If the Feds had done their duty in protecting the border in the first place, it would never have come to this.

Obviously, you don't know what I'm talking about... I lived in a town 30 miles from the U.S./Mexico border (on the U.S. side). Any time we wanted to drive from my town to the town 40 miles away, we had to go through one of these check points. Any time we wanted to go to Wal Mart, the doctor's office, the dentist, etc. (which our town didn't have), we had to go through a check point. My mom even worked in the town 40 miles away, so she had to go through it every time she traveled to work. So yes, ignoramus, it was/is a very 'innocuous situation'...

Here is what they look like:

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So yes, ignoramus, it was/is a very 'innocuous situation'...

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After you get through the border, there is another line of checkpoints as a safety net. Once again, you're trying to compare two things that aren't alike. Also, nobody uses the word ignoramus.

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It already does. I have to show ID if I write a check, enter a courthouse, board an airplane and sometimes when I use my credit card. No biggie.

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And will failure to produce one in these situations causes you to go to jail?

Thanks for playing.

[This message has been edited by Dwayne Hoover (edited 4/25/2010 7:07p).]

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It don't see why it's so difficult to grasp that if you, a legal citizen, were getting hassled for ID in completely innocuous situations you would more than likely feel differently about it.

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So an unforseen consequence of this law might be to provide a positive incentive to become a legal citizen?! WHO WOULDA THUNK IT!?

Oh please. How terrible, to be treated like a criminial for...being a criminal...

It's not called an "inconvenient" immigrant, it's an ILLEGAL immigrant.

Sign your papers, file your ****, document yourself, and PAY TAXES and you won't be treated like a criminal...

Hoover swings for the fences, and whiffs again.

If anybody tried to enter a courthouse or airplane without showing ID, I do believe they would be arrested.

Now that I think about it a bit more, I'm not sure why we're so upset that illegals are coming through the borders in bunches these days. I mean, we don't even have an American citizen running the country these days...

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So you're afraid Obama is going to turn the USA into a socialist dictatorship, but have no problem with a law that will literally bring "Papers, please" to America?

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This is BS argument. They were restricting the free movement of citizens and people in their country legally. That is all together different than stopping people from moving into and around your country who have no legal standing to be there. During that time period(and today) the democratic countries of Europe had guards at border crossings to ensure that only people who had legal right to enter could enter. Requiring someone to produce documentation is not in and of itself socialist. You have to produce a license and insurance when asked by the police in order to operate a vehicle. Without them you can be fined and jailed. Why should we be more lax in immigration privileges than we are in driving privileges?

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Funny, the one's who think that Obama's a fascist are the same ones in favor of making the US Mexifrei.

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Keeping out illegal aliens =/= getting rid of all people of Mexican decent.

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You'd have a problem with it if it happened to you on a regular basis.

I personally think that I wouldn't want to live in a society where a cop could demand me to produce an ID without any reason. I don't take my wallet with me when I run, and aren't going to start.

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I get carded at traffic violations and buying beer. Both are regular occurrences for me.

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I have no problem with holding illegal immigrants responsible, but tell me with a straight face how this doesn't lead to racial profiling? Do you think they're going to check in on Steve Nash to make sure his green card is current?

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You think they don’t check up on white people? Really? The guy who used to lead music at my church was British and applied for an extension since he had employment. He was denied and had to go back for almost a year before he could come back. He was as white as they come. The sad irony is that if you come in legally they keep better tabs on you(because they have a record of you) than if you come in illegally. The only way to catch someone who came in illegally is ask people to prove they are here legally.

Just because most of the people who come in illegally are central/south American it doesn’t mean that it is racist.

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It will likely be ruled unconstitutional actually by lower courts, not sure about making it to the supreme court. That would only be based off the fact that any attempt to define what an illegal immigrant "looks like" would undoubtedly be flawed. Being illegal is what someone is, not what someone looks like. It would, obviously, revolve around racial profiling as a violation of civil rights.

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Maybe. But it hasn’t stopped airport screeners yet.

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Driving from one country into another isn't exactly an innocuous situation. Driving from your home to your work in the same town is.

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There are checkpoints further in. Not just in the south either. I’ve gone through some in Montana as well. Had to produce ID and answer a bunch of questions(especially since my ID was from TX).

