I think casey is onto something here. It's clearly Phil Mickelson's fault! Why did I not think of that?

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You can't penalize the group for missing the slow play marks unless you penalize all the players in the group.

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You don't really believe that, do you? I can play as fast as I want but can't move on to the next hole until the rest of the group is done. Usually it's 1 person holding up the group, not everyone. I'd play tournament rounds in 3-3.5 hours if possible, but rarely are they over in under 4.5. That's my fault because the other guys play slow?

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Officials singled out Dunlap’s group – he was paired with UCF’s Greg Eason and Arizona State’s Jon Rahm – because they missed pace-of-play checkpoints on both Nos. 18 and 9 (they started on 10 tee).

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Sounds like it was a group penalty by their explanation to me. If you don't have an official with each group, how can you individually fairly judge each participant in that group?

Sounds like the system used is thorough and that it idea is to identify groups that are slow. But to notify someone after the round, not during play, sounds like bs.

Guess there is only one thing to do- win it more next year

Time will tell if our coach and players felt it was the right call.

Peck definitely didn't agree with it, looking at his twitter feed.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/four-team-playoff-at-ncaas-for-final-spot-in-match-play/

Doesn't sound good. Sounds like we are trying to keep our head up though. Just bad timing.

And further, any penalty that takes a half hour to deliberate probably isn't in the true interest of the game. Black or white- it either is or isn't. This post-round deliberation isn't golf... It's side sport.

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@cameronpeckgolf: Glad I never have to deal with the @NCAA again. Worst organization in sports. Hope you got what you wanted.

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If the rounds are taking 5 plus hours then that is on organizers not the players

Disagree completely. These were 3somes sent off 10 minutes apart. No excuse for a 5 hour round. None. It's on the players.

Bs

Then they should be doing something before thirty minutes after the round is over.

why not call it on hole 15 or 16...or hell even 12 if it is that obvious....this is complete bull****.

and if they didn't have an official following every hole then how did they not call it on asu?

Danny,

I don't think any of us think a five hour round is acceptable. However, that and long rounds have been accepted by the NCAA every tournament this year. Why start enforcing a rule in your most important tournament when you haven't before?

The tweets say that Dunlap's group was told they were behind at 9, they caught up by 13, but then fell behind again. At the end, they were six minutes off target. Given that the target is 284 minutes (4 hours, 44 minutes), that doesn't seem excessive.

Also, as you know, there is an accordian effect with slow play: the groups ahead lag and lag and then they seem to sprint away from you. If you are having to wait and wait, it's tough to catch up when the group ahead suddenly starts moving faster. And the later in the round you are, and we were in the afternoon group, the worse it gets. If everyone is making it in just barely under the time limit, and apparently that was true, someone is bound to be late.

Finally, there is no adequate explanation as to why the ASU player wasn't given a penalty as well. One is left with the conclusion that the NCAA didn't want to disqualify one team for slow play, but they didn't mind throwing us into a play-off.

This stinks.

Talk about "slow play". They took 30 minutes after the round to assess the penalty? That's the NCAA for you.

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Finally, there is no adequate explanation as to why the ASU player wasn't given a penalty as well. One is left with the conclusion that the NCAA didn't want to disqualify one team for slow play, but they didn't mind throwing us into a play-off.

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Golf Channel ran the same report about 6 times in a row last night/this morning; what I heard was their group was followed for 11 holes and each player was timed, not just the group. Two of the players missed their marks, one didn't. That's why he wasn't penalized. As is usually the case, not everyone in the group is slow. This happens every weekend on any golf course across America- there's a guy or two in the group playing slow, not everyone all at once. If in fact each player was individually timed as reported, I'm fine with ASU not getting a penalty.

This is golf and a critical point in the tournament. They should have been warned by someone where they stood, once they caught up then fine but to hit them on the last few holes for not maintaining pace is wrong. Deliberations for 30 minutes after the round was over is poor management by NCAA.

