Crypto-trading thread

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In reply to LMCane • 3:21p, 6/16/22
AG
That's a question best answered by the interwebs my guy.


This is such a fundamental concept of crypto that I think it akin to me posting a question about how the electricity lights up my light bulbs when I turn on a light switch.

A very complicated answer, published in depth many times over at no cost to John Q. Public .
Thanks & Gig 'Em
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bmks270
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In reply to Definitely Not A Cop • 8:46p, 6/16/22
AG
Definitely Not A Cop said:
LMCane said:
so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?


For a real in depth answer, I would highly recommend reading The Bitcoin standard and Mastering Bitcoin. The Bitcoin standard gives you a mile high view on how POW functions, and why Bitcoin has value. Mastering Bitcoin will give you answers to more technical questions like how the blockchain actually works.


BTC has value only based on the whims of human group think. It can never be stable. It solves no human need. It's largest demand generator is fear. FOMO.
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MR Gadsden
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In reply to bmks270 • 9:09p, 6/16/22
bmks270 said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
LMCane said:
so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?


For a real in depth answer, I would highly recommend reading The Bitcoin standard and Mastering Bitcoin. The Bitcoin standard gives you a mile high view on how POW functions, and why Bitcoin has value. Mastering Bitcoin will give you answers to more technical questions like how the blockchain actually works.


BTC has value only based on the whims of human group think. It can never be stable. It solves no human need. It's largest demand generator is fear. FOMO.


Are you a troll or an idiot?
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JAG03
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In reply to MR Gadsden • 9:28p, 6/16/22
AG
MR Gadsden said:
bmks270 said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
LMCane said:
so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?


For a real in depth answer, I would highly recommend reading The Bitcoin standard and Mastering Bitcoin. The Bitcoin standard gives you a mile high view on how POW functions, and why Bitcoin has value. Mastering Bitcoin will give you answers to more technical questions like how the blockchain actually works.


BTC has value only based on the whims of human group think. It can never be stable. It solves no human need. It's largest demand generator is fear. FOMO.


Are you a troll or an idiot?


He might be wrong one day but that day hasn't happened yet.
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MRB10
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9:29p, 6/16/22
AG
They came on the crypto thread to talk ***** What do you think?
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”

“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
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MR Gadsden
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In reply to JAG03 • 9:31p, 6/16/22
JAG03 said:
MR Gadsden said:
bmks270 said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
LMCane said:
so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?


For a real in depth answer, I would highly recommend reading The Bitcoin standard and Mastering Bitcoin. The Bitcoin standard gives you a mile high view on how POW functions, and why Bitcoin has value. Mastering Bitcoin will give you answers to more technical questions like how the blockchain actually works.


BTC has value only based on the whims of human group think. It can never be stable. It solves no human need. It's largest demand generator is fear. FOMO.


Are you a troll or an idiot?


He might be wrong one day but that day hasn't happened yet.


To say it solves no human need tells me he's either 100% happy with the way the current financial system run or he's ingenuine.
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bmks270
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In reply to MR Gadsden • 9:38p, 6/16/22
AG
MR Gadsden said:
bmks270 said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
LMCane said:
so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?


For a real in depth answer, I would highly recommend reading The Bitcoin standard and Mastering Bitcoin. The Bitcoin standard gives you a mile high view on how POW functions, and why Bitcoin has value. Mastering Bitcoin will give you answers to more technical questions like how the blockchain actually works.


BTC has value only based on the whims of human group think. It can never be stable. It solves no human need. It's largest demand generator is fear. FOMO.


Are you a troll or an idiot?


Just an independent thinker.

What drives Bitcoin demand?

For the past 10 years the "digital gold" was promoted as being an asset that would retain value when government currencies collapse from inflation.

The thesis has been tested and proven false. USD hits high inflation and immediately Bitcoin value craters.
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MR Gadsden
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In reply to bmks270 • 9:41p, 6/16/22
bmks270 said:
MR Gadsden said:
bmks270 said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
LMCane said:
so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?


For a real in depth answer, I would highly recommend reading The Bitcoin standard and Mastering Bitcoin. The Bitcoin standard gives you a mile high view on how POW functions, and why Bitcoin has value. Mastering Bitcoin will give you answers to more technical questions like how the blockchain actually works.


BTC has value only based on the whims of human group think. It can never be stable. It solves no human need. It's largest demand generator is fear. FOMO.


Are you a troll or an idiot?


Just an independent thinker.

