Deluxe said:

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tysker said:

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They will set a small allocation (2-3%) in their 401k for bitcoin/crypto and forget about it.

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Who holds the private key? Would it the end beneficiary, the 401(k) manager, or the bank/broker custodianing the plan? How can certain bitcoins/cryptos be designated as taxable or not as would be necessary for them to be in a non-taxable account? You would need a smart contract for every piece of bitcoins/cryptos to designate as much If the bitcoins/cryptos are commingled then they really aren't owned by you, they are owned by the plan/management company. These considerations are exactly why you cant hold collectibles or physical gold (bullion coins notwithstanding) in an an IRA.

And a clear standardization of how those bitcoins/cryptos will be passed to beneficiaries and contingent beneficiaries or your 401(k) also needs to be contemplated. I'm sure the banks/brokers have a plan but my guess is they fully realize how difficult it will be to transition current systems to accommodate, supervise, and finally report the necessary information to the government. There's not much money to be made and lost of up front technology cost and regulatory hurdles.

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Good questions. I'm pretty they'd use multi-sig wallets (at least that's how Unchained sets up their Bitcoin IRAs). Not quite following the questions about taxable vs not taxable account.

Beneficiary planning and reporting would be taken care of the bank/broker. That definitely would not be a "smart contract" function. Fidelity, Citadel, etc are working on this as we speak.

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You dont own your keys, you dont own the crypto.
In unchained you assign your keys responsibility to the custodian who holds the assets in trust or escrow. The custodian also has a key and thus has a stake and partial ownership of your assets. They call it 'self-custodian' because they are setting up a IRA LLC which requires a fair amount of documentation legwork which you can do yourself or pay someone else (e.g. attorney). I guess that's why unchained charges $1k for setup and $250/yr after the second year. Thats pretty expensive even for the Alternative Investments space. Plus they cannot be held liable for any mistakes you make, unchained has no fiduciary duty to the IRA holder or beneficial owner of the crypto asset. They dont provide tax reporting to you or the government; you're on your own.

In some ways its nontaxable IRA because its not being reported to the government unless you report it. In non-taxable accounts, the asset doesn't can change but the tax status of those assets change, based on entering/exiting of the accounts. In ten years you've paid ~$3200 for unchained basically to hold your cash. Other Alt Investment products have sponsors them be $250 per year or more but they also provide K-1s, 5498s, or other tax docs which you can rely on to defer or pay taxes as required by the IRS. The offsetting tax saving (after the age of 59 1/2 without penalty) better be worth it and you're stuck if you get audited (however unlikely)

So as is often the question: what is the value add here and is this a good deal for the average investor?

My response wasn't meant to be argumentative

Neither am I really. Just pointing the misunderstandings and misapplication of BTC and cryptos. They aren't assets that functionally cant be held in non-taxable accounts like IRAs, 401ks, etc given the current frameworks and legal structures. Plus the financial benefits are still unknown. BTC and cryptos are not securities or investments; they exist and are built for a different purpose.

LMCane said:

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successfully transferred $200 BTC to my Ledger Nano S.

how many of you keep the 24 word passwords in your home safe?

how many keep it in a bank box?

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I have it in my office. I need to store it somewhere safer.

According to congressional bills being discussed, bitcoin will be regulated as a commodity not as an asset/security like the other cryptos.

Just a heads up.

LMCane said:

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successfully transferred $200 BTC to my Ledger Nano S.

how many of you keep the 24 word passwords in your home safe?

how many keep it in a bank box?

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Mine is punched into one of these titanium plates, and I put it in a good hiding spot.

https://cryptotag.io/

I destroyed all paper versions and made multiple copies of my hardware keys as backups.

Under the power of the US Treasury correct?
The CFTC does not have authority to regulate cash commodities, only their derivatives

I wouldn't let it leave my house

Adverse Event said:

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According to congressional bills being discussed, bitcoin will be regulated as a commodity not as an asset/security like the other cryptos.

Just a heads up.

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Which means they plan to manipulate it even more than most

TxAG#2011 said:

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If you have any coin staked on a third-party lending service I'd suggest taking custody of that immediately.

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This

TxAG#2011 said:

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If you have any coin staked on a third-party lending service I'd suggest taking custody of that immediately.

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IMO, this is a bold statement. May I ask why you are suggesting it?
Can you earn passive income if your coin is not staked?

tysker said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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If you have any coin staked on a third-party lending service I'd suggest taking custody of that immediately.

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IMO, this is a bold statement. May I ask why you are suggesting it?
Can you earn passive income if your coin is not staked?

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b/c NYKNYC.

Deluxe said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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If you have any coin staked on a third-party lending service I'd suggest taking custody of that immediately.

