After reviewing the analytics on last nights Smith->Wade->Velazquez sequence, I'm mildly less irritated by the move from a sabermetrics view. Taking into account adjustments for platoon advantage and PH penalty, going from Cam to Lamonte is..... neutral, maybe? The numbers aren't significantly different with Cam facing a RHP vs Wade facing the same pitcher--maybe even a very very slight tip toward Wade in that case, if we are focused only on that specific at bat.

Of course, the Royals manager pulled the very predictable Uno reverse card with the pitching change and forced Joe into the Velazquez move, because Wade is weak against LHP, Cam was burnt, and Nelson was the least of the bad options at that point.

In general, pinch hitting late in games to me feels like a manager making a move just to say "I tried something". In this case, it seems to be "I tried something" combined with "I didn't see the extremely predictable countermove coming"

That's a lot of words to say "Joe was a ****ing idiot. Again"

If several RHH in a row hadn't just hit the RHP, it would make sense to PH Cam. But everybody but Walker was hitting him (Walker doesn't hit anybody these days, so that is not predictive). It made no sense to make a mostly neutral move that took out your best defensive OF and one of your better slugging bats, just to play lefty righty games.

Ok. I can't let this go. This was an idiotic multiple player switch that burned 2 players and it didn't need to happen.

Great. Joe is hyper focused on L/R and he can't stop it. We get it.

But he HAS to be looking bigger picture of who plays where when the AB is over. He totally committed himself to the worst OF rotation he could possibly have made and quite possibly the worst Of rotation in history with Barrosa and Velazquez at the corners.

And that DIRECtLY led to the ****ing nitwit throwing the ball to god knows who and it rolling through the infield to score extra runs. It was literally little league stuff where the kid who can't play is stuck in RF to hide him and of course a ball gets hit to him where the Benny Hill music starts. He grabs it and with some insane throwing motion lobs it like a grenade goes who knows where.

That was Joes real mistake. He was just flinging poo at the batting matchup and had not a clue where the poo was going to land. And it landed in RF.

10 more games of this managerial disaster. 10 more.

txags92 said:

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If several RHH in a row hadn't just hit the RHP, it would make sense to PH Cam. But everybody but Walker was hitting him (Walker doesn't hit anybody these days, so that is not predictive). It made no sense to make a mostly neutral move that took out your best defensive OF and one of your better slugging bats, just to play lefty righty games.

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Not to mention, Walker was Hoffman's 3rd batter. If you wanted Wade to PH, you let him PH for Walker and not Cam. Doing that guarantees he faces a righty since Hoffman hadn't hit his 3 batter minimum yet. Also, Wade is your lone other 1B so he can fill right in that position. You also don't burn 3 players at once and you keep a better defensive OF. It's not rocket science but Joe makes it seem like it is.

Looking at the lineup today, it seems the play would've been to hit Wade for CW, which I think was noted in the thread at the time...

I think I might skip following the game tonight. Maybe it's too late in the season to be pulling the rip cord, but maybe that's just the vibe shift we need. That and Charley being at the game yelling about Lopes. They better not cut him off early...

Mathguy64 said:

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I am not cosplaying GM for this club like some HOF player is, but if I were, I would have left Loperfido up and sent Mr "I dont know what the **** I'm doing in RF" Barrosa off to the Greyhound station with a prepaid ticket to anywhere in the US he wanted to go.

Just sayin'.

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The player personnel decisions that management makes are mind boggling and extremely questionable to say the least.

superaggie73 said:

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txags92 said:

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If several RHH in a row hadn't just hit the RHP, it would make sense to PH Cam. But everybody but Walker was hitting him (Walker doesn't hit anybody these days, so that is not predictive). It made no sense to make a mostly neutral move that took out your best defensive OF and one of your better slugging bats, just to play lefty righty games.

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Not to mention, Walker was Hoffman's 3rd batter. If you wanted Wade to PH, you let him PH for Walker and not Cam. Doing that guarantees he faces a righty since Hoffman hadn't hit his 3 batter minimum yet. Also, Wade is your lone other 1B so he can fill right in that position. You also don't burn 3 players at once and you keep a better defensive OF. It's not rocket science but Joe makes it seem like it is.