What drives Bitcoin demand?

For the past 10 years the "digital gold" was promoted as being an asset that would retain value when government currencies collapse from inflation.

The thesis has been tested and proven false. USD hits high inflation and immediately Bitcoin value craters.


You've never read the white paper have you?

Do you work in traditional finance?

Are you happy with the current system?

Why are you so negative against a technology that you go out of your way to crap on it every opportunity you get?

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bmks270
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In reply to MR Gadsden • 9:49p, 6/16/22
AG
MR Gadsden said:
bmks270 said:
MR Gadsden said:
bmks270 said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
LMCane said:
so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?


For a real in depth answer, I would highly recommend reading The Bitcoin standard and Mastering Bitcoin. The Bitcoin standard gives you a mile high view on how POW functions, and why Bitcoin has value. Mastering Bitcoin will give you answers to more technical questions like how the blockchain actually works.


BTC has value only based on the whims of human group think. It can never be stable. It solves no human need. It's largest demand generator is fear. FOMO.


Are you a troll or an idiot?


Just an independent thinker.

What drives Bitcoin demand?

For the past 10 years the "digital gold" was promoted as being an asset that would retain value when government currencies collapse from inflation.

The thesis has been tested and proven false. USD hits high inflation and immediately Bitcoin value craters.


You've never read the white paper have you?

Do you work in traditional finance?

Are you happy with the current system?

Why are you so negative against a technology that you go out of your way to crap on it every opportunity you get?



I was more optimistic about Bitcoin two years ago, but my beliefs on it have evolved. I just believe it's demand is driven predominantly by peer pressure which can flip flop and is subject to passing fads. The demand is not based on intrinsic human needs or instinctual desires aside from the social peer pressure.

I don't think the average human is intelligent or responsible enough to successfully manage their own wallet and not either lose their keys, or get scammed. This is one area where humans prefer centralization so they can have their password reset, transactions reversed, and some protection from fraud and scammers.

And as stated before, the Bitcoin thesis, that it's scarcity will cause it to increase in relative value to inflated government currencies, is being proven false. It appears most holders were FOMO and have jumped shipped. The market behavior is saying that most participants have weak faith in their BTC and believe USD is more valuable.
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MR Gadsden
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In reply to bmks270 • 9:58p, 6/16/22
Your independent thought and reply doesn't look outside your little box. Bitcoin provides a means for the first time in history of the world for one individual to pay another individual across borders, across currencies without an intermediary.

We have never had that in the history of the world. We are seeing this time and time again play out . Sending money to refugees using Bitcoin and the lightning Network, allowing them to pull out funds via Bitcoin ATMs. Sending money to war torn areas. So much so that I know that the red cross is working on a crypto custody solution. But you must be smarter than them.

Entire countries now can use Bitcoin to send money back to family members in their country and save hundreds of millions of dollars in remittance fees that they paid in the past. El Salvador all by itself can save or for $400 million a year in remittance fees. Tell me again how this doesn't solve a problem. Tell me again from your United States, dollar economy, Free thinking point of view that it's just driven by FOMO.

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MR Gadsden
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10:01p, 6/16/22
"I don't think the average human is intelligent or responsible enough to successfully manage their own wallet and not either lose their keys, or get scammed. This is one area where humans prefer centralization so they can have their password reset, transactions reversed, and some protection from fraud and scammer"

Sorry you have no faith in your fellow man. I know there are those much smarter than both of us working on this problem right now
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p-townag
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10:10p, 6/16/22
AG
" I don't think the average human is intelligent or responsible enough to successfully manage their own wallet and not either lose their keys, or get scammed. This is one area where humans prefer centralization so they can have their password reset, transactions reversed, and some protection from fraud and scammers. "

I'm a big time Bitcoin maximalist, but this is my biggest concern. Much moreso than regulation.
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bmks270
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In reply to MR Gadsden • 10:17p, 6/16/22
AG
MR Gadsden said:
Your independent thought and reply doesn't look outside your little box. Bitcoin provides a means for the first time in history of the world for one individual to pay another individual across borders, across currencies without an intermediary.

We have never had that in the history of the world. We are seeing this time and time again play out . Sending money to refugees using Bitcoin and the lightning Network, allowing them to pull out funds via Bitcoin ATMs. Sending money to war torn areas. So much so that I know that the red cross is working on a crypto custody solution. But you must be smarter than them.

