I would definitely do Framber and Chas for Casas.
***** Official Houston Astros 2024-2025 Offseason Thread *****
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Last: 5 hrs ago by Bioish
Max Fried nearing decision with Yankees, Red Sox, Blue Jays among teams in mix: https://t.co/SCDo4KHEne
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) December 10, 2024
kudos to the folks on the 2024 season thread...that were wondering what in the world was taking so long for his returntexasaggie2015 said:
There's concerns about Tucker and how he'll respond to a big contract. The team wasn't impressed with how he handled his rehab last year apparently
I hate to gloat...but "here".W said:kudos to the folks on the 2024 season thread...that were wondering what in the world was taking so long for his returntexasaggie2015 said:
There's concerns about Tucker and how he'll respond to a big contract. The team wasn't impressed with how he handled his rehab last year apparently
Right or wrong, his lollygagging reputation didnt help him here.
Also "here"
Astros need to be smart. Tucker's value to them is exceptionally high right now. After next season it's zero. Be smart. Make the move.
Astros need to be smart. Tucker's value to them is exceptionally high right now. After next season it's zero. Be smart. Make the move.
Padres were better after dealing Soto this year.Beat40 said:
Honest question here: what is the last team to do a soft rebuild and it work out for a decent amount of time?
I've been struggling with the concept of trading Framber and/or Tucker. But the more I read this thread the more I am warming to it.
Based on the hall talk around the level of interest in tucker from other teams, I think he is the one to move if the right deal comes along. Keeping Framber at minimum helps us bridge next seasons rotation until our sidelined starters can return to full health.
Hate to think about the window closing and saying goodbye to either, but it may very well be the best approach to minimize the time to rebuild.
Based on the hall talk around the level of interest in tucker from other teams, I think he is the one to move if the right deal comes along. Keeping Framber at minimum helps us bridge next seasons rotation until our sidelined starters can return to full health.
Hate to think about the window closing and saying goodbye to either, but it may very well be the best approach to minimize the time to rebuild.
The Padres got some major league pieces that really worked out for them in a position of need, and that trade paved the way for them to be able to get Cease who was a huge addition to them.MaxPower said:Padres were better after dealing Soto this year.Beat40 said:
Honest question here: what is the last team to do a soft rebuild and it work out for a decent amount of time?
They also "replaced" Soto in the OF with Jackson Merrill, who played at an Elite level (granted not at Soto's level).
If we can trade a Framber for major league pieces that help us out in significant areas of need, I'd be ok with it because we have enough starting pitching. Unfortunately, we don't seem to have elite minor league talent to help fill the gap any trade would cause either.
MaxPower said:Padres were better after dealing Soto this year.Beat40 said:
Honest question here: what is the last team to do a soft rebuild and it work out for a decent amount of time?
The Padres had a massive clubhouse issue two years ago. Bob Melvin said as much and said he tried everything he could and nothing changed. He didn't say exactly what it was but he said it was as bad as he had ever experienced.
I imagine the dying owner going "all out" to try and win before he passed away, and then the team not being successful on the field at all created a huge amount of pressure and anxiety on everyone involved. Recipe for disaster in the clubhouse, and baseball is not the sport to do well when you add tons of pressure to your team.Mathguy64 said:MaxPower said:Padres were better after dealing Soto this year.Beat40 said:
Honest question here: what is the last team to do a soft rebuild and it work out for a decent amount of time?
The Padres had a massive clubhouse issue two years ago. Bob Melvin said as much and said he tried everything he could and nothing changed. He didn't say exactly what it was but he said it was as bad as he had ever experienced.
Sean Casey predicts the Astros will get Alonso, for whatever that's worth.
Wabs said:
Sean Casey predicts the Astros will get Alonso, for whatever that's worth.
I prefer to take my front office advice from guys who didn't get thrown out at first base on a line drive to left field.
EastCoastAgNc said:Wabs said:
Sean Casey predicts the Astros will get Alonso, for whatever that's worth.
I prefer to take my front office advice from guys who didn't get thrown out at first base on a line drive to left field.
Instead you'll get it from a guy who wished he could throw it that far.
