SWA - Ending Open Seating!
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Last: 27 days ago by The Milkman
No mention of when this will begin.
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AG
And so begins the nickel and diming.
And so ends grandma and soccer moms spreading their purses and legs and hair nets and Louis Vuitton purses over 10 seats while the FA says "no saving seats" over the loud speaker.
I personally prefer to know who's sitting next to me on a flight. Nothing worse than grandma saving 8 seats in A all around you only to find out you're sitting next to a 10 month old, 4 2 year olds, and 3 14 year olds that have group C boarding because grandma got early bird for $25.
I personally prefer to know who's sitting next to me on a flight. Nothing worse than grandma saving 8 seats in A all around you only to find out you're sitting next to a 10 month old, 4 2 year olds, and 3 14 year olds that have group C boarding because grandma got early bird for $25.
I find it hard to believe that long-time SWA customers are "clamoring" for this. I actually like open seating. I also liked the option to pay $20 to upgrade to an A boarding position (which has always gotten us an exit row seat when we've needed it).
But I understand to attract new customers, it probably is a change that needs to be made.
The potential problem I see is, SW planes don't have a lot of seats that justify a higher price. There are the three bulkhead seats in the front row and the 8-12 seats in the exit rows. That's it.
Paying more to sit closer to the front of the plane is stupid, and I hate when other airlines charge for that.
But I understand to attract new customers, it probably is a change that needs to be made.
The potential problem I see is, SW planes don't have a lot of seats that justify a higher price. There are the three bulkhead seats in the front row and the 8-12 seats in the exit rows. That's it.
Paying more to sit closer to the front of the plane is stupid, and I hate when other airlines charge for that.
From friends I have that work for SWA, it sounds like they will be charging more for aisle and window vs middle and stagger prices front to back.
For example if a ticket on open seating was $200 for window, middle or aisle, the new system will charge a base $200 which would assign you to a middle seat and then aisle or window would be $220. Sounds like they will also implement it for proximity to the front. So it sounds like you'll pay more for seats closer to the front and more for anything non middle. So the $220 window seat in row 26 may be $250 in row 6.
For example if a ticket on open seating was $200 for window, middle or aisle, the new system will charge a base $200 which would assign you to a middle seat and then aisle or window would be $220. Sounds like they will also implement it for proximity to the front. So it sounds like you'll pay more for seats closer to the front and more for anything non middle. So the $220 window seat in row 26 may be $250 in row 6.
I don't mind having assigned seats. However, as a family of 5, having to pay "extra" for an aisle seat is just ridiculous. So now we'll have to pay more just to sit together so we can obtain an aisle seat x2.
I hate to say this but I think the change was a way to start limiting the large number of families that Southwest carries and trying to get more business class passengers. They aren't explicitly saying "we don't want large families" but that's essentially what these new rules do. It's going to intentionally price out a lot of their current customers but I assume their research showed what they lose in families they will pick up in more frequent business travelers. I know my co workers hate flying southwest for business (I won't do it) because of the open seating and large number of children under 16.
I flew SWA for the first time in years this month and I'm guessing 1/2 the flight boarded during family boarding. As a business traveler, that's a huge no thanks if I can avoid it. Plus, their fares are often higher than United or American where we live. They only real perk is the 2 free bags but you get 1 and sometimes 2 free bags with most other brand airline CCs. Free bags really aren't anything special anymore and most people don't need 2 checked bags unless they are a family and see the comments above about trying to reduce the number of families. Most people found ways around bags fees and don't consider than a real perk anymore. Heck we can pack for a week plus in our carry ons and 2-3 if we have one checked bag. SWA doesn't really fly anywhere that you NEED 2 checked bags as a non family traveler. Same w no change fees. 5 years ago that was great now it's just the norm.
Also found it weird that SWA doesn't offer phone or computer chargers under their seats even in the new 737s. As a business traveler little things like that are huge. SWA missed the boat on a lot of industry advancements over the last 5-10 years while they focused on things that most travels don't care about like sustainable fuel and other wokeness.
