To chip and pitch?

For 37 years, I had hands forward, weight on the left, ball in front of the trailing foot. I struggled with digging club, chilly dip or thin skilled shots. Despite that, I have always kept a single digit handicap as low as index of 2.

Came across some videos of Bob Vokey and Roger Cleveland and a slew of YouTube instructors teaching using the bounce on chips and pitches from tight lies. It works amazingly well.

Sure I know how to use the bounce to lob from grassy lies and out of the bunker. But never used the bounce from tight lies.

How bout y'all?

Always use the bounce. Much more room for error.

Depends on the shot i need to play: high and soft, up front of mildly open stance, use bounce... low, skip, and check is leading edge back of stance.

BreNayPop said:

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Depends on the shot i need to play: high and soft, up front of mildly open stance, use bounce... low, skip, and check is leading edge back of stance.

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Actually, using the the bounce to chip creates a higher lofted shot and more spin. And you don't need open stance or open face to use the bounce.

When would you ever need to hit low skip and check? Wouldn't you want to hit low and roll?

I would use my PW for a run out shot.

Some of the greens around me are tiny raised inverted bowls and hitting a runner means hitting the side of the green with 2 inch bermuda rough which kills it, and going high in the west texas wind (esp into the wind) leaves it short or long if too aggressive too much of the time. Something low with check lands on the green with better distance control for me.

Of course, im an 8 handicap so clearly i could learn some new things. Putting and iron approaches seem to be my worst areas currently.

can you link some of the videos?

ruddyduck said:

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can you link some of the videos?

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Of course.







There are more. But the message is the same.

BreNayPop said:

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I would use my PW for a run out shot.

Some of the greens around me are tiny raised inverted bowls and hitting a runner means hitting the side of the green with 2 inch bermuda rough which kills it, and going high in the west texas wind (esp into the wind) leaves it short or long if too aggressive too much of the time. Something low with check lands on the green with better distance control for me.

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Got it!

jj9000 said:

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Google Monte Scheinblum Use the Bounce.

Might be the best $25 or so spent on teaching this.

Also...if you're playing hardpan Texas fairways and greens areas, Vokey M-grind is your friend.

That is, unless you take deep divots.

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Monte is awesome. Definitely better teacher than golfer. He floats around Orange County and Long Beach courses where I spent thousands of hours waiting to tee off in early 90s after I left A&M.

OP, I have also struggled for a long time with chips and pitches off tight lies, despite having a single digit handicap.

I finally found a solution by stumbling across a You Tube video. Some guy posted the entire video of Phil Mickelson's excellent "Secrets of the Short Game."

Link:


At some point in the video, Phil explains that the cause of the chunks and skulls are caused by either flipping the hands at the ball at impact (not holding the hinge), or not keeping the hands moving towards the target.

Some other Cliff notes from the video:
The idea is to keep the leading edge down
Make an aggressive through swing as possible and use backswing length to control distance
Two basic shots: ball positioned off the front foot instep for a higher shot; ball positioned opposite the back foot for a low shot. Never play the ball in between your feet.

As far as bounce on sand and lob wedges, Phil says there isn't a magic number. Anywhere from 8-12 degrees of bounce is fine. He says that by keeping the leading edge down using hinge and hold and keeping your hands moving through to the finish, you are able to use the bounce effectively.

Since using this approach, I am chipping and pitching much better, at least from the standpoint of making solid contact off tight lies more consistently. And when I don't, I know the fault and the fix.

On super firm conditions using a club with a lot of bounce will increase your chances of the club "bouncing" off of the hardpan, producing a skulled shot. A lot of guys used that low chip with a lot of check this past week at the open...

Heres a video of Duf explaining it...
https://www.secretgolf.com/videos/profiles/jason-dufner/chipping-pitching--putting/jason-dufner-pinch-and-sweep

Why is Duf using a tee?

Bounce every time.

So I have gone from a 0 to a 3 in the last five years. at least two of those three strokes are lost in my short game(the other is my desire to close down my stance). The thing is I have used the same two wedges for 10 years and only two sets of wedges in the last 15 years. Same clubs different results.

I have two problems. One is digging in the ground at impact and hitting them fat. The other is just understanding how hard to swing when I do make contact. I tend to hit my 54 degree way too hard, leaving myself ten plus feet coming back to the hole. It is infuriating.