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It already does. I have to show ID if I write a check, enter a courthouse, board an airplane and sometimes when I use my credit card. No biggie.
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And will failure to produce one in these situations causes you to go to jail?

Thanks for playing.

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Yes. If you try to enter the courthouse or airline terminal without ID(and a ticket) you will be arrested. At the airport they will likely treat you like a terrorist. Failure to produce ID and proof of insurance(both “papers”) can result in fines, jail, and loss of license. If you are a US citizen and can prove it you won’t go to jail so you have nothing to be afraid of. If you aren’t then you should go to jail. You have broken federal law and are violating a sovereign countries soil. I promise you if I do that somewhere else they will throw me in jail too.

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If anybody tried to enter a courthouse or airplane without showing ID, I do believe they would be arrested.

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No, you would be denied entry.
If you then tried to enter, you'd be arrested for assault, not failure to have an ID.

Thanks for playing.

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Why should we be more lax in immigration privileges than we are in driving privileges?

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Driving is a privilege. Not having to produce ID, unless involved with a crime, is a right.

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Not having to produce ID, unless involved with a crime, is a right.

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I must have missed where it is written that this is a right... And tell me again how being in this country illegally is not a crime?!? The very name 'illegal alien' implies that immigration laws are being broken... Oh wait, that's right, we're supposed to be politically correct and call them 'undocumented immigrants' so that we don't offend them! Call a spade a spade jackass...

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I must have missed where it is written that this is a right

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

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The Constitution....maybe you should read it sometime.

Know Your Rights!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8vMZeL0BhQ&feature=related

Illegals have no rights here, they should be grateful just to have the opportunity to show officer Vasquez their papers before immigration sends back to that ****hole from whence they came

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The Constitution....maybe you should read it sometime.

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How about this: If you don't have an American ID and can't say "consitituion" in english, you don't get to join the party. Do not pass go, do not collect 200 pesos, etc.

I can't wait to vote for a Hispanic President.

Some of your heads are going to explode.

BTW, BMED, I might be going to Arizona in the future, how do I not "act like an illegal alien" as to not end up in jail if I leave my DL in the hotel?

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The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
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The Constitution....maybe you should read it sometime.

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I grew up in south Texas and have seen plenty of both sides of this issue. I could take you to the Commerce Street/Houston Street area just to the west of downtown San Antonio (among other places) and I'm about 99% certain that I could point out to you a large number of people(day workers) who there is a high likelihood are not in this country legally. Go ahead, call me a racist, but this is a simple truth. Some are undoubtedly here legally, but based upon what I know, most are likely not. The same way I could look at a white guy and tell you that he is most likely a redneck, I can look at these guys and tell you whether or not they fit the 'profile' of an illegal immigrant. Not saying they are, but that would be all the 'probably cause' you would need, in my opinion, to at the very least question them.

And to address your comment later down the page, I can't wait to vote for a Mexican president either, if he is about limited government, lower taxes, and enforcing our country's laws...

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can look at these guys and tell you whether or not they fit the 'profile' of an illegal immigrant. Not saying they are, but that would be all the 'probably cause' you would need, in my opinion, to at the very least question them.

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So you are saying that being Hispanic is probable cause for a search and seizure.

Got it.

No the fact that they're Hispanic day workers means they're likely illegal. I hope you can at least admit that much.

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No the fact that they're Hispanic day workers means they're likely illegal. I hope you can at least admit that much

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So it's illegal to be an Hispanic day worker.

Got it.

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No the fact that they're Hispanic day workers means they're likely illegal. I hope you can at least admit that much
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So it's illegal to be an Hispanic day worker.

Got it.

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Um, no, but thanks for playing!

It is not illegal to be a Hispanic day worker.

It IS illegal to be an illegal immigrant day worker of any race.


I would bet you big bucks that most of the 'day workers' you see on the streets, waiting for someone to pick them up, are not here legally (i.e., they haven't gone through the necessary channels to be in our country legally, since you can't get it through your thick skull). Don't believe me, go ask them and watch 'em scatter! So, with this in mind, why would there NOT be probable cause to, at the very least, question them?

The failure of people such as yourself to grasp the logic here is baffling...

He's just trolling now. All I asked was if he could agree that most Hispanic day laborers are illegal, and what does he do? Blatantly twists it around to something that wasn't said. Alinsky would be proud.