I flew SWA for the first time in years this month and I'm guessing 1/2 the flight boarded during family boarding. As a business traveler, that's a huge no thanks if I can avoid it. Plus, their fares are often higher than United or American where we live. They only real perk is the 2 free bags but you get 1 and sometimes 2 free bags with most other brand airline CCs. Free bags really aren't anything special anymore and most people don't need 2 checked bags unless they are a family and see the comments above about trying to reduce the number of families. Most people found ways around bags fees and don't consider than a real perk anymore. Heck we can pack for a week plus in our carry ons and 2-3 if we have one checked bag. SWA doesn't really fly anywhere that you NEED 2 checked bags as a non family traveler. Same w no change fees. 5 years ago that was great now it's just the norm.
Also found it weird that SWA doesn't offer phone or computer chargers under their seats even in the new 737s. As a business traveler little things like that are huge. SWA missed the boat on a lot of industry advancements over the last 5-10 years while they focused on things that most travels don't care about like sustainable fuel and other wokeness.
The article I read said 80% of SWA customers wanted this. They didn't ask me. I'm not a fan.
I wonder what the value of A List and A List Preferred are now.
I wonder what the value of A List and A List Preferred are now.
We travel as a family often and 95% of the time take swa. We're about equal distance to love and DFW so proximity isn't a big deal. The size of Love and navigating with kids is a plus. We're the type that check in the exact second our window opens and hardly get A so we typically board with family boarding. Works great for us. The times I travel without family and don't get A, I roll my eyes when half the gate boards during family. So I get it…I'm a hypocrite ha. Their prices have already been rising so it's not the value it was 5+ years ago. I've always liked SWA points system but I've been contemplating a different card for frequent travel anyways so this will probably push me towards that.
Guess I'll have to take the wait and see approach here.
Guess I'll have to take the wait and see approach here.
I've been flying SWA for nearly 20 years - for both work and leisure travel. I'm not a fan of the change.
When activist investors or naysayers get involved, I think what we see is what was posted above with nickel and diming everything.
When activist investors or naysayers get involved, I think what we see is what was posted above with nickel and diming everything.
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Bayou City said:
From friends I have that work for SWA, it sounds like they will be charging more for aisle and window vs middle and stagger prices front to back.
For example if a ticket on open seating was $200 for window, middle or aisle, the new system will charge a base $200 which would assign you to a middle seat and then aisle or window would be $220. Sounds like they will also implement it for proximity to the front. So it sounds like you'll pay more for seats closer to the front and more for anything non middle. So the $220 window seat in row 26 may be $250 in row 6.
And that is exactly what annoys me about seat charges on any airline. I HATE searching for a ticket and seeing a price, only to end up having $50-$100 added to the price of the ticket because of stupid seat fees. I hate it even more when the seats aren't worth paying extra for.
From a friend:
Premium seating options: Approximately one-third of the seats will feature extended legroom, in line with industry standards. This change is part of Southwest's broader modernization efforts, which also include upgrades like faster Wi-Fi, in-seat power, and larger overhead bins.
He also says the A list and upgrades are all going to be changed too More in line w how United and other carriers offer certain upgrades for certain levels of status like free upgrade to extra legroom, boarding class upgrades and the introduction of snack boxes for purchase or free snack boxes for certain status.
Sounds like they are basically changing into every other airline.
Premium seating options: Approximately one-third of the seats will feature extended legroom, in line with industry standards. This change is part of Southwest's broader modernization efforts, which also include upgrades like faster Wi-Fi, in-seat power, and larger overhead bins.
He also says the A list and upgrades are all going to be changed too More in line w how United and other carriers offer certain upgrades for certain levels of status like free upgrade to extra legroom, boarding class upgrades and the introduction of snack boxes for purchase or free snack boxes for certain status.
Sounds like they are basically changing into every other airline.
