For sure. Once these policies take place, SWA's version of BE will likely be cheaper than United but will still come with the flexible change policies and two free checked bags. You'll likely just end up with a middle seat or a window/aisle in the back

If you choose to purchase a premium seat, that may become more expensive than United's BE but will still be cheaper than the same seat on UA.

All in all, the fare structure is lower than United but SWA should make more with the folks who decide to purchase those products.

That's my $0.02 but will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

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Sounds like they are basically changing into every other airline.

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but without a first class option.

Hoyt Ag said:

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Their cancellation policy beats the others, IMO.

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does it?

United has no cancellation fees & no change fees. If a flight booked with points is cancelled, you immediately get all points back; if booked with $, you get flight credit I think lasts 12 months.

How is SW better? I haven't flown them since pre covid, so not familiar with them anymore.

You're right that the Legacies mostly caught up to SWA during covid by removing most fees. However, SWA flight credits don't expire while United's do after a year and if I remember correctly, United imposes more restrictive change/cancel policies on basic economy fares

There was a chart one time about differences between airlines at one point with basic cost of flight and percentage of price point the airline was to that basic cost. along with other differences

no idea where or when i saw it but i wonder if this changes preferences

TXTransplant said:

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62strat said:

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Hoyt Ag said:

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Their cancellation policy beats the others, IMO.

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does it?

United has no cancellation fees & no change fees. If a flight booked with points is cancelled, you immediately get all points back; if booked with $, you get flight credit I think lasts 12 months.

How is SW better? I haven't flown them since pre covid, so not familiar with them anymore.

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SW's policy is nice because you can no-hassle cancel any ticket and rebook simply because the price went down (and get a credit for future travel).

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I do this with my United reward flights nearly every time. Once I book, I check it about twice a month. It almost always drops so I rebook to get the points back. I'm fairly certain a $ paid flight has this option too. For basic economy, they will retain the fare different to get to economy. So you might lose $20-$30 if you booked basic economy.. but come on.. spend the $30, get a free seat, and a full refund if you cancel. No brainer.

All they are doing with basic economy is taking economy and giving you credit for a seat if you don't want to pick it. So like you said.. 'options'.

So, SW will give you the refund even if you pay for the seats. The refund is in the form of a credit, but you don't have to book with points (although they will refund points, too).

I also book a fair number of one-way trips, and SW is def the easiest airline to do this with. Yet another reason why I've been a frequent customer.

United may or may not add an upcharge when you book one way.

Seems like for me the diff between basic economy and economy on United is more than a $30-$60 seat fee. But again, it varies from flight to flight, as does the price of the seat. You basically have to put in all your personal info and advance to check out before you know how much the ticket costs.

I appreciated knowing exactly what my SW flight costs after just a simple search.

CDub06 said:

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TXTransplant said:

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I listened to this a couple of weeks ago and knew it was inevitable.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-journal/id1469394914?i=1000660098583

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I've read all the talk from the investors and knew it was inevitable as well. The writing has been on the wall. But I'm still not pleased. For me, this (and the rumored changes) make them just like any other airline, so what differentiates them now? All things equal, why wouldn't I just go all in with United who has way more destinations?

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That is what I have done. I have cards from both SW and United and all my purchasing is has been going on United for over a year now. I still have almost 200K points on SW that we need to burn off. That is going kinda slow because I am hesitant to fly them with how unreliable they have been lately.

I used to like them for their customer service, then they turned into the old Chicago based United model so fast it made my head spin. They stopped being proactive about admitting their issues and instead started blaming the weather for everything.

I still liked them because they were dependable. Then they stranded us for a day in Colorado and refused to reimburse us for anything. Then they stranded us in Provo, T&C during spring break and made us find a last minute hotel room...and refused to reimburse us for anything. Then they stranded my wife in Dallas and refused to pay for her hotel room (actually turned her away at the gate with the door still open telling her that "all of the ticketed passengers have boarded", which was a lie because she was a ticketed passenger). When she objected and showed her boarding pass, they told her to check with the counter agent. When she turned around to go to the counter, they closed the door behind her and bailed out, leaving her stranded overnight since that was the last flight.

When they were a low cost, friendly, reliable airline, people could overlook the weird boarding process. Now that they are just like everybody else, the boarding process is seen by them as an issue, when it is all the other things that are making people stop flying them.

BMX Bandit said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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TXTransplant said:

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Paying more to sit closer to the front of the plane is stupid, and I hate when other airlines charge for that.