Simple answer to this entire debate: lets adopt the same immigration policies as Mexico. Which means the following:

- You are applying for your FM3 visa which requires the applicant to prove that they have 'sufficient funds to sustain themselves while in Mexico'.

- You apply to become a Naturalized Mexican citizen and at the end of the process must pass a test on basic knowledge of Mexico and need a basic grasp of the Spanish language to pass it.

- After become a Naturalized Citizen you receive your IFE card which is technically a voter registration document but also serves as a de facto National ID card in Mexico.

In summary we adopt Mexico's policies and require proof of income, basic knowledge of English, and everyone has a National ID card. Sounds simple to me.

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He's just trolling now. All I asked was if he could agree that most Hispanic day laborers are illegal, and what does he do? Blatantly twists it around to something that wasn't said.

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It's exactly what you said.

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I would bet you big bucks that most of the 'day workers' you see on the streets

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So, it follows that some are here legally. Unless you can tell me how you are going to tell the difference, then you are going to send legal citizens to jail for "failure to carry ID."

[This message has been edited by Dwayne Hoover (edited 4/26/2010 12:29p).]

From the website www.mexperience.com:

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It’s not common for foreigners who have become ‘naturalized Mexicans’ to flash their ‘IFE’ about, and if your appearance is typically one of a non-Mexican, you may have some interesting experiences as you begin to present the card for use in every-day situations; and discover that convincing locals that you really are a Mexican may require more than an elegant piece of printed plastic.

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Let's just adopt the same immigration policies as Mexico and all is well, right?

Ugh, so disheartening...liberals will argue against ANYTHING that is pro-America or designed to protect and/or better our country.

And I know that pursuant to liberal logic, only evil white males pushed for this legislation in Arizona because it was nothing more than another opportunity to racially persecute minorities, and had NOTHING to do with the fact that Arizona ranch owners (who I am certain are not all White) were being murdered by illegals and because mexican drug cartel violence was spilling over the border into the streets of America.

Notwithstanding, if Arizona is anything like Texas, most border towns are heavily populated with LEGAL hispanics. Did dumbass Hoover ever consider what they think about this law or did he only consider the feelings of ultra liberal, anti-white Boston hispanics who are only using this law as more fuel for their racist vitriol? If I lived in a bordertown (which I used to in the RGV) I would welcome anything that aided in protecting me against drug violence. Asking someone to show an id is probably more preferable to a legal hispanic citizen than getting carved the f up by the Mexican cartel.

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BTW, BMED, I might be going to Arizona in the future, how do I not "act like an illegal alien" as to not end up in jail if I leave my DL in the hotel?

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Not addressing the officer in spanish and keeping the number of people in your car under 10 would be a good start.

It's a moot point anyway seeing as white people are arrested everyday for driving without a license by dick police officers looking to make a point

As far as a hispanic president, that's fine, so long as he's legal and doesnt begin his presidential addresses with "Mis compatriotas estadounidenses"

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.liberals will argue against ANYTHING that is pro-America

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Requiring US citizens to produce papers proving their citizenship is the most anti-American idea I can think of.

Hell, why not make Hispanics wear armbands?

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Not addressing the officer in spanish and keeping the number of people in your car under 10 would be a good start.

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Nice Racism...but with you, it's par for the course.

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It's a moot point anyway seeing as white people are arrested everyday for driving without a license by dick police officers looking to make a point

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Driving is a privilege. Freedom from unreasonable search and seizure is a right.

You aren't real smart, are you?

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So you are saying that being Hispanic is probable cause for a search and seizure.

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No, being a hispanic who speaks no english, works cheap manuel labor, is providing for many children and has no identification of any kind is probable cause

Sorry, but the fact of matter is the majority of legal hispanic citizens speak a decent amount of english or are fluent, have something resembling a stable, legitimate profession, don't have 13 kids and carry some form of ID.

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and flies like a duck...

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BTW, BMED, I might be going to Arizona in the future, how do I not "act like an illegal alien" as to not end up in jail if I leave my DL in the hotel?

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Not addressing the officer in spanish and keeping the number of people in your car under 10 would be a good start.

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Nice Racism...but with you, it's par for the course.

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If you think that's racism you havent lived in the south very long.