Whoop Delecto said:
My wife and I each have SW Visa Premium cards that reimburse 4 upgrade passes each during the year. Those A1-15 upgrades are usually $40 but may vary with flight length.
We've never paid more than $30, usually $20, but that's per leg. So, if you have a connecting flight, it's $20-$30 times 2. And then you have to pay again to upgrade on the return flight home.
The fees do add up, but I like that it's a choice you can make at check-in, rather than when you make the original purchase.
Bayou City said:
From a friend:
Premium seating options: Approximately one-third of the seats will feature extended legroom, in line with industry standards. This change is part of Southwest's broader modernization efforts, which also include upgrades like faster Wi-Fi, in-seat power, and larger overhead bins.
I wonder if they are going to upgrade their existing planes, or if they have already ordered new planes with the modifications.
With the way air travel is right now, I hate to see planes get pulled from service to be upgraded for this. That will just reduce availability and increase fares (even if just short term).
They are going to be retrofitted so it'll take them out of service. Sounds like they will make change orders on what's to be delivered. I'm wondering if this has been in the cards for a while. If you look at the SWA schedule there are a lot of old direct flights that are now 1 stop and a lot more 1 stop flights that now have 2. I think they've had this coming and adjusted the schedule to accommodate the changes. Maybe that's wishful thinking. I'd imagine Boeing will give them a BIL deal on any changes since it may help mitigate some of the damages SWA goes after them for w the whole 737 fiasco.
He's saying later part of Q1 2025 roll out. After holiday travel rush and likely before spring break.
He's saying later part of Q1 2025 roll out. After holiday travel rush and likely before spring break.
Aggie CEO should have consulted this board……….
I listened to this a couple of weeks ago and knew it was inevitable.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-journal/id1469394914?i=1000660098583
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-journal/id1469394914?i=1000660098583
Time to burn off the points and go to a cash back card. Little benefit in getting nickel and dimed now.
At least they'll be like United though. Their decline wasn't driven by seating policies and it won't stop it.
At least they'll be like United though. Their decline wasn't driven by seating policies and it won't stop it.
I've read all the talk from the investors and knew it was inevitable as well. The writing has been on the wall. But I'm still not pleased. For me, this (and the rumored changes) make them just like any other airline, so what differentiates them now? All things equal, why wouldn't I just go all in with United who has way more destinations?TXTransplant said:
I listened to this a couple of weeks ago and knew it was inevitable.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-journal/id1469394914?i=1000660098583
Agree 100%. I liked Southwest precisely because they had a different business model. Was even willing to drive to HOU rather than IAH (which is more convenient) to take advantage of that. I'm expecting it won't be worth it to do that anymore.
I only fly SWA about 3 times a year, and its always for a day trip when I have nothing more than a brief case that can fit under the seat in front of me and pressed for time.
for that reason, I loved the open seating. I always take the first seat available, even if in the middle.
for that reason, I loved the open seating. I always take the first seat available, even if in the middle.
Will likely begin selling in late 2025 for 1Q2026 flying
Yet another incentive to drive.
What will be the distinguishing thing that sets it apart from other airlines now ?
Price point? Bags fly free?
Because the movement towards assigned seating means that i bet those things will change as well over time
Price point? Bags fly free?
Because the movement towards assigned seating means that i bet those things will change as well over time
Their cancellation policy beats the others, IMO.
Bags fly free is a big one. They built a whole marketing strategy around it (which is prob why they don't want to change that).
Cancellation policy is pretty good, but most airlines now at least give you a credit if you have to cancel/reschedule, and that's what you get with SW's cheapest fare. I do like how easy it is to rebook and get a credit if the price of the flight goes down. I don't typically pay the extra to get fully refundable.
We recently flew JetBlue (not by choice), and they have a similar model to what it looks like SW might be going to. No first class, but seats near the front of the plane have more leg room.
We sat in an exit row, which did have an upcharge but not as much as the seats in front of us with extra space.