Entire countries now can use Bitcoin to send money back to family members in their country and save hundreds of millions of dollars in remittance fees that they paid in the past. El Salvador all by itself can save or for $400 million a year in remittance fees. Tell me again how this doesn't solve a problem. Tell me again from your United States, dollar economy, Free thinking point of view that it's just driven by FOMO.



The majority of Bitcoin buyers, aren't buying it because they need to make international transactions. The majority of its demand propping up its price isn't based on its features. It's based on fear. 1). Fear of missing out on profits. 2). Fear of government currency collapse.
It's ability to retain value during financial turmoil, fear driver number 2, is currently being tested, and at the moment BTC is failing that test.

I do understand the convenience and security of blockchain, but I don't believe blockchain's advantages are what is driving the demand. I think the demand right now is primarily fear, and peer pressure social fad. I don't think it's price can be stable as long as the demand is fear driven. Maybe in the future the FOMO Crowd and prepper crowd are driven away, and all that remains is people using it for its utility, then it can be properly priced based on that utility. At the moment, blockchain currencies including BTC are not priced based on their utility.
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Chrundle the Great
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In reply to p-townag • 10:24p, 6/16/22
AG
p-townag said:
" I don't think the average human is intelligent or responsible enough to successfully manage their own wallet and not either lose their keys, or get scammed. This is one area where humans prefer centralization so they can have their password reset, transactions reversed, and some protection from fraud and scammers. "

I'm a big time Bitcoin maximalist, but this is my biggest concern. Much moreso than regulation.

I don't worry about it much. Once BTC adoption hits a certain point BTC "banks" will appear that will do the hand holding for people. Coinbase was probably already planning something before everything tanked.

You could make the same argument about cash as far as transaction reversal, fraud/scam etc. The only reason we are familiar with protections for those is because banks/credit card companies created them it's not something inherent in the USD.
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Chrundle the Great
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In reply to bmks270 • 10:26p, 6/16/22
AG
You probably have a point about the current drivers of btc price, but put me in the camp that believes it's still undervalued for its utility.
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MR Gadsden
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In reply to bmks270 • 10:28p, 6/16/22
No, the majority of Bitcoin holders do not trade in the manner that you are describing. Bitcoin trading is a whole other beast and it seems to be what you have issues with, and maybe even rightfully so. Did you know you can 100x leverage on buybit? I wonder what's driving these huge price swings? It's not the majority of people that understand Bitcoin and are holding it.

So please stop ****ting on BTC everytime the price drops. It is much much more than a spot price. Stop saying Bitcoin solves no issues.
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MR Gadsden
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In reply to p-townag • 10:34p, 6/16/22
p-townag said:
" I don't think the average human is intelligent or responsible enough to successfully manage their own wallet and not either lose their keys, or get scammed. This is one area where humans prefer centralization so they can have their password reset, transactions reversed, and some protection from fraud and scammers. "

I'm a big time Bitcoin maximalist, but this is my biggest concern. Much moreso than regulation.


Check out Vaultavo.com

Solutions like this will fix the lazy/stupid issues.
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BTHOtrolls
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In reply to bmks270 • 10:38p, 6/16/22
AG
bmks270 said:
MR Gadsden said:
bmks270 said:
Definitely Not A Cop said:
LMCane said:
so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?


For a real in depth answer, I would highly recommend reading The Bitcoin standard and Mastering Bitcoin. The Bitcoin standard gives you a mile high view on how POW functions, and why Bitcoin has value. Mastering Bitcoin will give you answers to more technical questions like how the blockchain actually works.


BTC has value only based on the whims of human group think. It can never be stable. It solves no human need. It's largest demand generator is fear. FOMO.


Are you a troll or an idiot?


Just an independent thinker.

What drives Bitcoin demand?

For the past 10 years the "digital gold" was promoted as being an asset that would retain value when government currencies collapse from inflation.

The thesis has been tested and proven false. USD hits high inflation and immediately Bitcoin value craters.


Right now, the price of BTC is driven by greed and leverage which is available to market participants in the developed world. However, I think it'll eventually be driven by those seeking a store of value, but the catalyst will be the population and GDP growth of developing nations.

There are two types of metrics that could be used to quantify "demand" for Bitcoin. The obvious metric is how much capital (USD / EUR / YEN / etc.) that market participants are willing to allocate towards acquiring Bitcoin. A less obvious metric, but arguably more important for the long term price is total people who are invested in BTC.

The country with the highest percentage of BTC adoption per capita in the world is Nigeria. The published estimates are that over a third of all Nigerians own BTC as of today. Nigeria will be the most populated country on earth within our lifetime given their population growth trends.