Anyway a buddy of mine who is a +1 told me to ditch the 54 and 60 combo and go 50 58. I have a 50 degree Miura that I am putting in the bag but don't know what 58 to buy. I have never paid any attention to bounce so I guess I am going to have to watch some videos.

Why can you not bag a 50-54-58?

I switch out my last wedge between a 60 with 8 degrees bounce and a 58 with 12 degrees bounce depending on the course I'm playing and how firm it is vs. how much rough it has.

bmcghee03 said:

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Why can you not bag a 50-54-58?

I switch out my last wedge between a 60 with 8 degrees bounce and a 58 with 12 degrees bounce depending on the course I'm playing and how firm it is vs. how much rough it has.

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This is exactly what I do. I'm not saying it works but it's what works best for me...I think.

Resident wedge dork reporting for duty...

I like the way Faldo talks about bounce... he references it when talking about "finding out where the ground is." He's actually talking about the back of the sole, not the leading edge. I have a tendency to dig myself. I feel like the easiest way to get out of the duffs is to open the face a bit, thus introducing the back of the sole of the club (the bounce) to the ground. This way the club skids instead of digging. **Beware of the club actually bouncing up into the ball and skulling it off of tight/hardpan lies.**

alaska,

54* isn't much loft for your most lofted wedge... you could probably use some more. If you're sold on your 50*, a 58* might be a too big of gap between your wedges. I go 52, 56, 60. I know a lot of guys who go 52*, 58*. I'm just thinking 8* difference might be a bit much because you'd probably be looking at stock shots of 120-125 for your 50 and then more like 95 for your 58* (guessing here, but you get the point). I'm just of the belief that big yardage gaps in the scoring areas are something to avoid. I would hate to be 105 out and be handcuffed.

My suggestion would be to either:

A. Go with a 56 to pair with your 50 (even though it's only 2* weaker than your 54). It makes a world of difference in softening up shots vs a 54. Your stock 56 would probably be 105ish, which would be a pretty tough distance for a 50-58 set-up.

Or

B. Go 52,58 for the reasons above with the added benefit of the 58 softening shots even more.

One last suggestion re: bounce... I find it useful to vary the bounce of the wedges so that you have a club for every situation. My 60 has 8 degrees of bounce (that's as low as I'd recommend) for shots from firm turf or for firm traps and the occasional shot where I might actually want to dig. The 56 has 12 (about the most I'd recommend) for fluffy beach-sand type bunkers or if the conditions are sloppy and I need the club to resist digging. If you tend to dig/duff/chunk... maybe look for 10 or 12 degrees of bounce.

I think I've read alaska has a 5 wood in the bag that he really likes for getting at par 5's with in 2, so he's at 14 sticks with the 50 and 54.

maybe i don't read so good, but agalaska said he's carrying 54 and 60. 54 is not the most lofted wedge he's bagging.

I actually like the 54-60 combo. That's what I'm doing right now. 50-58 is a pretty big gap and you're gonna have to get creative with the 50 at times to cover it. I like the simplicity of standard gaps and 3 different backswings to provide a wide range of dialed in distances.

You're right, poor reading comprehension...

Thats exactly right. I have a 5 wood and a 3 iron so I can only carry two wedges below the PW. And yes there is a lot of overlap between the 3 iron and 5 wood but I hit them both very well and hit them both with regularity.

I managed just fine for most of my golf life with just two wedges but have considered the 50-54-58 combo and dumping one of the longer clubs. But assuming I stick with two the decision to get rid of the 60 I think has been made. I am going to get a 58. That 60 is just too much loft for 95% of the shots I need it for.

The reason to get rid of the 54 for a 50 is the 90-115 yard gap. For some reason I don't hit my sand wedges very far in comparison to my other clubs and there is a pretty good gap at around 110 yards. I would rely more on the 58 for ordinary chips.

Hell I don't know. Its just something different to try.

If it works for you then roll with it! If you are only going to carry two though I would say maybe even go 50-56 instead of the 58. I'd probably go 12 degrees bounce on the 56 or 58 and 10 degrees on the 50?

Tried the bounce at the range today. Wow does it really fly the ball. I'll def be using that when I want no roll out

I have a 48-52-58. Love the 48 and 52, it's complicated with the 58. I'm gonna try to play the bounce this afternoon instead of my recently developed turf-monster divot maker.

