I don't usually support Ketch. But when I do he's trying to take down baylol. I don't care the reason.
Fat Ketch thinks he's personally bringing Baylor down....
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Last: 8 yr ago by jickyjack1
quote:quote:Zero, until the accused has been indicted.quote:What duty does Art owe to a potential victim whom he is aware has stated that a rape occurred?quote:That may be evidence of corruption in the law enforcement agencies, which of course can't be tolerated. But punishing Art Briles for it is misguided.
By your own stat, either 4 or 5 of the accusations against Baylor football players have merit. Both the University and Waco PD either actively or passively chose not to pursue the "credible" accusations; thats enough to piss me off, at least.
Maybe its because I have daughters.
Wholly false, there's a whole series of title 9 requirements when anyone associated with the school is made aware of a sexual assault.
quote:Interesting. Ill carry on then.quote:Zero, until the accused has been indicted.quote:What duty does Art owe to a potential victim whom he is aware has stated that a rape occurred?quote:That may be evidence of corruption in the law enforcement agencies, which of course can't be tolerated. But punishing Art Briles for it is misguided.
By your own stat, either 4 or 5 of the accusations against Baylor football players have merit. Both the University and Waco PD either actively or passively chose not to pursue the "credible" accusations; thats enough to piss me off, at least.
Maybe its because I have daughters.
quote:quote:I don't understand this whole Gaylor scandal.
He may be a fat slob but I love how he's calling them out.
Apparently you're supposed to kick a guy off the team and ruin his career as soon as someone makes an allegation against him, due process be damned?
Seems like a dangerous road to go down. Roughly half of all rape allegations are false, and I'm sure the percentage goes up quite a bit when the accused has money (or potential earnings).
You surely have no idea what you are talking about.
Baylor soccer player alleges that baylor football player raped her.
Baylor does nothing.
She takes it to court.
Baylor still does nothing.
A jury feels enough evidence exists to indict the football player with a felony sexual assault charge.
Baylor does something: they give him a degree, admit him to grad school, refuse to move him from the girl's classes, reduce her scholarship, and eventually force her to transfer to another university.
Trial proceeds, and he is found guilty of felony sexual assault.
That's just one situation out of an alarming number of rape accusations against baylor football players. Now there is evidence that baylor worked in conjunction with waco pd to hide criminal allegations and criminal proceedings.
I don't know how you can look at baylor and not be disgusted at the depravity that has gone on under their watch.
Title 9 is the correct answer. And, to address your edit: Briles is not required to investigate, but to only report it to the proper medium who will then conduct an investigation.
Briles failed to do so, and his negligence fostered a "rape-friendly" environment.
Briles failed to do so, and his negligence fostered a "rape-friendly" environment.
Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God.
quote:quote:Zero, until the accused has been indicted. Art Briles is not a detective.quote:What duty does Art owe to a potential victim whom he is aware has stated that a rape occurred?quote:That may be evidence of corruption in the law enforcement agencies, which of course can't be tolerated. But punishing Art Briles for it is misguided.
By your own stat, either 4 or 5 of the accusations against Baylor football players have merit. Both the University and Waco PD either actively or passively chose not to pursue the "credible" accusations; thats enough to piss me off, at least.
Maybe its because I have daughters.
Ukwuachu was indicted. Briles and baylor did NOTHING.
quote:He asked what Art owes, not what Title IX says he owes, and certainly not what the terrible "Dear Colleague" letter misinterprets Title IX to mean he owes. As such, it is a matter of opinion, and I stated mine, based on my understanding of human rights as protected by the Constitution.quote:Wholly false, there's a whole series of title 9 requirements when anyone associated with the school is made aware of a sexual assault.quote:Zero, until the accused has been indicted.
What duty does Art owe to a potential victim whom he is aware has stated that a rape occurred?
I mean, what does the victim actually gain by immediately benching the player before due process?
Are people worried that the guy is going to rape opposing players?
Is the victim going to be "traumatized" by seeing him play on TV in the meantime? Change the ****ing channel.
On the other hand, if the case gets thrown out, you have damaged the man's career and reputation, and there's no way to take that back.
Are people worried that the guy is going to rape opposing players?
Is the victim going to be "traumatized" by seeing him play on TV in the meantime? Change the ****ing channel.
On the other hand, if the case gets thrown out, you have damaged the man's career and reputation, and there's no way to take that back.
The accused are a few of Baylor's top athletes. Baylor directly benefits from keeping them on the field. More wins=more money.
quote:Which is why I said up front that I didn't understand the Gaylor scandal.quote:quote:I don't understand this whole Gaylor scandal.
He may be a fat slob but I love how he's calling them out.
Apparently you're supposed to kick a guy off the team and ruin his career as soon as someone makes an allegation against him, due process be damned?
Seems like a dangerous road to go down. Roughly half of all rape allegations are false, and I'm sure the percentage goes up quite a bit when the accused has money (or potential earnings).
You surely have no idea what you are talking about.
Baylor soccer player alleges that baylor football player raped her.
Baylor does nothing.
She takes it to court.