The number of people owning BTC continues to grow, but it's driven by developing countries with less purchasing power. Hence, the motivation for adoption of BTC is hard to distinguish since the current price is driven by a disproportionately small number of market participants in the developed world.

I expect in the coming years as hyper inflation becomes (more) embedded in developing countries, the adoption of BTC will increase. Eventually, the price of BTC may be driven be emerging markets as the citizens who lack faith in their countries currencies will be BTC primary users.

The thesis of BTC as a hedge against inflation, if you're benchmarking for the USD across these past 12 months looks problematic. However, if you live in a country like Nigeria with chronic inflation, I would still recommend holding BTC rather than Naira over these next 10 years.

The volatility of BTC will decrease as there are more market participants and the "float" of BTC's traded supply is allocated towards people seeking store of value. The market participants seeking "store of value" in large scale will come from countries like Nigeria who are trapped in a monetary system with high inflation.

I wouldn't write off BTC as a store of value yet.
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MRB10
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In reply to bmks270 • 10:42p, 6/16/22
AG
bmks270 said:
MR Gadsden said:
Your independent thought and reply doesn't look outside your little box. Bitcoin provides a means for the first time in history of the world for one individual to pay another individual across borders, across currencies without an intermediary.

We have never had that in the history of the world. We are seeing this time and time again play out . Sending money to refugees using Bitcoin and the lightning Network, allowing them to pull out funds via Bitcoin ATMs. Sending money to war torn areas. So much so that I know that the red cross is working on a crypto custody solution. But you must be smarter than them.

Entire countries now can use Bitcoin to send money back to family members in their country and save hundreds of millions of dollars in remittance fees that they paid in the past. El Salvador all by itself can save or for $400 million a year in remittance fees. Tell me again how this doesn't solve a problem. Tell me again from your United States, dollar economy, Free thinking point of view that it's just driven by FOMO.



The majority of Bitcoin buyers, aren't buying it because they need to make international transactions. The majority of its demand propping up its price isn't based on its features. It's based on fear. 1). Fear of missing out on profits. 2). Fear of government currency collapse.
It's ability to retain value during financial turmoil, fear driver number 2, is currently being tested, and at the moment BTC is failing that test.

I do understand the convenience and security of blockchain, but I don't believe blockchain's advantages are what is driving the demand. I think the demand right now is primarily fear, and peer pressure social fad. I don't think it's price can be stable as long as the demand is fear driven. Maybe in the future the FOMO Crowd and prepper crowd are driven away, and all that remains is people using it for its utility, then it can be properly priced based on that utility. At the moment, blockchain currencies including BTC are not priced based on their utility.


How does FOMO or fear of a collapse in the current currency system negate the use case of Bitcoin? You might not think it's worth $20k a coin in the current environment, compared to current use cases, but what is BTC worth if number two comes to pass?

I buy it precisely because it's inherently deflationary, undeniably decentralized, has withstood multiple attacks on the protocols/mining/etc, and has a decent network effect going for it. I don't understand how anything you've said refutes those things. You've essentially just said you don't like the price.
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”

“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
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exp
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In reply to bmks270 • 11:11p, 6/16/22
AG
I replied to you here

https://texags.com/forums/57/topics/3296805

Didn't want to derail the crypto trading talk with a deep dive on the nature of money
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bmks270
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In reply to MRB10 • 11:25p, 6/16/22
AG
NTXAg10 said:
bmks270 said:
MR Gadsden said:
Your independent thought and reply doesn't look outside your little box. Bitcoin provides a means for the first time in history of the world for one individual to pay another individual across borders, across currencies without an intermediary.

We have never had that in the history of the world. We are seeing this time and time again play out . Sending money to refugees using Bitcoin and the lightning Network, allowing them to pull out funds via Bitcoin ATMs. Sending money to war torn areas. So much so that I know that the red cross is working on a crypto custody solution. But you must be smarter than them.

Entire countries now can use Bitcoin to send money back to family members in their country and save hundreds of millions of dollars in remittance fees that they paid in the past. El Salvador all by itself can save or for $400 million a year in remittance fees. Tell me again how this doesn't solve a problem. Tell me again from your United States, dollar economy, Free thinking point of view that it's just driven by FOMO.



