Key Celsius liquidation level at $17.2k...

Make that $16.8k. Alameda?

Saylor may be margin called on Bitcoin

that would be pretty crazy if BTC gets to 21K and he is forced to sell and add more assets for a 2 billion dollar debt

Deluxe said:

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Make that $16.8k. Alameda?

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what does this mean

Deluxe said:

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Key Celsius liquidation level at $17.2k...

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If true will participants press down to cause liquidations and pick up assets cheap on the other side? There isn't much protection from price manipulation by hedge funds or governments

who is buying BTC now at 21,800?

and who is waiting and thinking BTC will continue to trend down?

tysker said:

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Deluxe said:

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Key Celsius liquidation level at $17.2k...

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If true will participants press down to cause liquidations and pick up assets cheap on the other side? There isn't much protection from price manipulation by hedge funds or governments

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it's seems that Celsius is mostly a classic Ponzi scheme-

what assets will there be able to pick up after it collapses?

LMCane said:

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Deluxe said:

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Make that $16.8k. Alameda?

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what does this mean

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Alameda is Sam Bankman-Fried's crypto trading firm. Given the insanely high trading volumes on FTX last night, people were speculating that they were trying to push the price down the $16.8k and liquidate Celsius. Who knows if that was actually the case.

The lower the price goes, the riskier it is to setup big aggressive levered shorts because you can be the one liquidated. Similar to how the big aggressive levered longs got slammed at the top. Can cause a boomerang effect. Not saying that's exactly where we're at right now, but we might be getting close. Some traders I follow have been speculating low $20s for a Bitcoin reversal.

Part of me thinks there might be other shenanigans going on though. Like why was Celsius specifically being targeted? Was it purely just a market-driven opportunity that agnostic minded traders were trying to capitalize on? Or are there bigger power players trying to make an example out of it (similar to Terra)?

tysker said:

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Deluxe said:

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Key Celsius liquidation level at $17.2k...

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If true will participants press down to cause liquidations and pick up assets cheap on the other side? There isn't much protection from price manipulation by hedge funds or governments

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Yep. It also unlocks a large supply of coins that shorts need to buy to close out their high leverage positions.

Hopefully the exchange regulation aspect changes soon and I think it will. None of this is healthy and it prevents institutional capital from buying Bitcoin.

Deluxe said:

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tysker said:

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Deluxe said:

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Key Celsius liquidation level at $17.2k...

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If true will participants press down to cause liquidations and pick up assets cheap on the other side? There isn't much protection from price manipulation by hedge funds or governments

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Yep. It also unlocks a large supply of coins that shorts need to buy to close out their high leverage positions.

Hopefully the exchange regulation aspect changes soon and I think it will. None of this is healthy and it prevents institutional capital from buying Bitcoin.

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The strategy of shorting a commodity/security all the way down and picking up the pieces for pennies on the dollar is tried and true. And if you think naked short selling is problem with stocks, I imagine there are some players out there for engaging in the practice or allowing it happen, knowingly or unknowingly.

I am setting up my Ledger Nano S now.

1. a youtuber is stating the ledger only holds the Private Key and not the actual bitcoin which is on the blockchain

2. but then what happens when you move the crypto onto the ledger?

3. isn't the entire point of doing this to not only protect the key, but in case Coinbase or Bitrex or FTX goes bankrupt and tries to keep your crypto coins?

I am worried more about Coinbase collapsing and not giving back funds (which in a filing a few months ago they said they could do!!) than I am about someone hacking my account and stealing the coins from coinbase.

need some good knowledge here!

LMCane said:

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I am setting up my Ledger Nano S now.

1. a youtuber is stating the ledger only holds the Private Key and not the actual bitcoin which is on the blockchain

2. but then what happens when you move the crypto onto the ledger?

3. isn't the entire point of doing this to not only protect the key, but in case Coinbase or Bitrex or FTX goes bankrupt and tries to keep your crypto coins?

I am worried more about Coinbase collapsing and not giving back funds (which in a filing a few months ago they said they could do!!) than I am about someone hacking my account and stealing the coins from coinbase.

need some good knowledge here!

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The ledger holds the private keys to YOUR unique BTC *ADDRESS*. You are moving your coins to YOUR address which only you hold the keys to.

The address is on the blockchain. No one can access your coins from your address without your keys.

will25u said:

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Mail is a semi good analogy.

Post Office = blockchain
PO BOX = your address
Physical key to open PO BOX = your private keys. **NOTE** in this scenario, the Post Office does not own a second set of keys, nor can they open your PO BOX, only put stuff in your mailbox.

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Sticking with this analogy. Coinbase has a much much bigger PO Box than you, but in the event they go tits up the post office itself is fine preserving the security of your little box. And in a few years a new big name will buy coinbase's old box.

Celsius is one of the largest centralized gateways to crypto.

It raised $864m of venture capital and at one point custodied over $3 billion of funds for 1m+ customers.

As of today, it appears insolvent, and it's taking the whole crypto market with it.

The Celsius Thread:

👇

— jonwu.aztec (@jonwu_) June 13, 2022

Big giant oof.

Chrundle the Great said:

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will25u said:

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Mail is a semi good analogy.

Post Office = blockchain
PO BOX = your address
Physical key to open PO BOX = your private keys. **NOTE** in this scenario, the Post Office does not own a second set of keys, nor can they open your PO BOX, only put stuff in your mailbox.