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Yeah, it's like people think they're getting to the destination faster by sitting closer to the front. The only time this would make sense is if you need to make a tight connection.

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disagree here.

well worth it to get off the plane and where you are going as quickly as possible. it can be a 20 minute difference in getting off the plane.

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depends.

if you have a connection, absolutely.

if you checked a bag, there's really no point. chances are they wont come out until everyone has deplaned.

if you simply prefer to sit toward the front, fair enough.

TXTransplant said:

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So, SW will give you the refund even if you pay for the seats. The refund is in the form of a credit, but you don't have to book with points (although they will refund points, too).

I also book a fair number of one-way trips, and SW is def the easiest airline to do this with. Yet another reason why I've been a frequent customer.

United may or may not add an upcharge when you book one way.

Seems like for me the diff between basic economy and economy on United is more than a $30-$60 seat fee. But again, it varies from flight to flight, as does the price of the seat. You basically have to put in all your personal info and advance to check out before you know how much the ticket costs.

I appreciated knowing exactly what my SW flight costs after just a simple search.

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you're getting nit picky here.
'put in all your personal info'..
you mean do that once in your profile so it automatically does it when you book a flight?

I just mock booked den-la, it took me under 20 seconds after hitting search on main page to select basic economy, hit next (my personal info page with my info as default), next again (travel bundle selections), and seat selector came up.

Economy was $135, basic was $105

seats on basic were $37/30/39 for preferred spots (window/middle/aisle), the last 8-10 rows were $19/$18/$24
on economy, preferred were $30/$22/$35, back is free, and priority seats up front are 97/93/97

so it's a bit cheaper to go basic and buy the seat. saves you $20 or so if you picked preferred spot, or $5-$10 if you sit in the back.

economy plus was $221 which comes with priority seats up front, so you save $10 instead of getting regular and pick one of those seats.

Talk about options, geez they slice and dice it every which way to sunday.

TXTransplant said:

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So, SW will give you the refund even if you pay for the seats. The refund is in the form of a credit, but you don't have to book with points (although they will refund points, too).

I also book a fair number of one-way trips, and SW is def the easiest airline to do this with. Yet another reason why I've been a frequent customer.

United may or may not add an upcharge when you book one way.

Seems like for me the diff between basic economy and economy on United is more than a $30-$60 seat fee. But again, it varies from flight to flight, as does the price of the seat. You basically have to put in all your personal info and advance to check out before you know how much the ticket costs.

I appreciated knowing exactly what my SW flight costs after just a simple search.

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forgot to add;

not sure we're on the same page with the whole credit thing. United gives refund if you pay for economy flights with $. It's 1 year credit. With points, you just get points back. Or you can change with no fees.
This seems exactly the same as SW. this all happened post covid.

I've never booked a rt on united. I always do one way, because I find it's not more expensive (I think it's been cheaper a few times, and more flexible with cancelling/rebooking to save points or $.



I've also booked in pairs before, instead of all 4 for family.
Many times, there is a price, say $100, but it only has say 2 of those, then it goes to $120. If you book 4, it does them all at $120. If you do 2, you can 2 at $100, then 2 more at $120, saving me $40.

It's a weird little thing in the system, but I come across it often.

barbacoa taco said:

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BMX Bandit said:

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barbacoa taco said:

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TXTransplant said:

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Paying more to sit closer to the front of the plane is stupid, and I hate when other airlines charge for that.

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Yeah, it's like people think they're getting to the destination faster by sitting closer to the front. The only time this would make sense is if you need to make a tight connection.

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disagree here.

well worth it to get off the plane and where you are going as quickly as possible. it can be a 20 minute difference in getting off the plane.

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depends.

if you have a connection, absolutely.

if you checked a bag, there's really no point. chances are they wont come out until everyone has deplaned.

if you simply prefer to sit toward the front, fair enough.

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having a connection is just one scenario.

If you carry on and have a rental, beating that entire plan to the rental counter can mean a 30 min. difference.
or carry on and you have to catch shuttle, that can make a big difference..
or going through customs..

Several scenarios where getting off the plan first can make a big difference.

But correct, if you checked, it may not make a difference.

When I first read your post, I think it just mentioned points. Then you went back and edited to add $, but I may have already replied. Just missed timing.

I'll admit, I hate United as much as some people hate SW, so the idea of becoming loyal to them makes me cringe.