I'm going 48 - 52 - 58 right now, since my PW is 44. I'm thinking about bending my 52 to a 54 though, since my yardage gaps are a bit wonky.

44 goes 130
48 goes 115
52 goes 100
58 goes 80

I don't like that 20 yard gap in between the 52 and 58.

Question that may be slightly back on topic.. the 52 has 10 degrees of bounce and 58 has 8 degrees of bounce. If I bend the 52 to 54, I think it will add 2 degrees of bounce, making it 12?

bmcghee03 said:

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If it works for you then roll with it! If you are only going to carry two though I would say maybe even go 50-56 instead of the 58. I'd probably go 12 degrees bounce on the 56 or 58 and 10 degrees on the 50?

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Yea it does see. A little counter intuitive to go from a 54 to a 50 when my problem with the 54 is hitting it past the cup. I changed from a weak grip to a nor al/stronger grip about two years ago and this closed the clubface a little on my chips. Shouldn't have but it did. Now we I try to correct it and lay the 54 open a little i mis hit it.

I already own the 50 and just had it re gripped. It's an older Miura. I think i need a 58 over a 56. The answer may be 52-58.

I am going to get the 58 with a 10 bounce.

bmcghee03 said:

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If it works for you then roll with it! If you are only going to carry two though I would say maybe even go 50-56 instead of the 58. I'd probably go 12 degrees bounce on the 56 or 58 and 10 degrees on the 50?

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Yea it does see. A little counter intuitive to go from a 54 to a 50 when my problem with the 54 is hitting it past the cup. I changed from a weak grip to a nor al/stronger grip about two years ago and this closed the clubface a little on my chips. Shouldn't have but it did. Now we I try to correct it and lay the 54 open a little i mis hit it.

I already own the 50 and just had it re gripped. It's an older Miura. I think i need a 58 over a 56. The answer may be 52-58.

I am going to get the 58 with a 10 bounce.

khaos288 said:

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Tried the bounce at the range today. Wow does it really fly the ball. I'll def be using that when I want no roll out

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You're welcome.

dahouse said:

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I have a 48-52-58. Love the 48 and 52, it's complicated with the 58. I'm gonna try to play the bounce this afternoon instead of my recently developed turf-monster divot maker.

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You're welcome too. I already know you're gonna chip and pitch better.

I currently have 45, 50, 56, and 60.

Thinking about going to 45, 51, 58 and put 3 hybrid back in the bag.

Other option is to just take the 60 out. With the bounce pitch, I don't know that I need a 60 degree LW with 8 degree bounce that I just dig or skull.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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khaos288 said:

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Tried the bounce at the range today. Wow does it really fly the ball. I'll def be using that when I want no roll out

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You're welcome.

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haha thanks. It seemed really hard to gauge distance, but I'm guessing that'll come with practice.

It'll be nice not to have to plan around 10 yards of roll

khaos288 said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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khaos288 said:

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Tried the bounce at the range today. Wow does it really fly the ball. I'll def be using that when I want no roll out

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You're welcome.

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haha thanks. It seemed really hard to gauge distance, but I'm guessing that'll come with practice.

It'll be nice not to have to plan around 10 yards of roll

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But did you have some fat shots? Misses are still serviceable with this method.

Yes, we all try to hit the perfect great shots but the reality is, serviceable misses define the game of golf for us amateurs.

And I believe using the bounce gives us better chances than using the leading edge. I mean if you have a 14 to 16 degree bounce, don't try it on hard pan lie with no grass.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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khaos288 said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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khaos288 said:

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Tried the bounce at the range today. Wow does it really fly the ball. I'll def be using that when I want no roll out

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You're welcome.

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haha thanks. It seemed really hard to gauge distance, but I'm guessing that'll come with practice.

It'll be nice not to have to plan around 10 yards of roll

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But did you have some fat shots? Misses are still serviceable with this method.

Yes, we all try to hit the perfect great shots but the reality is, serviceable misses define the game of golf for us amateurs.

And I believe using the bounce gives us better chances than using the leading edge. I mean if you have a 14 to 16 degree bounce, don't try it on hard pan lie with no grass.

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No fatties, but one REALLY bad thin haha