I'm all for trading Tucker. I'd listen on Framber as well. What kind of pieces can we pull and from who?
Hell, the Rays are a perennial playoff team and they are in constant rebuild. Not saying go to that level, but we have some solid trade bait and now is the time to use them if it makes sense.
Hell, the Rays are a perennial playoff team and they are in constant rebuild. Not saying go to that level, but we have some solid trade bait and now is the time to use them if it makes sense.
On the podcast, https://t.co/LYkYRSIKdS @Alden_Gonzalez says the choice for the Astros is stark: either you keep Alex Bregman, or Kyle Tucker. pic.twitter.com/Ee3qHe9L1m
— Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) December 10, 2024
I don't think it is an either/or situation.
I think we are utterly priced out on Tucker already and his departure is simply a matter of time.
Bregman MAY be priced out compared to what we are willing to do, but it is close enough to remain engaged.
If it were as simple as the tweet indicates, keeping Tucker is the no-brainer as he is the better, more valuable player. But there is no way the Astros are offered Tucker 400-500M+ over 10+ years, and Soto has reset the entire top-end market.
The main reason I like the idea of seeing what offers we get for him now is that some GMs had already allowed themselves to get to ludicrous offers for Soto. The losers may feel motivated to overpay more in the wake of that than they will at a later time, as Tucker would immediately be the best player on the market.
I think we are utterly priced out on Tucker already and his departure is simply a matter of time.
Bregman MAY be priced out compared to what we are willing to do, but it is close enough to remain engaged.
If it were as simple as the tweet indicates, keeping Tucker is the no-brainer as he is the better, more valuable player. But there is no way the Astros are offered Tucker 400-500M+ over 10+ years, and Soto has reset the entire top-end market.
The main reason I like the idea of seeing what offers we get for him now is that some GMs had already allowed themselves to get to ludicrous offers for Soto. The losers may feel motivated to overpay more in the wake of that than they will at a later time, as Tucker would immediately be the best player on the market.
I dunno, does Bregman think this team is committed to winning if you trade Tucker? Seems more likely they trade Tucker if they can't sign Bregman.
As for Framber, I say he is less likely to be traded simply because you might be able to extend him. Tucker is so far out of our comfort zone it's not even a question that he's gone.
I do agree with farmer though, you are trading for big league players or prospects who have gotten a taste. The Phillies seem most palatable. You can get Bohm to plug into 3B, dump Pressly for Kerkering and nab a few prospects. Similar situation for Suzuki from the Cubs, though it seems clear 3B is more problematic than OF. Matt Shaw's stock has likely dropped a bit but he still is the type of batter we covet so he might be an option.
Braves might be a dark horse if you can get Ozuna as a plug for a year plus a few prospects. The Braves need to open up DH for brokedown Acuna so you may get a premium. Is Ozuna a big drop if you are just talking 2025?
As for Framber, I say he is less likely to be traded simply because you might be able to extend him. Tucker is so far out of our comfort zone it's not even a question that he's gone.
I do agree with farmer though, you are trading for big league players or prospects who have gotten a taste. The Phillies seem most palatable. You can get Bohm to plug into 3B, dump Pressly for Kerkering and nab a few prospects. Similar situation for Suzuki from the Cubs, though it seems clear 3B is more problematic than OF. Matt Shaw's stock has likely dropped a bit but he still is the type of batter we covet so he might be an option.
Braves might be a dark horse if you can get Ozuna as a plug for a year plus a few prospects. The Braves need to open up DH for brokedown Acuna so you may get a premium. Is Ozuna a big drop if you are just talking 2025?
Jorge Polanco came to the Winter Meetings and met with at least the Astros and Jays. He’s working out in Dallas and completely healthy for the first time in a few years.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) December 10, 2024
It's okay to get low risk guys who might have upside.
How about keeping neither Breggy nor Tucker? Looking more and more like we won't be able to match offers for Bregman without way overpaying him. Don't want to do that.
We need get what we can for Tucker. His value is extremely high right now. It would really, really suck to lose him after the year and get nothing. And I really don't see Crane paying 400-500M that someone else will offer.