The majority of Bitcoin buyers, aren't buying it because they need to make international transactions. The majority of its demand propping up its price isn't based on its features. It's based on fear. 1). Fear of missing out on profits. 2). Fear of government currency collapse.
It's ability to retain value during financial turmoil, fear driver number 2, is currently being tested, and at the moment BTC is failing that test.

I do understand the convenience and security of blockchain, but I don't believe blockchain's advantages are what is driving the demand. I think the demand right now is primarily fear, and peer pressure social fad. I don't think it's price can be stable as long as the demand is fear driven. Maybe in the future the FOMO Crowd and prepper crowd are driven away, and all that remains is people using it for its utility, then it can be properly priced based on that utility. At the moment, blockchain currencies including BTC are not priced based on their utility.


How does FOMO or fear of a collapse in the current currency system negate the use case of Bitcoin? You might not think it's worth $20k a coin in the current environment, compared to current use cases, but what is BTC worth if number two comes to pass?

I buy it precisely because it's inherently deflationary, undeniably decentralized, has withstood multiple attacks on the protocols/mining/etc, and has a decent network effect going for it. I don't understand how anything you've said refutes those things. You've essentially just said you don't like the price.


It's utility isn't negated, I'm just saying the price is not driven by its utility and therefore isn't stable. I think it's a bubble. I think it may eventually be stable when the traders and FOMO investors are shaken out.
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XpressAg09
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In reply to MR Gadsden • 11:28p, 6/16/22
AG
Or naive, or blind.
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XpressAg09
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In reply to bmks270 • 11:30p, 6/16/22
AG
It's a longer game than that.
One year ago gas was half off and food was cheaper.
JustWait.gif
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XpressAg09
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In reply to MR Gadsden • 11:32p, 6/16/22
AG
MR Gadsden said:


Sorry you have no faith in your fellow man. I know there are those much smarter than both of us working on this problem right now


You've got a heckuva lotta faith in bureaucrats.
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bmks270
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In reply to XpressAg09 • 11:56p, 6/16/22
AG
XpressAg09 said:
It's a longer game than that.
One year ago gas was half off and food was cheaper.
JustWait.gif


BTC is one of the few things that hasn't gotten more expensive.

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AggieMainland
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In reply to p-townag • 3:45a, 6/17/22
p-townag said:
" I don't think the average human is intelligent or responsible enough to successfully manage their own wallet and not either lose their keys, or get scammed. This is one area where humans prefer centralization so they can have their password reset, transactions reversed, and some protection from fraud and scammers. "

I'm a big time Bitcoin maximalist, but this is my biggest concern. Much moreso than regulation.
10 years from now, the average person wont be worrying about wallets or keys or getting scammed. They will set a small allocation (2-3%) in their 401k for bitcoin/crypto and forget about it. You will still have a small % of the population doing their own thing but once we get to that point, even i won't want to be messing with wallets or keys.
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MRB10
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In reply to bmks270 • 7:10a, 6/17/22
AG
I agree that short term prices are being influenced by factors other than its utility. However, that only matters of you are looking at it as a shorter term investment vehicle. I would guess that most folks who have gone down the rabbit hole don't intend to use it anytime soon. They buy it for if/when SHTF and they need something no one can manipulate or take.

Neither of us can say what will be influencing the price in 3, 5, or 10 years. All we can say for certain is there is a finite amount and the odds that demand goes down is unlikely due to how early we are in countries making it legal tender.
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”

“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
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XpressAg09
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In reply to MRB10 • 8:06a, 6/17/22
AG
NTXAg10 said:
They buy it for if/when SHTF and they need something no one can manipulate or take.

Justin Trudeau freezing the Ottawa Truckers accounts was a big "a ha" moment for me. I already had some invested in BTC, but that action proved to me that you're one elected official away from potentially not having access to your own money…
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Definitely Not A Cop
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In reply to AggieMainland • 8:15a, 6/17/22
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AggieMainland said:
p-townag said:
" I don't think the average human is intelligent or responsible enough to successfully manage their own wallet and not either lose their keys, or get scammed. This is one area where humans prefer centralization so they can have their password reset, transactions reversed, and some protection from fraud and scammers. "

I'm a big time Bitcoin maximalist, but this is my biggest concern. Much moreso than regulation.
10 years from now, the average person wont be worrying about wallets or keys or getting scammed. They will set a small allocation (2-3%) in their 401k for bitcoin/crypto and forget about it. You will still have a small % of the population doing their own thing but once we get to that point, even i won't want to be messing with wallets or keys.


