I'm going to be optimistic and believe the RRC numbers are correct. If you look at the stats for New Mexico oil production, Lea & Eddy County produced about 388,000 BOPD. They are much higher producing than any Texas county in the Permian. Production has to be falling. If not, which companies are increasing production?
Houston..we have a problem....
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Last: 14 hrs ago by SweaterVest
The 388,000 BOPD was for April.
quote:Shell
At some of the other majors offices you aren't allowed to drink coffee or walk up/down stairs without going through safety orientation as well, from what I have been told.
Walk up and down the stairs while holding the rail at all times.
Swift Energy hiring Lazard to help with "strategic alternatives".
Ruh roh.
Ruh roh.
Assume they couldn't get the debt rolled into the new term agreement.
Term Loan failed.
Hold BOTH rails on escalators. 3 point contact has evolved from eyes-hand-feet to both hands-feet-eyes because some dumb ass didn't know what it meant, claimed "SAFETY" when called out on it, and no one bothered to question it.
golferag, what do you do for a living? You can pm me if you prefer not on the board.
Those safety rules are worse than the army. The crap we were doing was extremely dangerous, even in training. But the stuff you guys describe is worse.
I believe the FRC problem is a government requirement now. It does create more injuries than it prevents.
quote:quote:Shell
At some of the other majors offices you aren't allowed to drink coffee or walk up/down stairs without going through safety orientation as well, from what I have been told.
Walk up and down the stairs while holding the rail at all times.
I slid down a rail once when I worked at WCK.
quote:Having manufactured FRC stuff at different times in my career I know quite about about how to make them but not so much about the why. On a personal level I am aware of, documented, about 6 lives and or at the least serious injuries that have been staved off by FR clothing. There are probably more.
FRCs are a sore subject with me. They have led to more heat related injuries than flash fires ever would. Completely ridiculous and a wasted expense. COP and Exxon may have started it but everyone else in the industry has continued to make it worse. All the service companies that I know of require them at all times on location or in the yard.
Safety is very important, I have seen some needless injuries over my career. But FRCs should be done away with ASAP except in cases where a flash fire is actually a hazard, which is in very few instances.
In the last 3-5 years there has been a large push and effort on the part of the manufacturers to make FR stuff as comfortable and environment friendly as possible, witness the vented back coveralls and shirts.
One technical aspect of the whole FR deal that adds quite a bit of cost to the deal is that the O&G companies all seem to require "personalization" and "customization" of their products; i.e. all kinds of name patches, flags, logo's, and all kinds of odd reflective patterns with special reflective specked in, FR of course, and thus the cost gets way high. If things were more standardized the cost would come down greatly for many of these companies.
I do think the FR stuff is over used, but I really don't know as I am just not that familiar with all the applications. I think the O&G companies know that this is mainly a CYA deal, but that hasn't stopped the safety side of things of going way out of control.
The companies that still require NOMEX are nuts, at least the FR Cotton and some of the other fabrics are much, much cooler.
People whining about FRC's being hot? Boohoo. You're responsible for managing yourself in the heat.
Safety culture can be annoying at times, however, I'd rather be annoyed than die 1 of a million different gruesome ways available in a chemical plant.
Fire. Explosions. Toxic gas releases. Falls. Arc flash. Electrocution. Asphyxiation. Rotating equipment.
Safety culture can be annoying at times, however, I'd rather be annoyed than die 1 of a million different gruesome ways available in a chemical plant.
Fire. Explosions. Toxic gas releases. Falls. Arc flash. Electrocution. Asphyxiation. Rotating equipment.
quote:
People whining about FRC's being hot? Boohoo. You're responsible for managing yourself in the heat.
Safety culture can be annoying at times, however, I'd rather be annoyed than die 1 of a million different gruesome ways available in a chemical plant.
Fire. Explosions. Toxic gas releases. Falls. Arc flash. Electrocution. Asphyxiation. Rotating equipment.
The key point there is IN a chemical plant. This is just another example of "safety" being used as an excuse to jack up costs regardless if there is an actual risk. Of course there has to be jobs added to handle all the administration of make belief "safety" and so the trend grows as well as the costs associated with it.
We just had am operator tell us our labor costs were too high. Never mind it was a repeat order so practically no engineering (which is normally what drives the majority of our labor cost). What was the added costs? Just the added requirements of the operator we didn't want. Mainly additional HSE personel to meet a ratio not required by any other customer. When we explained we met that ratio for our manufacturing activities, but would have to needlessly double our HSE department to account for office workers, they flipped.
Not that I disagree that some things are getting out of hand, but having been on site within 100 ft of an over pressure event, I tend to lean on being over protective versus under protective.
quote:
Not that I disagree that some things are getting out of hand, but having been on site within 100 ft of an over pressure event, I tend to lean on being over protective versus under protective.