We need get what we can for Tucker. His value is extremely high right now. It would really, really suck to lose him after the year and get nothing. And I really don't see Crane paying 400-500M that someone else will offer.
Astros need to think about extending the competitive window to match Yordan's contract.
Signing Bregman to a 7 year deal is too much. we should be aiming to rebuild after 2028 and don't need to be paying big money to washed up Bregman in 2029-2031.
Tucker should be good for a long while, including those 2029-2031 years. maybe even the 2032-2034 years that he'll be contracted for. Astros aren't going to be the team to give him 10-years, $500M though.
Not sure if the Astros would be willing to pay close to market rate on Framber, but you likely run into the same issue as Bregman and owe him a ton still after 2028.
I would like to see Crane give Dana the go ahead to let Bregman walk and trade Tucker and Framber separately for packages of more controllable big-leaguers plus some prospects. Get guys that fill weaknesses.
Use the money you'd consider giving to Bregman to some good-great free agents who are looking for 3-5 year deals. Christian Walker types.
Additionally, we have too much committed to the bullpen as our roster is currently constructed. Swapping Pressley for a similar caliber/contracted big leaguer would make us stronger as well.
Signing Bregman to a 7 year deal is too much. we should be aiming to rebuild after 2028 and don't need to be paying big money to washed up Bregman in 2029-2031.
Tucker should be good for a long while, including those 2029-2031 years. maybe even the 2032-2034 years that he'll be contracted for. Astros aren't going to be the team to give him 10-years, $500M though.
Not sure if the Astros would be willing to pay close to market rate on Framber, but you likely run into the same issue as Bregman and owe him a ton still after 2028.
I would like to see Crane give Dana the go ahead to let Bregman walk and trade Tucker and Framber separately for packages of more controllable big-leaguers plus some prospects. Get guys that fill weaknesses.
Use the money you'd consider giving to Bregman to some good-great free agents who are looking for 3-5 year deals. Christian Walker types.
Additionally, we have too much committed to the bullpen as our roster is currently constructed. Swapping Pressley for a similar caliber/contracted big leaguer would make us stronger as well.
If done effectively, these trades should hurt us a bit for next year but make us better positioned in 2026, 2027, and 2028.tylhair said:
Astros need to think about extending the competitive window to match Yordan's contract.
Signing Bregman to a 7 year deal is too much. we should be aiming to rebuild after 2028 and don't need to be paying big money to washed up Bregman in 2029-2031.
Tucker should be good for a long while, including those 2029-2031 years. maybe even the 2032-2034 years that he'll be contracted for. Astros aren't going to be the team to give him 10-years, $500M though.
Not sure if the Astros would be willing to pay close to market rate on Framber, but you likely run into the same issue as Bregman and owe him a ton still after 2028.
I would like to see Crane give Dana the go ahead to let Bregman walk and trade Tucker and Framber separately for packages of more controllable big-leaguers plus some prospects. Get guys that fill weaknesses.
Use the money you'd consider giving to Bregman to some good-great free agents who are looking for 3-5 year deals. Christian Walker types.
Additionally, we have too much committed to the bullpen as our roster is currently constructed. Swapping Pressley for a similar caliber/contracted big leaguer would make us stronger as well.
If done very effectively, these trades could lead to a better constructed roster for 2025 as well.
Not sure if Crane/Dana have it in them.
As a team that is not willing to spend like the Mets/Dodgers, for us to be a superteam requires having a bunch of star caliber players on rookie deals supplemented with key veterans. We had that for the 2017-2020 window. As we started losing Springer, Correa, etc., we offset that by the ascendancy of Alvarez and Tucker. Now our superteam window is closed and we are in a contender window.
I agree with Brown that we are a playoff caliber team with/without Bregman/Tucker/Framber depending on returns. It may affect your total team strength, but you are not a superteam with them, and I think you are still a playoff team without some, perhaps even all, of them.
In contender mode, you play to maximum chances by not going all-in on one season and play as many hands of playoff baseball as possible. If you strike gold within a given season, you can make strong moves at the trade deadline.