We were rebooked by AA after a cancellation, and I have no idea what the "normal" cost of the seat would have been.
One differentiating factor is JetBlue has free high speed WiFi - which meant I could surf the web and even watch YouTube videos. SW free WiFi basically only allows for texting.
I'd fly JetBlue again, only prob is the direct flights out of IAH are limited.
Cancellation policy is pretty good, but most airlines now at least give you a credit if you have to cancel/reschedule, and that's what you get with SW's cheapest fare. I do like how easy it is to rebook and get a credit if the price of the flight goes down. I don't typically pay the extra to get fully refundable.
We recently flew JetBlue (not by choice), and they have a similar model to what it looks like SW might be going to. No first class, but seats near the front of the plane have more leg room.
We sat in an exit row, which did have an upcharge but not as much as the seats in front of us with extra space.
We were rebooked by AA after a cancellation, and I have no idea what the "normal" cost of the seat would have been.
One differentiating factor is JetBlue has free high speed WiFi - which meant I could surf the web and even watch YouTube videos. SW free WiFi basically only allows for texting.
I'd fly JetBlue again, only prob is the direct flights out of IAH are limited.
- 2 bags fly free
- Point to point route structure benefiting folks that don't live in legacy hub cities (St Louis, Orlando, Oakland, etc).
- Most flexible cancellation/change policies
- Likely a revamped fare structure so that a "Basic Economy" like seat will be cheaper than the legacy carriers but will provide more upselling options for aisle/window, two seats together, extended legroom, etc.
- Point to point route structure benefiting folks that don't live in legacy hub cities (St Louis, Orlando, Oakland, etc).
- Most flexible cancellation/change policies
- Likely a revamped fare structure so that a "Basic Economy" like seat will be cheaper than the legacy carriers but will provide more upselling options for aisle/window, two seats together, extended legroom, etc.
Yeah, it's like people think they're getting to the destination faster by sitting closer to the front. The only time this would make sense is if you need to make a tight connection.TXTransplant said:
Paying more to sit closer to the front of the plane is stupid, and I hate when other airlines charge for that.
My experience in Houston is that the cheapest economy fares on SW was typically the same price as "basic economy" on United.
United's restrictions on basic economy fares (last person to board, prob a terrible seat assignment, and only one carry on/personal item that has to fit under the seat in front of you) pretty much always made SW the better choice, even if ot meant driving to HOU (assuming flights times/itineraries were comparable).
United's restrictions on basic economy fares (last person to board, prob a terrible seat assignment, and only one carry on/personal item that has to fit under the seat in front of you) pretty much always made SW the better choice, even if ot meant driving to HOU (assuming flights times/itineraries were comparable).
barbacoa taco said:Yeah, it's like people think they're getting to the destination faster by sitting closer to the front. The only time this would make sense is if you need to make a tight connection.TXTransplant said:
Paying more to sit closer to the front of the plane is stupid, and I hate when other airlines charge for that.
I prefer to sit near the front of the plane, but I won't pay extra for it.
I also hate when airlines have an upcharge on EVERY aisle seat, and I've seen that on some flights lately.
I'm noticing that the legacy carriers seem to have a version of "dynamic pricing" on seat fees. Meaning, how much extra you pay (or even if you have to pay to pick a seat) varies from route to route and plane to plane. It's not transparent, and that makes it terrible for consumers.
CDub06 said:
The article I read said 80% of SWA customers wanted this. They didn't ask me. I'm not a fan.
I wonder what the value of A List and A List Preferred are now.
This. I fly SW a lot. Both for work and leisure.
disagree here.barbacoa taco said:Yeah, it's like people think they're getting to the destination faster by sitting closer to the front. The only time this would make sense is if you need to make a tight connection.TXTransplant said:
Paying more to sit closer to the front of the plane is stupid, and I hate when other airlines charge for that.
well worth it to get off the plane and where you are going as quickly as possible. it can be a 20 minute difference in getting off the plane.
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