Again ON SITE, sure. Across town in an office, really?
I sat in a meeting today discussing your exact persona/attitude. Please tell me you are in your 20's or low 30's? Once that is confirmed, please tell me how we get the simple and extremely easy to follow safety message across to you and how to get you to follow it?
Safety fight!
hahaha! not intentional just got to reading this thread for today and saw all the safety related posts. Confirmed many assumptions.
Also probably a good time to attest my love for this thread in writing. Lots of great back and forth with many many good points of view.
Also probably a good time to attest my love for this thread in writing. Lots of great back and forth with many many good points of view.
It is a great thread. I'm not in the industry and I have learned a lot and enjoy reading it.
In my career I have seen a lady catch a heel on he pant cuff and fall down the stairs knocking all her front teeth out.
Another fellow ruptured his ear drum cleaning his ear with a letter opener.
Two months ago a guy got hit in the head by a bathroom door when someone opened it too hard and a lady broke a little toe on her desk due to flip flops.
In my previous company a guy passed out on the first day of work when they showed the first aid video with blood. He broke his nose.
Another fellow ruptured his ear drum cleaning his ear with a letter opener.
Two months ago a guy got hit in the head by a bathroom door when someone opened it too hard and a lady broke a little toe on her desk due to flip flops.
In my previous company a guy passed out on the first day of work when they showed the first aid video with blood. He broke his nose.
quote:
I sat in a meeting today discussing your exact persona/attitude. Please tell me you are in your 20's or low 30's? Once that is confirmed, please tell me how we get the simple and extremely easy to follow safety message across to you and how to get you to follow it?
I'm in my 30s. I'm actually extremely safety conscience. I'll stop work in a second if something is unsafe and have in both the commercial construction industry and now in the epc world. Doesn't change the fact that just because something "makes us safer" doesn't mean it actually mitigates an actual risk.
We are at a point in our industry where things deamed as safety requirements don't actually have anything to do with an actual risk, but are wants or preferences or job security.
If you actually want to reach "guys with my persona" to listen, stop crying wolf. Over exposure leads to complacency. Perform actual risk analysis, have regular reviews, and cut the unfounded bs. Flame retardant clothing isn't necessary if there isn't a chance of fire, but heat exhaustion is a possible outcome. Hearing protection is irrelevant if work exposure is below average daily norms and can kill communication that could save lives. Instead of sitting around discussing why professionals don't take burdensome processes seriously, reform the actual problem.
After voicing concerns regarding HSE policies impacting winning potential projects I was asked to sit in on a departmental safety meeting. The entire meeting covered how many new safety policies were created and how they were implemented. Not one actual risk was discussed. When I asked what risks were determined, how they were determined and how these policies mitigate them, the answer was amazing. The new policies had nothing to do with real risks. These people's jobs were to administer current policies and participate in brain storming sessions on policies for every day activities. They were required to create new safety policies and so they did with a complete ignorance as to why.
I have a particular appreciation of the excessive safety culture when overseas. Construction workers from places like Bangladesh and China have some interesting "ideas" on what's safe. I say "ideas" because most of them don't think at all.
My favorites are the homemade tools crafted from re-bar because the bosses are too cheap to buy the appropriate gear.
My favorites are the homemade tools crafted from re-bar because the bosses are too cheap to buy the appropriate gear.
quote:
Flame retardant clothing aren't necessary if there isn't a chance of fire, but heat exhaustion is.
So who's wearing FRC's that shouldn't be?
If someone has heat exhaustion, I'm assuming they didn't receive training to recognize the signs of heat exhaustion. Snicker.
In a chemical plant or refinery or operating compressor station, OK, wear FRC, inside the fence. If I am putting together new pipe, fittings, and valves in 100 degree heat in a new, grass roots facility, and won't tie in for 2 months, is frc helping? I think not
Cody
Fightin Texas Aggie c/o 04
Fightin Texas Aggie c/o 04
quote:your awareness is highly appreciated and you cite some great examples of the slow creep of the HSE iron dome. you also cite some not so good examples too (a deeper understanding of your contractor "labor costs" would be beneficial) but in general if you are willing to stop work over a situation that you deem unsafe, thats all most companies are asking for. The issue is that while you are willing to do that, "your persona" seems unwilling and almost defiant against holding the hand rail while using the stairs in the home office or you mock the 20 minute safety video for home office orientation (note i am generalizing here).
I'm in my 30s. I'm actually extremely safety conscience. I'll stop work in a second if something is unsafe and have in both the commercial construction industry and now in the epc world. Doesn't change the fact that just because something "makes us safer" doesn't mean it actually mitigates an actual risk.