To me, keeping all of these expiring contracts is something to do if you are in all-in mode this year, which seems imprudent to me given that we are not a top dog even with them. Trading one or more players for younger controllable talent refreshes the model, and you hope at least one player acquired in return reaches star status.
Altuve is your cornerstone, and Alvarez is a superstar on a deal that is great for the team. You have a lot of young pitching. Ride that and reinforce the roster with young controllable players. The QO return picks are not as lucrative as they used to be, so letting Tucker and Framber walk for measly draft compensation is a poor return, IMO.
I agree with Brown that we are a playoff caliber team with/without Bregman/Tucker/Framber depending on returns. It may affect your total team strength, but you are not a superteam with them, and I think you are still a playoff team without some, perhaps even all, of them.
In contender mode, you play to maximum chances by not going all-in on one season and play as many hands of playoff baseball as possible. If you strike gold within a given season, you can make strong moves at the trade deadline.
To me, keeping all of these expiring contracts is something to do if you are in all-in mode this year, which seems imprudent to me given that we are not a top dog even with them. Trading one or more players for younger controllable talent refreshes the model, and you hope at least one player acquired in return reaches star status.
Altuve is your cornerstone, and Alvarez is a superstar on a deal that is great for the team. You have a lot of young pitching. Ride that and reinforce the roster with young controllable players. The QO return picks are not as lucrative as they used to be, so letting Tucker and Framber walk for measly draft compensation is a poor return, IMO.
Sorry for the triple post.
Re-signing Bregman and standing pat with Tucker and Framber would reek of selling out the future for a chance in 2025 while also handcuffing us to the luxury tax. It would be quite difficult to improve on the 2024 roster that has already lost Kikuchi and Verlander.
Re-signing Bregman and standing pat with Tucker and Framber would reek of selling out the future for a chance in 2025 while also handcuffing us to the luxury tax. It would be quite difficult to improve on the 2024 roster that has already lost Kikuchi and Verlander.
imagine taking the $650m it will take to sign Bregman, Tucker and Framber and putting that into your farm system and international scouting
Would you give Tucker 6/200? I'm not saying he would take it, but that would give Houston some prime years and him a chance to get another contract at 33
I also don't remember what extension offers he already rejected
I also don't remember what extension offers he already rejected
.redline248 said:
Would you give Tucker 6/200? I'm not saying he would take it, but that would give Houston some prime years and him a chance to get another contract at 33
I also don't remember what extension offers he already rejected
I'd absolutely give that to him, but he'd laugh in our face at that.
Other teams get creative with opt outs and deferred money… could we not do that?
That's not really how it works.
why not?Ag_07 said:
That's not really how it works.
Well first of all you still have to draft players for the farm system. You can't just buy players for the farm.
There's also limits on how much you can spend on both draft picks and international players.
Unless I'm missing something the draft and international signings are two areas you can't just throw money at.
There's also limits on how much you can spend on both draft picks and international players.
Unless I'm missing something the draft and international signings are two areas you can't just throw money at.
Fried to nyy 8/218
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.
MAGA
MAGA
Mr.Bond said:
Fried to nyy 8/218
That should set the rough bar for Framber.
I get Soto may be an extreme player in terms of skills and one of the few players who may be worth his contract but it's so massive it's resetting the field. The cost of playing poker just went up for anyone wanting to sit at the table.
the Astros could sign (and overpay) Framber...
and make the starting rotation the strength of the team for the next 5 years
and make the starting rotation the strength of the team for the next 5 years
How good have the Sox been since making the smart move to trade Mookie?
Baseball owners and executives aren't exactly strategic geniuses. If you are banking on them moving on from three superstars and then making 15 smart moves in a row to rebuild, you are going to be disappointed.
It's great the window has stayed open this long, but the 2019 team was the peak and it's gotten a little worse every year since .
Baseball owners and executives aren't exactly strategic geniuses. If you are banking on them moving on from three superstars and then making 15 smart moves in a row to rebuild, you are going to be disappointed.
It's great the window has stayed open this long, but the 2019 team was the peak and it's gotten a little worse every year since .
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