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After watching Joe's in game managerial decisions this season it makes me wonder if he's capable of making quick decisions in key and critical points in the game. And does Omar Lopez have any say so? Probably not since most of the decisions Joe makes seem to backfire, i.e. pinch runner and pinch hitters, bullpen pitcher decisions besides Abreu and Hader, defensive changes, choosing to pitch to the AL home run leader (Caminero) in a tie game with a base open in the bottom of the ninth, etc.

Mathguy64 said:

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Ok. I can't let this go. This was an idiotic multiple player switch that burned 2 players and it didn't need to happen.

Great. Joe is hyper focused on L/R and he can't stop it. We get it.

But he HAS to be looking bigger picture of who plays where when the AB is over. He totally committed himself to the worst OF rotation he could possibly have made and quite possibly the worst Of rotation in history with Barrosa and Velazquez at the corners.

And that DIRECtLY led to the ****ing nitwit throwing the ball to god knows who and it rolling through the infield to score extra runs. It was literally little league stuff where the kid who can't play is stuck in RF to hide him and of course a ball gets hit to him where the Benny Hill music starts. He grabs it and with some insane throwing motion lobs it like a grenade goes who knows where.

That was Joes real mistake. He was just flinging poo at the batting matchup and had not a clue where the poo was going to land. And it landed in RF.

10 more games of this managerial disaster. 10 more.

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I don't think Joe is capable of looking at the bigger picture.
In all of my 64 years following Astros baseball I have always enjoyed playing couch manager and predicting what the next move should be made by the manager, especially in the late innings. I would always get a kick out of it when the manager would do exactly what I would have done.
Joe always does exactly opposite of what I would do. Makes me so damn frustrated lol:

Lose a challenge on a 3-0 count to the first batter

4-pitch lead off walk.

Why should we expect anything less?

8 straight balls

Clown show.

This is ****ing awful

What a start

Free runner scores. Naturally.

One ball hit to 2B in the inning. One ball put in play scores a run. It's just mind numbing and it happens game after game after game.

And now we are making a pitching change 2 outs into a game.

This thread is great because I can wait 5 minutes after the game starts and I know whether or not to turn it on

So what was the plan here anyways?

Why was Ullola starting?

Why make a change?

I don't understand the idea of going with an opener if you're not gonna let him finish the inning even after a DP ball.

Ag_07 said:

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So what was the plan here anyways?

Why was Ullola starting?

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Opener for Pecko.

1 run. Wow

superaggie73 said:

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I don't understand the idea of going with an opener if you're not gonna let him finish the inning even after a DP ball.

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Because Joe does L/R with everything he does in life.

3 free passes and only one run. Do we count that as a "win"?

Yeah I don't get the change there. Just a waste of a pitcher

Pena is blazing hot

Mathguy64 said:

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superaggie73 said:

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I don't understand the idea of going with an opener if you're not gonna let him finish the inning even after a DP ball.

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Because Joe does L/R with everything he does in life.

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Ah, it's a Joe only thing…got it. Makes sense because I always thought the reason for an opener is to not let the main pitcher see the top of the lineup 3 times. Joe just thinks it's to face the righties…even though Pecko is also a righty.

Whatever's gotten into Pena of late should get into everyone else too.

JP has been on fire since he dropped that pop-up that cost the team 4 runs.

mwm said:

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JP has been on fire since he dropped that pop-up that cost the team 4 runs.

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Almost like Boras got to him and told him he was costing himself a hundred million dollars and a shot out of Houston.

houag78 said:

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2) Astros announce the day after season ends that Yordan is having surgery (on the hand?)

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Do you even "Astro med staff" bro?

They'll announce he's injured and seeing a specialist. Then they'll announce he's choosing rest and rehab and surgery is not required. Then sometime in March, he'll be swinging the bat and probable for the opener (baseball in 2027 yeah right!). Then the day before the opener strike, they'll announce that it's not a setback but he will need surgery and will miss all of the '27 season.

Varsho bomb!

Welcome to The Varshow

RED AG 98 said:

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houag78 said:

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2) Astros announce the day after season ends that Yordan is having surgery (on the hand?)

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Do you even "Astro med staff" bro?

They'll announce he's injured and seeing a specialist. Then they'll announce he's choosing rest and rehab and surjery is not required. Then sometime in March, he'll be swinging the bat and probable for the opener (baseball in 2027 yeah right!). Then the day before the opener strike, they'll announce that it's not a setback but he will need surgery and will miss all of the '27 season.

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Are you from the future?