We are at a point in our industry where things deamed as safety requirements don't actually have anything to do with an actual risk, but are wants or preferences or job security.
If you actually want to reach "guys with my persona" to listen, stop crying wolf. Over exposure leads to complacency. Perform actual risk analysis, have regular reviews, and cut the unfounded bs. Flame retardant clothing aren't necessary if there isn't a chance of fire, but heat exhaustion is. Hearing protection is irrelevant if work exposure is below average daily norms and can kill communication that could save lives. Instead of sitting around discussing why professionals don't take burdensome processes seriously, reform the actual problem.
I am not in HSE, just a commercial guy who cares about safety so my perspective is more from the awareness/understanding side than anything else. Not all safety initiatives bears these vast costs, but more-so attempt to cultivate a culture of safety. Its also worth noting that we were not sitting around "discussing why professionals don't take burdensome processes seriously" because in many cases safety is a condition of employment, which shouldn't be a burden.
quote:Why would your companies safety policies affect your chances of winning work? If you work for an EPC contractor, your measured on your recordables in most cases as far as an operator/owner/noc/ioc would be concerned. If you are saying your policies are causing a lot of recordables (trir) so you look bad compared to your competitors, thats certainly a problem. Alternatively if you are saying your safety policies are dramatically inflating your costs, thats a BD issue not understanding the requirements of the bid (most owner/operators make EPC's follow their rules) and not being very savvy at building up costs.quote:
After voicing concerns regarding HSE policies impacting winning potential projects I was asked to sit in on a departmental safety meeting. The entire meeting covered how many new safety policies were created and how they were implemented. Not one actual risk was discussed. When I asked what risks were determined, how they were determined and how these policies mitigate them, the answer was amazing. The new policies had nothing to do with real risks. These people's jobs were to administer current policies and participate in brain storming sessions on policies for every day activities. They were required to create new safety policies and so they did with a complete ignorance as to why.
I'll add that based on the meeting you are describing your EPC isn't all that good at cost management anyways, but thats for another time.
You girls calm down. Why you think Exxon owns xto but kept them as their own operator? They know they can drill a well cheaper with xto. It's hard to go backwards on safety. And think, if this last a few years, the ramp up will bring all green hands back into the work force. All the guys that rode it up for the last 15 years and then got laid off, won't come back and start over. It will be all guys that previously worked at whataburger.
the kind of people *****ing about safety rules are probably the ones who get hurt and wonder how it happened to them.
My sites are safe, and have always been safe, even pre-frc and 15 safety meetings per day (serious, not sarcasm, we have to have a safety meeting every time a job task changes).
If you want to make safety a priority, I agree with you. But the over the top policies are not making the guys safer. Taking 15 mins to tell a hand that he needs Chapstick doesn't make him more safety aware, it just gets in the way of him doing his job. Telling everyone that it's hot outside and you have to take a break every 15 mins and to be cognizant of heat stress is a good plan, but making them wear extremely hot frc clothing when there's no risk of fire is asinine.
If you want to make safety a priority, I agree with you. But the over the top policies are not making the guys safer. Taking 15 mins to tell a hand that he needs Chapstick doesn't make him more safety aware, it just gets in the way of him doing his job. Telling everyone that it's hot outside and you have to take a break every 15 mins and to be cognizant of heat stress is a good plan, but making them wear extremely hot frc clothing when there's no risk of fire is asinine.
After getting hit with a pressurized line because a field hand was "too busy" to follow safety protocol on location, I no longer scoff at safety measures. I've also seen and heard about too many guys, young and old, who are either no longer with us or can't ever work again because they didn't think the safety measures in place were important.
That said, companies that dictate how you walk up and down stairs in an office is a bit much, but they do it because too many people couldn't figure out how to navigate stairs. So blame your coworkers for the ridiculous safety measures your company implements in your office.
That said, companies that dictate how you walk up and down stairs in an office is a bit much, but they do it because too many people couldn't figure out how to navigate stairs. So blame your coworkers for the ridiculous safety measures your company implements in your office.
quote:No chance of a flash fire when fitting pipe? Uhh, ok...
In a chemical plant or refinery or operating compressor station, OK, wear FRC, inside the fence. If I am putting together new pipe, fittings, and valves in 100 degree heat in a new, grass roots facility, and won't tie in for 2 months, is frc helping? I think not
I never thought safety/FRC's would be what derailed this thread ...
Just survived a round of layoffs. I'd rather not say the company but we're a decent sized independent operator on the GOM shelf. It's a weird weird mood being happy to have a job while being sad for friends and uneasy about the future but to paraphrase Ron Washington that's the way oilfield go.
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