Keep in mind that this is the same board that said Derek Farmer and Courtney Lewis were better than Benson, Dante Hall was better than Ricky Williams, Mark Johnson was better than Augie Garrido, Mark Farris was better than Chris Simms, Bethel Johnson was better than Roy Williams, Sammy Davis was better than Jammer, Austin Boggs was better than Drew Stubbs, and Scott Beerer was better than Huston Street.

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I'd be willing to make it on gentlemen's terms where we determine whether he's considered by his team to be a QB or some other position based on all available information, and if we can determine it to both of our satisfaction, the bet is paid. I won't do it based on snaps the first year because I doubt he'll get any or many.

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Deal. So what do you want to bet?

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Regarding the first, you had the team take their names of their jerseys. Next, you might take the ATM off the helmets.

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I'm assuming this is one of your attempts at smack. Funny, I thought the kids played hard in that game. We just lost to a much better team. Sounds like you missed the whole point of the names on the jerseys thing.

VY=ROSEBOWL
RM=LOSS TO TENNESSEE (cotton bowl 38-7)

VY=WIN AGAINST Aggie
RM=LOSS AGAINST BAYLOR

VY= 7-1 last season
RM= 5-3 Last season
ENOUGH SAID

CMack - I agree that your boys played hard, and that we were a much better team. Our own boys didn't wake up until the second half. I went and watched the tape because Hostel Ag said the game wasn't decided until 5 minutes were left in the game. I'm old and my memory sucks, so I watched it again because I was at the game and remember never being worried. It was decided before the coin flip.

The deal is done on gentlemen's terms. How about lunch sometime when I'm in Austin (about ten times a year) or if you get to Houston. We'll keep it flexible. Look forward to meeting you. This year's T+1 game should be much more competitive.

Uva Uvum Vivendo Varia Fit

Dub, I watch the Rose Bowl at least once every 2 weeks.

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I'm old and my memory sucks, so I watched it again because I was at the game and remember never being worried. It was decided before the coin flip.

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I don't know about the whole 'coin flip' thing. I ended up having to watch the game w/ my longhorn friends, and I have to say that you must have nerves of steel, because my buddies were worried as Hell @ halftime. I, on the other hand, was thinking at halftime we would have to really turn it on to win, even after that great play.

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The deal is done on gentlemen's terms. How about lunch sometime when I'm in Austin (about ten times a year) or if you get to Houston. We'll keep it flexible. Look forward to meeting you. This year's T+1 game should be much more competitive.

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Sounds good to me.

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This is average ppg for the season, which I would imagine would translate well to scoring on % of their drives:

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Maybe, maybe not. The offense we have now grinds it out more. The great thing about our offense last year was that it could keep other teams' offenses off the field.

It would not surprise me if we had a lot few possessions last year with Young at the helm that we did with Simms or Applewhite.

That would translate into a better percentage.

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I can only conclude that you didn't watch the Okie State game. Or the Kansas game. Or the Tech game. Or the Rose Bowl.

Texas, w/ VY at the helm, scores a significantly higher % of their drives than w/ Simms, Mock, or Applewhite at the helm.

Cedric rushed for a lot of yards, yet Young still accounted for more than 3000 yards of offense.

So...no, he isn't.

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1: No he didnt, VY accounted for just over 2,500 yards of offense

2: No, they dont. Both Simms and Applewhite had higher PPG averages than VY does, and they turned it over less.

3: In the Tech game, the Texas defense shut down Tech. If not for the defense, Texas would have been out of the Kansas game by halftime because their offense was playing so poorly.

"significantly higher % of their drives"

That is different than points per game.

VY killed Texas Tech. Are you denying that?

And the Texas offense piled up stats against Kansas - just not on the scoreboard.

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"significantly higher % of their drives"

That is different than points per game.

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I guess so. But since it's just a stat that WE Henly guessed at we'll never know if it's true or not. I'll stick to ppg as a good measure of offensive efficiency by a QB.

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And the Texas offense piled up stats against Kansas - just not on the scoreboard.

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You have GOT to be the biggest idiot on the planet....

Rallying to beat KANSAS... great.

Our special teams and defense scored a lot more in those years than they did with VY (Vasher & Selvin used to take it to the house).

Major and Simms turned the ball over more than Vince did.

Our offense chews up time -- so our drives use up a lot more clock than they used to (we would go 3 and out a lot, but would score quickly on long pass plays that Roy or BJ would break). I have seen the breakdown of Vince, Major, and Simms'TD to drive ratio -- Vince was about 30-40% higher than Major or Simms' best years.

2928 vs 3000. Ton of difference. I admit that I looked at just yards gained without looking at net yards gained, but the point is still the same.

You don't put up 35 ppg with a "caretaker" QB. To insist that VY is similar to Dilfer in that respect is moronic.

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But since it's just a stat that WE Henly guessed at

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As for this, someone on Orangebloods (I think) did an exhaustive analysis of points put up per drive. Of course the drives led by VY took longer than the typical Simms drive. PPG is not more valid than points per drive. I'd rather put up 35 ppg with long scoring drives that rest my defense than 39 ppg with a quick strike offense.

Randy, your wisdom is exceeded only by your ignorance.

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Major and Simms turned the ball over more than Vince did.

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Go look at the stats.
98--Major had 11 INT
99--Major had 9 INT
00--Major and Simms had 7 INT each
01--Simms had 11 INT
02--Simms had 12 INT

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Vince was about 30-40% higher than Major or Simms' best years.

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I FINALLY found something about points per drive on the texassports website. They didn't have cumulative stats for 2004 or for 2002, but here's what I found:

1998 (major)--41%
1999 (major)--36%
2000 (major)--42%
2000 (simms)--40%
2001 (simms)--44%
2003 (radio)--52%

VY is higher, but not 30-40%. Maybe he was last year, but it looks pretty close to me. I doubt texas scored on 80% of their drives last year w/ VY at the helm.