Another case where someone wants to control your life and exercise judgement.

I was once a USTA tennis official. Mind you, tennis and golf are not the same, so take this for what it is worth.

As a USTA official, we were TAUGHT to not interject yourself into the contest unless you had to. And by all means, do not become the reason for the outcome of the match. You should be there to enforce the rules if needed, but do not go on a power trip because you're in a position of authority.

I doubt that a golf official is taught much different. However, this official made him or herself a part of the game, and at a vital point in the tournament. I have a problem with that, as a sports fan, and a former official.

I don't mind the NCAA taking 30 minutes if it means the correct decision is made.

It sucks to be on the **** end of this stick, but the fact is our player played slow, got warned, slowed down again, and was apparently individually timed as being one of the slow culprits. So as much as it pains me, I think we deserved the penalty. And if they weren't enforcing the rule thoroughly enough before, then that was a problem with those tournaments, not this one. I want to see this kind of thing enforced.

Admittedly, slow play is a hot button for me. There's no excuse for 3 guys needing 5 hours. That's pathetic.

Lots of whining in this thread. Sounds to me like there were clear times for the group to beat (not a "target", but a limit), as well as individual timings on the players in the group once they fell behind. Our guy was slow, as was another player in the group. They should be penalized. Whether or not it's something that's always enforced or not, doesn't really matter. If you break rules, there's always a chance you get caught. Sure, it would be nice (for our team) if they had ignored the rule, like they do most of the time, but they didn't.

Slow play impacts your playing partners, and groups behind you. The rules are in place to protect the field from that.

If this was enforced throughout the year and was an emphasis throughout the entire season by the NCAA then that is one thing. From what I have read the NCAA determined that it needed to make it an emphasis in this tournament and it was not an emphasis the rest of the season. If in the NBA they never called traveling all season and then all of a sudden in the NBA finals they call traveling like it is supposed to be called then the officials unnecessarily impacted the game. If you don't call it all season, you shouldn't start at the national championship tournament. There is a reason the NFL officials are given points of emphasis for the season before the preseason even starts. They want to make sure the teams understand how a rule is going to be implemented before getting to a game that matters. Awful, awful, awful.

The problem is that the officials can and did selectively enforce the rule. We are talking about one of the last groups to finish. If each group was started 10-minutes apart and everybody plays to that pace, then each round would last 3-hours. In watching the scoring, there was not an excessive amount of time that scores were posted as this or any other group finished at 9.

It is ridiculous to change the outcome of a tournament 30-minutes after completion of play. That is messing with the "fabric of the game", and opens the door for judges to name the champions they want instead of winners being determined by play on the course. Penalties should be assessed as they occur, not after the fact. And no team/player should be made an example of.

I haven't seen it brought up here- just how far behind the group in front of them were they?

If some of their time was spent waiting on the group ahead to tee off or clear the field, then that time should be deducted.

Did the group ahead finish and then we can straggling in 20 minutes later?

If THAT was the case, then indeed someone (our coach???) should have pointed out on hole 14 or 15 that "HEY, the group ahead of you is two holes away..."

If we were only 5 minutes or so behind where we should have been, then there should be some kind of leeway built in, especially if we ever had to wait on the group ahead at any time.

Did ASU coach request timers?

I am really bummed by this decision, although I don't have perfect information.

What I have read on this thread is that the group was behind and warned at 9, and caught up again by 13.

Coming down the stretch (ie, the last five holes), these were the A players from 3 teams that were all in the hunt for a spot in the top 8, so I can certainly see why all of them would use extra caution on every shot. Every shot was extremely critical to their team's fate at that point.

And to end 6 minutes behind the checkpoint? So what. It seemed like great golf to me.

So, nice 35-foot putt on 18, Tyler, but we're going to put it down as a two-putt because you took too long to line it up.

That just screams BS to me.


And I don't see how one guy in the group can make his time mark and the other two can't. Is he just always hitting first or something?

