulate face with his hands?

It's really hard to explain things online because real and feel are so vastly different

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Path was way too flat and swing was slightly over the top. I had to get lucky with the release of my club head to be consistent. Played to a 4 doing this because my short game saved me. Finally changed my plane to more upright - looks neutral to casual observer - and now my game has hardly any hook misses.

I would pay good money to never see a hook again. Looking up and seeing the ball screaming left makes me want to break my clubs and quit. It's driving me completely mad. My "natural" flight is a baby draw. However, since getting married and moving outside of town, I don't have the time to practice or play as much as I would like to. The closest driving range is ~ 30 minutes away.

When I do get the chance, I can get it to a fade during a range session and play that for a round or two until the ball flight inevitably starts moving left. Fade - straight - draw - then to hook and it stays there. Rinse and repeat.

I understand it's because my fault is sucking the club inside on the takeaway then having to time it and flip my hands at impact. The good news is I have good enough eye-hand coordination where I can play that flip decently well but the bad news is that's not how the golf swing is supposed to go and it invites negative variables that when combined makes me a raving lunatic on the course (at least on the inside haha).

ETA: I would pay even better money to completely forget about my backswing. I am so concerned and concentrated on it that it's pretty much all I think about with a club in my hand.