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As for this, someone on Orangebloods (I think) did an exhaustive analysis of points put up per drive.

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Whatever. They looked it up on the texassports website, just like I did. Took me about 10 minutes.

Clearly the way to increase your ppg average is to fatten up on weak nonconference schools like North Texas and Rice.

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1: No he didnt, VY accounted for just over 2,500 yards of offense

2: No, they dont. Both Simms and Applewhite had higher PPG averages than VY does, and they turned it over less.

3: In the Tech game, the Texas defense shut down Tech. If not for the defense, Texas would have been out of the Kansas game by halftime because their offense was playing so poorly.

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You're stupid or misinformed, or some combo.

1 - As shown, it was just under 3000 yards, not "just over 2500"

2 - As shown, points per drive is not the same thing as points per game.

3 - Texas' defense was exceptionally poor against Kansas. I don't know what game you were watching, but Kansas had its third string QB in and Texas got lit up for 308 yards passing. As good as Greg Robinson was for Texas, this game more than any other lessened the pain of losing him to Syracuse.

Also, didn't Tech score 21 points? I understand why an Aggie would think that was "shutting them down", but I don't consider 3 TD's a shut down.

So Texas beat Tech 51-21. Yeah, I can see why you consider VY a caretaker QB. That's a pretty typical score for someone led by an inept QB.

or smu...or ULL

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Whatever. They looked it up on the texassports website, just like I did. Took me about 10 minutes.

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Thanks for the work. And thanks for proving my point and proving that Hostile Ag is a fricking idiot.

We tried to put Accordian on the schedule but our high ethical standards would have been compromised when we found out only women go to accordian.

Fran is way too chickenshti to face DADDY at home in a night game.

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You're stupid or misinformed, or some combo.

1 - As shown, it was just under 3000 yards, not "just over 2500"

2 - As shown, points per drive is not the same thing as points per game.

3 - Texas' defense was exceptionally poor against Kansas. I don't know what game you were watching, but Kansas had its third string QB in and Texas got lit up for 308 yards passing. As good as Greg Robinson was for Texas, this game more than any other lessened the pain of losing him to Syracuse.

Also, didn't Tech score 21 points? I understand why an Aggie would think that was "shutting them down", but I don't consider 3 TD's a shut down.

So Texas beat Tech 51-21. Yeah, I can see why you consider VY a caretaker QB. That's a pretty typical score for someone led by an inept QB.

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1: http://texas.rivals.com/indleaders.asp?Team=TEXAS&Year=

VY: 2,556 Total Yards

And no, I'm not counting Bowl game stats, nor do I ever count anyone's Bowl stats. Changing the rule to count them was a stupid decision on CFs part and messes with records set before it was allowed.

2: I dont care about scoring effienciency, I care about points. And, as shown above, VY turned the ball over more than Simms or Applewhite. So he didnt put up as many points and turns it over more, nice work Radio.

3: Again, how many points did you give up against Kansas?

Texas was up 44-14 at one point, and the last TD was pointless. Texas gave up 14 points for 53 minutes, thats pretty good against the best offense in the nation.

Also, Tech's defense is hardly a juggernaut.

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Thanks for the work. And thanks for proving my point and proving that Hostile Ag is a fricking idiot.

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Says the blind man as he walks into oncoming traffic...

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And no, I'm not counting Bowl game stats, nor do I ever count anyone's Bowl stats. Changing the rule to count them was a stupid decision on CFs part and messes with records set before it was allowed.

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Had McKneel's and VY's roles been reversed, it would have been a brilliant decision on CF's part.

You got me Patch, I'm so honored you took time out of your bust day a-holing kittens to discover the true meaning behind that post. Well done.[/sarcasm]

CMack - My state of mind was probably influenced by the following:

1. For the first 12 plays or so for each team, I watch the lines instead of the ball. Both our offensive and defensive lines were beating yours badly.

2. I had seen all the other UT games last year, and three things had become apparent by T+1: That our team played up or down to the level of their opponents, we dominated everyone except OU in the third quarter, and when pressed, Vince would find a way to win. I became a believer before the A&M game.

3. As the game continued, it became apparent that A&M couldn't move the ball inside our 35 yard line except by a long pass, and McNeal's time to throw was getting briefer and briefer. I think I counted up nine sacks and he must have been hit more than 20 times. That's no stat for a passing game. He was just throwing it away in the fourth quarter. We were moving the ball by running Ced and an occasional pass to a tight end. Vince never even had to run much. If you ever want to see what would have happened if we'd needed it, borrow a tape of the Rose Bowl.

Uva Uvum Vivendo Varia Fit

1. I see. Because YOU don't count them, WE shouldn't count them, even though the NCAA counts them.

Simply brilliant.

2. In your mind, it's not important as to how many points someone puts up compared to how many opportunities he has?

So, if you were a coach, you'd rather have a QB who puts up 39 pts per game with an average drive of (I'm making this up) 3 minutes over a QB who puts up 35 points per game with an average drive of 7 minutes?

Well, you've cleared up the stupid vs. misinformed question.

3 - UT gave up 23 points to Kansas, who had their 3rd string QB in. Are you suggesting that's good? Again, it was a poor defensive performance. If UT had a caretaker QB, they would have lost. Fortunately, they have a dynamic QB who won the game with both his legs AND his arm.

re Tech - How many points did savior Reggie put up against that non-juggernaut?

I'm not trying to say the defense played poorly against Tech, but they've played better games against prolific Tech offenses.

[This message has been edited by W.E. Henley (edited 6/15/2005 2:09p).]