Baylor still does nothing.
A jury feels enough evidence exists to indict the football player with a felony sexual assault charge.
Baylor does something: they give him a degree, admit him to grad school, refuse to move him from the girl's classes, reduce her scholarship, and eventually force her to transfer to another university.
Trial proceeds, and he is found guilty of felony sexual assault.
That's just one situation out of an alarming number of rape accusations against baylor football players. Now there is evidence that baylor worked in conjunction with waco pd to hide criminal allegations and criminal proceedings.
I don't know how you can look at baylor and not be disgusted at the depravity that has gone on under their watch.
Thanks for the info. That is pretty slimy.
But all the other cases of rape accusations that didn't lead to immediate suspensions are entirely irrelevant. But that's what a lot of people seem to be focusing on.
A lot of you need to understand what the Title IX requirements for colleges regarding potential rape victims are.
For the criminal aspect of a rape accusation, the regular due process of constitutional guarantees is correct and appropriate. No reasonable person would suggest otherwise.
Title IX however, specifically charges universities which accept federal financial student aid to perform certain functions in order to help the potential victim. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS CONVICTING THE ALLEGED ASSAILANT but includes simple stuff like transferring her to other classes, providing counseling, etc. These things help keep the student safe and keep her from dropping out due to the alleged rape.
Baylor not only failed to do those things required under Title IX, they actively tried to run off girls who made allegations against football players. So Baylor committed not only sins of omission (not doing enough), but sins of commission (actively doing bad stuff).
Whether Art Briles knew of these details or not is irrelevant - he is paid a 7 figure salary to be responsible for every aspect of the football program. He is ultimately responsible for every win - every loss - every dollar earned - every DWI - every rape - every bowl game trip - the sale of every seat in the new stadium. If something is this broken in the football program, Briles should be fired because either (a) he knew about it; or (b) he didn't know about it.
For the criminal aspect of a rape accusation, the regular due process of constitutional guarantees is correct and appropriate. No reasonable person would suggest otherwise.
Title IX however, specifically charges universities which accept federal financial student aid to perform certain functions in order to help the potential victim. THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS CONVICTING THE ALLEGED ASSAILANT but includes simple stuff like transferring her to other classes, providing counseling, etc. These things help keep the student safe and keep her from dropping out due to the alleged rape.
Baylor not only failed to do those things required under Title IX, they actively tried to run off girls who made allegations against football players. So Baylor committed not only sins of omission (not doing enough), but sins of commission (actively doing bad stuff).
Whether Art Briles knew of these details or not is irrelevant - he is paid a 7 figure salary to be responsible for every aspect of the football program. He is ultimately responsible for every win - every loss - every dollar earned - every DWI - every rape - every bowl game trip - the sale of every seat in the new stadium. If something is this broken in the football program, Briles should be fired because either (a) he knew about it; or (b) he didn't know about it.
The point of firing Briles isn't because rapes either happened or are alleged to have happened. (Is it two "former" players have already been convicted?) The point is the institutional complete disregard for accusers, and active cover up for the accused rapists.
I'm not condoning firing without due process. Ironically, that's exactly why Briles is in hot water; for being an active participant in dismissing accusations of sexual assault: denying due process.
I'm not condoning firing without due process. Ironically, that's exactly why Briles is in hot water; for being an active participant in dismissing accusations of sexual assault: denying due process.
Schizo, here is a Title IX FAQ provided by the US Dept. of Education. Specifically, see A-4 and A-5--those sections may help you to better understand the University's (and, its employees) duties to the accused and the accuser.
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/qa-201404-title-ix.pdf
http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/qa-201404-title-ix.pdf
quote:quote:He asked what Art owes, not what Title IX says he owes, and certainly not what the terrible "Dear Colleague" letter misinterprets Title IX to mean he owes. As such, it is a matter of opinion, and I stated mine, based on my understanding of human rights as protected by the Constitution.quote:Wholly false, there's a whole series of title 9 requirements when anyone associated with the school is made aware of a sexual assault.quote:Zero, until the accused has been indicted.
What duty does Art owe to a potential victim whom he is aware has stated that a rape occurred?
By law, art was required to comply with the law. That's the point, and what is "owed" to the alleged victim.
If your argument is that Art Briles human rights were somehow violated because he had the terrible burden of lawfully being forced to report a potential crime as a representative of the school, your idea of human rights is just slightly different than mine, and likely most folks here.
Some of you just seem to have problems with Title IX. That's fine - take it up with your congressman. But that is the law as of today.
Don't try to plead some type of jury nullification mentality that Briles isn't guilty because the law is unjust.
Don't try to plead some type of jury nullification mentality that Briles isn't guilty because the law is unjust.
quote:Wrong. He wasn't asking me to describe the law. He was asking me what I thought he owed. The law says I owe illegal immigrants a college education, but I am entitled to a contrary opinion.quote:By law, art was required to comply with the law. That's the point, and what is "owed" to the alleged victim.quote:He asked what Art owes, not what Title IX says he owes, and certainly not what the terrible "Dear Colleague" letter misinterprets Title IX to mean he owes. As such, it is a matter of opinion, and I stated mine, based on my understanding of human rights as protected by the Constitution.quote:Wholly false, there's a whole series of title 9 requirements when anyone associated with the school is made aware of a sexual assault.quote:Zero, until the accused has been indicted.