I'm of the opinion that we are still in the "abacus" phase of bitcoin. Eventually we will get to the "calculator" phase, where the technology becomes self explanatory enough that you don't have to do hours of research to figure out how to set up a wallet and keys.

Most adults forget how to do long division by hand before they graduate HS. Doesn't matter though with the technology we have, it's made it extraneous. That's the goal with bitcoin, figuring out how to increase ease of use without sacrificing security.
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bmks270
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In reply to MRB10 • 8:18a, 6/17/22
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NTXAg10 said:
I agree that short term prices are being influenced by factors other than its utility. However, that only matters of you are looking at it as a shorter term investment vehicle. I would guess that most folks who have gone down the rabbit hole don't intend to use it anytime soon. They buy it for if/when SHTF and they need something no one can manipulate or take.

Neither of us can say what will be influencing the price in 3, 5, or 10 years. All we can say for certain is there is a finite amount and the odds that demand goes down is unlikely due to how early we are in countries making it legal tender.


**** is hitting the fan! BTC is being tested in this regard and failing!
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MRB10
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In reply to bmks270 • 10:30a, 6/17/22
AG
By SHTF I'm talking about a global collapse, or meaningful overhaul, of the fiat reserve currency system. Ex. CBDC and nationalization of the banking system or the USD losing its status.

Yes, the economy is currently unstable, inflation is out of control, and we seem to have an administration actively trying to make it worse. However, people can still trade dollars for things and most still don't see a need for something else. If/when that sentiment changes, I believe BTC will be a lot more valuable than it is today.

Due to that belief, I am just fine with the price volatility and will keep trading a portion of my depreciating dollars for BTC just in case that future comes to pass.
“There is no red.
There is no blue.
There is the state.
And there is you.”

“As government expands, Liberty contracts” - R. Reagan
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exp
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10:56a, 6/17/22
AG
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tysker
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In reply to AggieMainland • 1:19p, 6/17/22
AG
Quote:
They will set a small allocation (2-3%) in their 401k for bitcoin/crypto and forget about it.
Who holds the private key? Would it the end beneficiary, the 401(k) manager, or the bank/broker custodianing the plan? How can certain bitcoins/cryptos be designated as taxable or not as would be necessary for them to be in a non-taxable account? You would need a smart contract for every piece of bitcoins/cryptos to designate as much If the bitcoins/cryptos are commingled then they really aren't owned by you, they are owned by the plan/management company. These considerations are exactly why you cant hold collectibles or physical gold (bullion coins notwithstanding) in an an IRA.

And a clear standardization of how those bitcoins/cryptos will be passed to beneficiaries and contingent beneficiaries or your 401(k) also needs to be contemplated. I'm sure the banks/brokers have a plan but my guess is they fully realize how difficult it will be to transition current systems to accommodate, supervise, and finally report the necessary information to the government. There's not much money to be made and lost of up front technology cost and regulatory hurdles.
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Deluxe
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In reply to tysker • 2:21p, 6/17/22
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tysker said:
Quote:
They will set a small allocation (2-3%) in their 401k for bitcoin/crypto and forget about it.
Who holds the private key? Would it the end beneficiary, the 401(k) manager, or the bank/broker custodianing the plan? How can certain bitcoins/cryptos be designated as taxable or not as would be necessary for them to be in a non-taxable account? You would need a smart contract for every piece of bitcoins/cryptos to designate as much If the bitcoins/cryptos are commingled then they really aren't owned by you, they are owned by the plan/management company. These considerations are exactly why you cant hold collectibles or physical gold (bullion coins notwithstanding) in an an IRA.

And a clear standardization of how those bitcoins/cryptos will be passed to beneficiaries and contingent beneficiaries or your 401(k) also needs to be contemplated. I'm sure the banks/brokers have a plan but my guess is they fully realize how difficult it will be to transition current systems to accommodate, supervise, and finally report the necessary information to the government. There's not much money to be made and lost of up front technology cost and regulatory hurdles.
Good questions. I'm pretty they'd use multi-sig wallets (at least that's how Unchained sets up their Bitcoin IRAs). Not quite following the questions about taxable vs not taxable account.

Beneficiary planning and reporting would be taken care of the bank/broker. That definitely would not be a "smart contract" function. Fidelity, Citadel, etc are working on this as we speak.
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LMCane
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2:40p, 6/17/22
successfully transferred $200 BTC to my Ledger Nano S.

how many of you keep the 24 word passwords in your home safe?

how many keep it in a bank box?
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