Most of the legacy carriers finally caught on regarding one way (prob thanks to SW), but it's not a guarantee they won't tack on extra. I've seen United still charge more for one way.

TXTransplant said:

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When I first read your post, I think it just mentioned points. Then you went back and edited to add $, but I may have already replied. Just missed timing.

I'll admit, I hate United as much as some people hate SW, so the idea of becoming loyal to them makes me cringe.

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I guess I've enough bad experiences, and good experiences with nearly every airline that it's proven to me it doesn't really matter. There is no perfect airline. They all lose bags, they all have questionable characters and incidents on board, they are all late now and again. They all have older planes in the fleet which seem ancient compared to new ones. At this point, they all nickle and dime you, whether it's picking a seat because you got a cheaper fare, or paying extra so you can get on early and pick your seat.. whatever.


I left SWA after having a few freebee united club passes, and realized it was a big improvement when flying solo and especially with family. I never hated SWA really, but getting club access and occasional first class for a special occasion was something they just couldn't offer.

Like this upcoming trip for my kids 10th, we're doing cancun with 2 sets of neighbors. Wife or kids don't know yet, but I got first class. It will be something he remembers forever, and southwest simply doesn't offer that opportunity, now matter how loyal you are to them.

You are spot on in booking in pairs and such, we do this on large group trips when we dive.

I looked at a trip at Christmas I have booked. My SW ticket HDN to HOU was $489 when I booked it. I did the Anytime fare. I just now looked at the same United flight to IAH at the Economy Fully refundable fare (same features of the SW Anytime fare) and it is currently $632 plus baggage fees. The Basic Economy fare is $437 which is great but it says no carry on and no refund or change fees. I dunno, I guess if I had a United card it would help or something.

Its like anything travel related, just have to know how to play the game and work the system in your favor. Have rewards accounts or cards for individual carriers and use that to your advantage.

Good discussion and examples given. Thanks for clarifying some things on the United side, although I avoid them as they lost my business long ago.

62strat said:

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TXTransplant said:

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When I first read your post, I think it just mentioned points. Then you went back and edited to add $, but I may have already replied. Just missed timing.

I'll admit, I hate United as much as some people hate SW, so the idea of becoming loyal to them makes me cringe.

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I guess I've enough bad experiences, and good experiences with nearly every airline that it's proven to me it doesn't really matter. There is no perfect airline. They all lose bags, they all have questionable characters and incidents on board, they are all late now and again. They all have older planes in the fleet which seem ancient compared to new ones. At this point, they all nickle and dime you, whether it's picking a seat because you got a cheaper fare, or paying extra so you can get on early and pick your seat.. whatever.


I left SWA after having a few freebee united club passes, and realized it was a big improvement when flying solo and especially with family. I never hated SWA really, but getting club access and occasional first class for a special occasion was something they just couldn't offer.

Like this upcoming trip for my kids 10th, we're doing cancun with 2 sets of neighbors. Wife or kids don't know yet, but I got first class. It will be something he remembers forever, and southwest simply doesn't offer that opportunity, now matter how loyal you are to them.

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Agreed. Kinda why I fly the Asia airlines when I go international, it is just a better overall experience. US carriers do not come close in service, cleanliness or overall experience when compared to the Asian airlines. Just my opinion though.

But you are right, there is no perfect airline.

Completely agree… they can all suck, especially as of late.

We got caught up in the SW Christmas meltdown, and it took months for me to get everything squared away for all 6 of us who were traveling. Huge headache. But they did make us whole plus some extra.

Bottom line is, air travel is getting more expensive and less convenient than ever. Covid followed up by crazy inflation has really made me frustrated with traveling, but it still is one of my favorite things to do.

If they charge for seat selection, I think they lose a ton of their base (myself included). Why am I going to pay $10 less than an AA or United flight to connect through DAL or BNA or wherever when I could fly direct on another airline?

62strat said:

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TXTransplant said:

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So, SW will give you the refund even if you pay for the seats. The refund is in the form of a credit, but you don't have to book with points (although they will refund points, too).

I also book a fair number of one-way trips, and SW is def the easiest airline to do this with. Yet another reason why I've been a frequent customer.

United may or may not add an upcharge when you book one way.

Seems like for me the diff between basic economy and economy on United is more than a $30-$60 seat fee. But again, it varies from flight to flight, as does the price of the seat. You basically have to put in all your personal info and advance to check out before you know how much the ticket costs.

I appreciated knowing exactly what my SW flight costs after just a simple search.