What duty does Art owe to a potential victim whom he is aware has stated that a rape occurred?
quote:No, but keep the strawmen coming. They're amusing, and this is OR after all.
If your argument is that Art Briles human rights were somehow violated because he had the terrible burden of lawfully being forced to report a potential crime as a representative of the school, your idea of human rights is just slightly different than mine, and likely most folks here.
Fat Ketch is fat!
So after all the responses, do you at least somewhat see what Art is in hot water for?
quote:Yes.
So after all the responses, do you at least somewhat see what Art is in hot water for?
- Based on titanmaster's post, I now understand what he did that was wrong and deserving of punishment.
- Based on everyone else's posts, I now understand what he did that might have been illegal under a stupid law / interpretation thereof, and is likely to get him fired.
I would argue that it goes beyond Title IX. Art's negligence (common law) resulted in more victims.
quote:quote:Wrong. He wasn't asking me to describe the law. He was asking me what I thought he owed. The law says I owe illegal immigrants a college education, but I am entitled to a contrary opinion.quote:By law, art was required to comply with the law. That's the point, and what is "owed" to the alleged victim.quote:He asked what Art owes, not what Title IX says he owes, and certainly not what the terrible "Dear Colleague" letter misinterprets Title IX to mean he owes. As such, it is a matter of opinion, and I stated mine, based on my understanding of human rights as protected by the Constitution.quote:Wholly false, there's a whole series of title 9 requirements when anyone associated with the school is made aware of a sexual assault.quote:Zero, until the accused has been indicted.
What duty does Art owe to a potential victim whom he is aware has stated that a rape occurred?quote:No, but keep the strawmen coming. They're amusing, and this is OR after all.
If your argument is that Art Briles human rights were somehow violated because he had the terrible burden of lawfully being forced to report a potential crime as a representative of the school, your idea of human rights is just slightly different than mine, and likely most folks here.
So in a thread about art briles ignoring a rape to play a football player, you bring up the constitution, human rights, illegal immigration, disregard title 9 entirely and a host of other things, and I'm creating a straw man by pointing it out. interesting...but yes you are entitled to an opinion. The point we were making is that legally he owes her that, and opinions don't override law.
But it's not worth arguing over, gotta get back to bashing briles and Baylor.
quote:Therefore..............Briles should be charged with rape and put in jail!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would argue that it goes beyond Title IX. Art's negligence (common law) resulted in more victims.
quote:Thats exactly how it works.quote:Therefore..............Briles should be charged with rape and put in jail!!!!!!!!!!!!
I would argue that it goes beyond Title IX. Art's negligence (common law) resulted in more victims.
Edit: Never mind. You get the last word.
KCEN news (Waco) reporting that Ken Starr is out.
http://www.kcentv.com/story/32051880/baylor-president-ken-starr-fired
http://www.kcentv.com/story/32051880/baylor-president-ken-starr-fired
quote:He must have agreed to $5M, if it went that fast. He should have held out for more.
KCEN news (Waco) reporting that Ken Starr is out.
http://www.kcentv.com/story/32051880/baylor-president-ken-starr-fired
Makes you wonder how much dirt is in the Pepper Hamilton report.
When does the champion of women start his hard hitting expose on the Bev lawsuit a fit allegations of impropriety against the sip AD?
quote:quote:Obviously hasn't been updated in the past 3 years. He's not-so-slim now.
Ketch has a MySpace (the pictures are clearly outdated, because hes fat again).
https://myspace.com/geoffketchum/mixes/classic-my-photos-416352/photo/148079191
Enjoy the laugh.
Honestly, and I'm not even trying to be funny here, I'm pretty sure he's fatter than he was pre rubber band
quote:
KCEN news (Waco) reporting that Ken Starr is out.
http://www.kcentv.com/story/32051880/baylor-president-ken-starr-fired
Looks like Chimp got one right for once. However, he's got a long way to go before he's above the Mendoza line.
The question now is whether this will be seen a (Baylor) bold move, or be seen for what it is, a blatant attempt to protect Briles and football.
Starr definitely deserved this though regardless.
Starr definitely deserved this though regardless.
quote:
Edit: Never mind. You get the last word.
I could have been a bit less forceful in my responses so my apologies, wasn't meaning to pick a fight. The whole Baylor (and other similar schools) thing is just something that brings out some ire in me.
The real question is, where would Fatboy stand on Briles if Texas had hired him 2 years ago and then all these past transgressions had come to light once he was in Austin. My guess is he would have his face buried in a Chinese buffet.
quote:If he stood on Briles it would be the equivalent of the death penalty.
The real question is, where would Fatboy stand on Briles if Texas had hired him 2 years ago and then all these past transgressions had come to light once he was in Austin. My guess is he would have his face buried in a Chinese buffet.
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