I just think the whole thing is stupid, and I do not accept it as normal, fair enforcement of the rules, because it is just not. Not consistently applied throughout the season.

Rulings like this take the game away from the players, and there is no honor in that. There appears to be no sign of deliberate slow play IMO.

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And I don't see how one guy in the group can make his time mark and the other two can't. Is he just always hitting first or something?

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Sure you can. You time how long it takes a player to hit the ball once it's his turn to do so.

On every hole, if it takes me 30 seconds to hit a ball and my partner takes 60 seconds, whose fault is it for the group being slow?

Did they call a slow play penalty on tiger on 18 in the 08 us open when it took him 10 minutes to read his putt ? I watch the replay of that the other day, I swear he spent 10 minutes reading that thing.

BS decision. Play on the course determined A&M was one of the top 8 and then they were pencil whipped in the clubhouse after the fact.

Seems like a pretty harsh penalty too me. Guy drains a 50 ft putt on 17 for birdie and then a 35 ft one for par to get into match play. The other two guys penalized were meaningless. Both teams were out of the race. What I don't like is this is an obscure rule that doesn't seem to be enforced through the year and now in the championship you're going to enforce it? Doesn't make much sense.

Here's a good article from Golf Digest : http://golfweek.com/news/2013/may/30/slow-play-penalty-costs-aggies-match-play-berth/

There are some good quotes from Dunlap in there. I don't like the call but I'm not sure if it's correct or not. But from reading Tyler's quotes I do know why I'm proud the be an Aggie.

Good job, Tyler. Good luck, next year.

Man, that's tough.

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A rules official spent 11 holes with the group, timing shots. There were multiple bad times against two of the players.

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You think if they were so concerned about time, they just would have had an official saying "hurry up boys, you're 10 minutes behind and I've been informed that you WILL be assessed a stroke penalty if you don't make it to 18 by 2:30pm."

On the other hand, assuming this weasel wasn't hiding behind bushes and outhouses, you would think the players would be on notice that there is some ****** timing them on every hole and they better a) pick up the pace or b) ask him what the deal is and if they are at any kind of risk.

This was either horribly managed from a team standpoint, or horribly implemented from a tournament standpoint. Not sure which.

You can't have officials babysit the players. The offending group was already told that they missed their time after the turn.

Bottom line, Dunlap and the coaches fked up. That's a harsh thing to say but nobody else is to blame for this mess. Just sucks that it had to happen to us.

I know it's tough to continue following this tournament after what happened to Dunlap, but there's some good golf being played right now.

All three teams that made it out of the playoff (New Mexico, UNLV and Arizona State) all lost in the first round. Final four is going on right now...

Cal vs. Illinois
Alabama vs. Georgia Tech

No. 1 Cal is in some trouble right now. All the matches are on their last 3-4 holes. Illinois has already won one and is 2-up with three to go in another. Cal is 4-up in an early match. The other two matches are all square. Assuming they don't come back in the 2-down with three to play match, Cal needs to win both of the all square matches to advance.

Bama is in good shape to get by Georgia Tech.

If Bama ends up playing Cal in the final, it would make me feel a little better about the Dunlap situation. Anything can happen in match play, but I think we would have had trouble getting by either of them. They've been the two clear cut best teams all season.

Illinois finished off Cal, 3-2. The deciding match went to the 20th hole. They'll play Bama for all the marbles.

[This message has been edited by DannyDuberstein (edited 6/1/2013 4:45p).]

They were 6 minutes late. Over 72 strokes that is approximately 5 seconds per swing. That is literally one more practice stroke per swing. Is that worth a stroke penalty?

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They were 6 minutes late...Is that worth a stroke penalty?

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Unfortunately, yes.

I see some are still trying to defend the ridiculous decision that cost A&M a chance at the title.

Here is an article that cuts against a lot of the BS spin used in the weak attempt to justify the NCAA's actions.

http://digitalmag.globalgolfpost.com/20130603/20130603EURO#&pageSet=29&page=0