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Sticking with this analogy. Coinbase has a much much bigger PO Box than you, but in the event they go tits up the post office itself is fine preserving the security of your little box. And in a few years a new big name will buy coinbase's old box.

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how come I have seen that Coinbase, in the event they go bankrupt, is under no obligation to return money to all it's customers?

if I move all my BTC and ETH onto my ledger, do I then still need Coinbase?

if Coinbase has my keys now that are used for my account- how come no one at coinbase steals everything like the armored car bank drivers sometimes do?

LMCane said:

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how come I have seen that Coinbase, in the event they go bankrupt, is under no obligation to return money to all it's customers?

if I move all my BTC and ETH onto my ledger, do I then still need Coinbase?

if Coinbase has my keys now that are used for my account- how come no one at coinbase steals everything like the armored car bank drivers sometimes do?

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If you move your BTC and ETH to Ledger, you no longer need Coinbase. But if you ever want to buy/sell your BTC/ETH, you'll have to move it to an exchange first. Which is fine. Just minimize the time that your coins are held on exchanges.

Deluxe said:

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LMCane said:

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how come I have seen that Coinbase, in the event they go bankrupt, is under no obligation to return money to all it's customers?

if I move all my BTC and ETH onto my ledger, do I then still need Coinbase?

if Coinbase has my keys now that are used for my account- how come no one at coinbase steals everything like the armored car bank drivers sometimes do?

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If you move your BTC and ETH to Ledger, you no longer need Coinbase. But if you ever want to buy/sell your BTC/ETH, you'll have to move it to an exchange first. Which is fine. Just minimize the time that your coins are held on exchanges.

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And some exchanges (not Coinbase to my knowledge) have been hacked and robbed blind. Not necessarily an inside job as alluded to here, but this is the exact risk exposure that moving to cold storage or a wallet is trying to reduce.

good info here thanks Ags

let's say I want to buy more BTC- I need to use Coinbase for that and not the ledger app Nano Live?

what is stopping someone at Coinbase today from pilfering accounts as currently they are controlling so many keys?

and so I think the conclusion is MOVE THE CRYPTO from coinbase onto the Ledger - so that no one can steal it and then when I want to buy more or sell go back and link with Coinbase?

Yes, you need to buy your coins on exchanges like Coinbase, Kraken, FTX, etc. I've started to buy my Bitcoin on Strike.

Coinbase very likely is not going to commit fraud and steal funds out of customer accounts. They'd be subject to criminal penalties and whatever other reprimands come down from the SEC (they're a publicly traded company). The risk with Coinbase is that they become insolvent and have to dip into customer funds to pay bills... combined with a run on the bank type of situation. That's also unlikely but not outside the realm of possible.

LMCane said:

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if I move all my BTC and ETH onto my ledger, do I then still need Coinbase?

if Coinbase has my keys now that are used for my account- how come no one at coinbase steals everything like the armored car bank drivers sometimes do?

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You need Coinbase or Gemini because it's an exchange for whenever you want to sell a BTC. Unless you're sending to a person with another BTC address, which can be done from your Ledger. For example, I sold a few dollars worth of BTC for a purchase because the other party didn't accept BTC. So I moved it to Coinbase, sold there, transferred dollars to my bank account. You need an exchange in the event you want to sell for dollars.

Move your stuff to Ledger and Coinbase going tits up doesn't mean anything to you. You can switch to a different exchange if/when you want dollars or transfer BTC's directly to other BTC addresses.

LMCane said:

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good info here thanks Ags

let's say I want to buy more BTC- I need to use Coinbase for that and not the ledger app Nano Live?

what is stopping someone at Coinbase today from pilfering accounts as currently they are controlling so many keys?

and so I think the conclusion is MOVE THE CRYPTO from coinbase onto the Ledger - so that no one can steal it and then when I want to buy more or sell go back and link with Coinbase?

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I don't know what kind of protections are setup within Coinbase specifically, but I have a reasonable guess on a few things.

Namely, no person within Coinbase has access to your private keys in clear plaintext. Period. Any keys stored at Coinbase should be and are almost assuredly stored in hashed form, making them virtually useless as long as the hash is sufficient and not compromised (see md5...).

The keys are then only available in memory (not on disk) when also authenticated by you directly with your password, 2FA, etc. And that memory is also likely sandboxed as well.

So the defensible attack surface is a well-defined system, and provided they remain diligent in their development methods, software qa and patching bugs, you should be able to have full confidence in them just as you would your online bank or broker or similar institution.

If administrative errors were back with us, I would say..

Welcome back!! The forum has been nearly void of Bitcoin hype since you were banned. Are you stacking some of these 20k sats?

...IF he were back.

I've heard he communes with some posters from the great beyond

Seeing some chatter from reputable sources that 3AC situation is much worse than anyone thinks. Be careful out there.

so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?

LMCane said:

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so even if my Ledger Nano S is destroyed somehow, the BTC I transferred can still be accessed by ANOTHER Ledger if I have my 24 word backup codes correct?

let's say I transfer 75% of my BTC from Coinbase to my ledger. somehow the Blockchain knows that my ledger does not have access to my full amount? (as 25% is still on Coinbase)

how does that work?

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For a real in depth answer, I would highly recommend reading The Bitcoin standard and Mastering Bitcoin. The Bitcoin standard gives you a mile high view on how POW functions, and why Bitcoin has value. Mastering Bitcoin will give you answers to more technical questions like how the blockchain actually works.