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This

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are you including Coinbase on that?

and why now versus yesterday?

is there any way to get back the $2000 in staked ETH I put on Coinbase?

Don't Worry, USDD won't be another Terra collapse

okay, I will just trust whatever the powers that be tell me...

Deluxe said:

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I think he's referring to the rumored liquidity issues at BlockFi, Voyager and potentially others

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BlockFi advertises on all the Youtube "investment" channels.

if they go down there goes a ton of money for Meet Kevin, Graham Stephan, Jeremy and Andre Jikh

Adverse Event said:

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tysker said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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If you have any coin staked on a third-party lending service I'd suggest taking custody of that immediately.

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IMO, this is a bold statement. May I ask why you are suggesting it?
Can you earn passive income if your coin is not staked?

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b/c NYKNYC.

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Agreed but this sort of post has shades of Lehman and Bear. Our firm cleared through Bear when they went out of business. We had many customers not wanting to do business though us just because we cleared through Bear

tysker said:

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Adverse Event said:

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tysker said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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If you have any coin staked on a third-party lending service I'd suggest taking custody of that immediately.

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IMO, this is a bold statement. May I ask why you are suggesting it?
Can you earn passive income if your coin is not staked?

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b/c NYKNYC.

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Agreed but this sort of post has shades of Lehman and Bear. Our firm cleared through Bear when they went out of business. We had many customers not wanting to do business though us just because we cleared through Bear

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It definitely has shades of Lehman and Bear. Could get very ugly.

Deluxe said:

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tysker said:

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Adverse Event said:

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tysker said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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If you have any coin staked on a third-party lending service I'd suggest taking custody of that immediately.

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IMO, this is a bold statement. May I ask why you are suggesting it?
Can you earn passive income if your coin is not staked?

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b/c NYKNYC.

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Agreed but this sort of post has shades of Lehman and Bear. Our firm cleared through Bear when they went out of business. We had many customers not wanting to do business though us just because we cleared through Bear

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It definitely has shades of Lehman and Bear. Could get very ugly.

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Sam Bankman-Fried bails out BlockFi

how long can he keep this up for?

Bailing out the Leveraged Crypto companies

https://u.today/cardano-and-linux-creator-linus-torvalds-meet-in-fireside-chat

tysker said:

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TxAG#2011 said:

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If you have any coin staked on a third-party lending service I'd suggest taking custody of that immediately.

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IMO, this is a bold statement. May I ask why you are suggesting it?
Can you earn passive income if your coin is not staked?

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BTW?

Folks are doing the math and realizing that 105% of 0 is 0.

Lots of self custody maximalists being minted lately.

— Jameson Lopp (@lopp) June 24, 2022

Quote:

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Folks are doing the math and realizing that 105% of 0 is 0.

Lots of self custody maximalists being minted lately.
-Jameson Lopp

(For the anti-twitterers)

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People cant even self custody their car keys. Thats why Tile and AirTags exist. I'm not yet sure thats a long term solution for the sub-100 IQ public. At least not yet

That's fine, the above 100IQ 50% of the rest if the global population will have full access to global financial inclusion.

That's a growth of a few Billion or some odd people at least.

Is your intent that the haves and haves not maintain exactly similar metrics under the current financial system?

I think bitcoin brings far more HAVES into the equation and the HAVE NOTS will be included kicking and screaming along the way ineffectively.

Anyone else getting their Azz handed to them by the Voyager token (VGX) coin?

Can it survive

tysker said:

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People cant even self custody their car keys. Thats why Tile and AirTags exist. I'm not yet sure thats a long term solution for the sub-100 IQ public. At least not yet

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Hell, I love my wife but she can't self custody her glasses, credit cards, or cell phone so... he ain't wrong

Mudcat said:

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Anyone else getting their Azz handed to them by the Voyager token (VGX) coin?

Can it survive

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Nah I swapped all my.VGX for CEL some months back and am just waiting for.the Celsius withdrawal feature to be fixed by their dev team. I have an open support ticket and they said they're working on it.

Their customer service is great. I'm sure you'll be squared away in no time.

NEW - Crypto broker Voyager Digital has issued a notice of default to crypto hedge fund Three Arrows Capital after failing to make the required payments on its loans of 15,250 #Bitcoin and $350 million in USDC.

— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) June 27, 2022

will25u said:

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NEW - Crypto broker Voyager Digital has issued a notice of default to crypto hedge fund Three Arrows Capital after failing to make the required payments on its loans of 15,250 #Bitcoin and $350 million in USDC.

— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) June 27, 2022

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and yet BTC is the strongest now than it has been in weeks..