The expression on Beef's face was priceless...

We will see a rule amendment on this rule to remove the 2 stroke penalty and change it to a DQ

Let's be honest here.

If you're pissed about this, you didn't like Phil to begin with.

I don't mind Phil. He's okay.

Therefore, this is stupid....Phil might be the most cerebral guy in the course. Of course he did this intentionally, and he had likely processed what it would cost him. Therefore he is held to the standard of the penalty. It's a fair move.

I love the analogy someone posted before about intentional pass interference in Football.

To the guy on his high horse about "would you be proud of your 12 year?". It's within the scope of the game. Sure!

I'm also okay with my 12 year old having intentional PI to stop a sure TD. In fact I'd be pissed if he didn't trip up that sure TD.

For those thinking Phil was just being smart taking the penalty, go look at what Beef said. Phil didn't have a clue what was going on. Didn't know the penalty, didn't know the rule, wasn't doing some equation in his head in the moment that told him stopping the ball and taking the penalty was better, he was just acting like a child.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Again, his intent is moot. The rules don't cover intent, nor should they. He made a stroke on a moving ball and incurred the penalty for it.

I've not said it was a smart play. I think the smartest play would have been letting it roll down the hill and then taking the unplayable.

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12thMan2012 said:

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For those thinking Phil was just being smart taking the penalty, go look at what Beef said. Phil didn't have a clue what was going on. Didn't know the penalty, didn't know the rule, wasn't doing some equation in his head in the moment that told him stopping the ball and taking the penalty was better, he was just acting like a child.

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I agree with everything here, but it is still just a 2 stroke penalty.

I do not think Phil knew the exact consequences of his actions, other than he would get penalized in some way. As others have said, intent does not matter, and as I stated above, I think his intent was basically I am out of contention and screwed this hole up so let's just keep everything moving so others do not have to spend extra time waiting for me to finish on this hole.

DannyDuberstein said:

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I think part of it was that it was kind of a whirlwind where he smacked the ball several times in a very short amount of time. So I would imagine a big part of the "i don't know" involved needing a moment to assess how many strokes he actually took. Again, David Fay didn't even know his score.

We've all walked off the green after a crazy hole and gone "ok, now WTF did I just make there?" and you walk back through it in your head. And may likely utter something not so nice, like "**** this" or "i don't give a ****" or whatever along with it. I think Phil had that moment we've all had and don't think it's worth DQing, tarnishing a legacy, or otherwise making a federal case out of it.

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This. I can totally see him telling Beef, "well, let's see here. I have no idea what I had. This will take a while to add up...especially when you effectively just 6-putted. "

I think a reasonable argument can made for either DQ or just a 2-stroke penalty. That's not an unusual problem for the rules of golf. Phil wasn't going to be in contention either way, so it doesn't really make a difference.

What is more important, in my opinion, is the fact that the dude just quit caring during a US Open. I don't think Phil's legacy should be tarnished or any of that nonsense. It wasn't some major disgrace. It's not nearly that big of a deal. THAT SAID....If I was out there playing with the guy, trying to keep my head in the game on an impossibly hard course, I wouldn't appreciate the lack of give-a-shznit from a legend of the game. It's just distracting. For that reason, I would have rather he just WD'd and gone home than resort to beer golf antics. Lots of credit to Beef though, he laughed it off and moved along. And that's why he's incredibly likeable.

Great stuff here.

willie wonka said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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I think part of it was that it was kind of a whirlwind where he smacked the ball several times in a very short amount of time. So I would imagine a big part of the "i don't know" involved needing a moment to assess how many strokes he actually took. Again, David Fay didn't even know his score.

We've all walked off the green after a crazy hole and gone "ok, now WTF did I just make there?" and you walk back through it in your head. And may likely utter something not so nice, like "**** this" or "i don't give a ****" or whatever along with it. I think Phil had that moment we've all had and don't think it's worth DQing, tarnishing a legacy, or otherwise making a federal case out of it.

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This. I can totally see him telling Beef, "well, let's see here. I have no idea what I had. This will take a while to add up...especially when you effectively just 6-putted. "

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Usually "that guy" stands on the edge of the green counting his strokes while I'm in the fairway waiting for him to get his ass in the cart!

Yeah, it helps when they stand greenside and point at every shot location while counting. Then when finally getting to the cart, take some time putting the clubs away, writing that high score down, asking what everyone else got, then taking time to wrote those down. Then after a good swig of cold beer to numb the pain of that 9, no wait, 10 you just made, hit the accelerator to go to the next tee.

I think the thing that makes this so unbelievable and head-scratching is that this was done by one of the game's historic and elite figures. Not some journeyman, but a guy who will be in the Hall of Fame. Regardless of which side of the DQ fence you fall on, it's just pretty mind boggling to me that this was done by a player of his caliber. It would be like LeBron coming off the bench to tackle Durant on a breakaway. (a la Tommy Lewis/ Dicky Maegle). The best reaction to all of this was Beef just laughing his ass off at what he had witnessed.