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you're getting nit picky here.
'put in all your personal info'..
you mean do that once in your profile so it automatically does it when you book a flight?

I just mock booked den-la, it took me under 20 seconds after hitting search on main page to select basic economy, hit next (my personal info page with my info as default), next again (travel bundle selections), and seat selector came up….

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Edited your post after the quote, just so it doesn't take up so much space.

We fundamentally disagree on this point.

When I want to compare flight options/prices, I shouldn't have to go to each individual airline's website and do everything but checkout to see what the price is.

If there was any sort of consistency in seat pricing, it might be more tolerable. But no two seats cost the same. Some flights charge extra for every seat, some charge extra for every aisle seat, some flights have seats with no extra charge and some don't. It's ridiculous.

Regardless of whether it takes 20 seconds or 20 min, that's not transparent. And the lack of transparency is bad for consumers.

As far as "options" go, yeah…more options to be nickel and dimed.

The companion pass will likely keep me as a SW customer. That said, I'm interested in how this affects the A-List customers. I'm pre-check so the only A-List benefit to me is early boarding.

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I looked at a trip at Christmas I have booked. My SW ticket HDN to HOU was $489 when I booked it. I did the Anytime fare. I just now looked at the same United flight to IAH at the Economy Fully refundable fare (same features of the SW Anytime fare) and it is currently $632 plus baggage fees. The Basic Economy fare is $437 which is great but it says no carry on and no refund or change fees. I dunno, I guess if I had a United card it would help or something.

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why economy fully refundable?
You can do economy, pick a free seat outside of front 1/3 of plane, and still get a full 12 month flight credit if you cancel. Unless you absolutely have to have a refund to form of payment.

and yes, with a $100 yearly united card, you'd get a free bag, 2 club passes, priority boarding, etc.

TXTra said:

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We fundamentally disagree on this point.

When I want to compare flight options/prices, I shouldn't have to go to each individual airline's website and do everything but checkout to see what the price is.

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you don't if you look at economy fare. it includes free seating in about half the plane. No adding to cart necessary.

Again, the basic economy is just charging less and then charging for the seat. it's a wash for the most part.

Before SW was added to google flights, isn't that what you had to do to compare SW pricing?


Maybe I'm just fast, but when we're brainstorming trips, I can hop on united.com and get pricing pretty damn quick to different destinations and dates.
And then hop on SW to do the same. And used to do it on frontier.

As of late, I don't bother with others, I just stick with one. I figure if I save $200 by using southwest, well I lose it when I have to pay for food/drinks for the family at the airport, not have a quiet place to sit with comfy chairs and power and have to add on early bird to sit together.

I wanted to compare apples to apples, thus compare both fares that give full refunds to show equal examples.

I did do that before SW was added to Google flights. That was a very nice change, albeit a short-lived one, once SW swaps over.

My gripe about cost transparency isn't only directed to United. AA, Delta, Air Canada, WestJet, and JetBlue all have the same issue.

I can't remember what airline it was, but I'm fairly certain I saw an economy price on a US airline recently where ALL the seats had an upcharge fee. AA maybe? I can't remember. I usually only fly them once a year, and I noticed their fare structure this year was very different (and not in a good way).

When an economy domestic ticket costs $500+, having to pay extra to pick a seat is just a slap in the face to consumers.

For AA I believe their basic economy fare doesn't assign you a seat until you get to the gate unless you pay.

I think that's correct, too. AA has a version of United's basic economy that is basically the same.

But i want to say, for these flights we just took, we had to pay extra for seats even with the next fare up (which was economy, rather than AA's version of basic economy). And it wasn't just exit row seats, because I didn't book those. My purchase confirmation doesn't say for sure, but I seem to recall having a discussion about the extra cost.

For us Southwest just doesn't make sense. For instance, we just booked flights for Thanksgiving and Christmas.

For Thanksgiving on United it was $231 non-stop from Tulum to IAH for Basic Economy. From Cancun to IAH it was $296.

For SWA into Cancun is $603.

We get 2 checked bags + carry on for free on United because of our card.

In December we're going to SLC from 12/23 to 1/5. It's $810 on SWA and $561 on United.

Depending on your location. SWA just isn't a good deal anymore.

https://t.co/Hkrki39rM2 pic.twitter.com/mzmgFAtHC1

— The Babylon Bee (@TheBabylonBee) July 25, 2024

Can't get over how many people on this thread check bags.