I'm surprised he's getting this much grace on these forums. I guess I'm just not as much of a fan of Lefty as most.

Anyone that pulls that crap in a professional golf setting should be instantly DQ'd, no questions asked.

Like someone said toward the beginning of this thread: if my child did that in a competitive tournament, I would personally DQ them and yank their ass out of the tournament so fast their head would spin. Everyone there laughed because it was awkward and there was no other appropriate reaction (I probably would have done the same), but in reality it's a chicken**** move when your playing professional golf and your playing partner is in contention to win the US Freeking Open. Interestingly, Johnston was +5 over during his last 4 holes after Phil's shenanigans. (He played the first 36 even.)

The reaction of the commentators says it all: they thought he was literally leaving the golf course after he finished the hole. They thought he was done....and he should have been.

Joe Buck is an aszhole that never misses an opportunity to endlessly ramble
on when it comes to an athlete who he judges to have a character flaw. Has ruined many an NFL broadcast with it. And Azinger isn't far behind. So both of their opinions meant dick to me.

Na I dont agree with that. People are making a really big deal about not a how lot. Guys break clubs, throw clubs in water, throw their shoes, cuss out their caddies, etc. in every tournament. He wasnt in contention and hit a rolling ball. Big deal.

At the end of the day these guys are human. He was playing like **** on a course in bad shape and got pissed off. I dont see why his reaction would be any different than yours or mine.

Beef was +13 before Phil's adventure. As much as we want to burn Phil at the stake, I don't think we can put Beef not winning the US Open on him

I don't know where you got the even after 36 stat. He was +6 after 36 and another + 7 on over 13 holes on Saturday.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Joe Buck is an aszhole that never misses an opportunity to endlessly ramble
on when it comes to an athlete who he judges to have a character flaw. Has ruined many an NFL broadcast with it. And Azinger isn't far behind. So both of their opinions meant dick to me.

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It wasn't so much their opinions that jumped out to me. Their genuine shock and genuine belief that he was leaving the golf course is what spoke volumes. I think the live broadcast hit the nail on the head: Phil was so aggravated that he couldn't help but do what he did. If I am on the rules committee for the USGA or the PGA, I would seriously consider making that a DQ in the future especially if there is ever true bifurcation of the rules. One of these days there will be a guy that's hits a moving ball and creates a significant advantage by doing so then there will really be an uproar. If that's even a possibility, the rule should be modified for pros.

It doesn't make a shred of sense that Phil would have been DQ'd for stopping the ball with his foot, but only gets a 2 stroke penalty for using his club instead.

Duckhook said:

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I think the thing that makes this so unbelievable and head-scratching is that this was done by one of the game's historic and elite figures. Not some journeyman, but a guy who will be in the Hall of Fame. Regardless of which side of the DQ fence you fall on, it's just pretty mind boggling to me that this was done by a player of his caliber. It would be like LeBron coming off the bench to tackle Durant on a breakaway. (a la Tommy Lewis/ Dicky Maegle). The best reaction to all of this was Beef just laughing his ass off at what he had witnessed.

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More like Lebron fouling someone when trailing by one so he has a chance to come back. Rule defined, penalty defined.

agsalaska said:

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I dont see why his reaction would be any different than yours or mine.

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Because he's Phil Mickelson and we aren't.

DannyDuberstein said:

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This isn't a problem that needs fixing. I dont know why so many are so eager to try to fix something that aint broke. That tap cost him 3 strokes and he took a friggin 10. Anyone else that does it will also take a BIG #.

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You've used a lot of sense on your posts on this topic.

Something that is hard to find in some of the national commentary on it, as well as other posters.

DannyDuberstein said:

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Appreciate the comments. I just think so many people these days have the mob mentality and are out for blood immediately when they really just need to step back and take a breath. Is it social media? Is it just how people are these days? I don't know. But this thing got so emotional so quickly.

And I'm still LOLing that Joe Buck thought he was leaving the course after.

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It's definitely not social media, because I'm on exactly zero forms of social media (unless you count TexAgs).

I'm glad he didn't get DQ'd because that's what he wanted. He wanted to be done. I'm glad he had to play on Sunday. Not wanting to talk to the media again tells me he wasn't proud of his actions.

There were wide ranging opinions on the PGA Tour radio channel yesterday from the commentators. The problem from listening to numerous different commentators is that the rules don't contemplate someone doing something as childish as he did. If he'd stopped the ball, waited a second and then hit it, he'd likely have been DQ'd under 1-2.

I wonder what the gentlemen of yesteryear think of the behavior of this Wolf Golf Hall of Famer? Guys like Gary Player, Tom Watson, etc. I doubt they approve.

And I'm not debating the rule. I'm talking about the behavior. A childish, petulant act from an elite professional. Whether he thought about it before or not, it's still pretty startling. Plenty of times in my professional career have I wanted to tell a customer or co-worker to f off. I've avoided it so far. Lots of grown-up ways to deal with things/situations

At least Sergio used his legs (2:08)