redline248 said:

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Quote:

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when he felt he had to produce just to play

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Chandler still taking shots at Dusty

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Good.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Wabs said:

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Altuve
Tucker
Bregman
Yordan
Diaz
Pena

but I've always been a fan of Tucker batting 2nd...

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Bregs is hot, but he's proven time and again he's not a 3-hole hitter. Don't mess with what's working, especially in the height of it working.

I agree with the guy above. Tucker 5th and move them around if some start to cool off.

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There is no magic about where you hit in the order. Bregman's highest OPS lineup spot is 7th (.956). Should we move him down in the order? He's batted everywhere from 1st to 9th in his career. His OPS ranges from .815 to .956. He's excelled everywhere because he's a good player.

Booma94 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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I would have called myself crazy for saying this a few months ago, but I'd put Tucker 5th. The top 4 are going too good right now to mess with them, and Alvarez 2nd clearly failed in the start of the year.

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This is defintely a point to keep in mind...

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We have very different definitions of failure.

2024

2 Hole
.449 xwOBA
93.2 EV
18 LA
48.1 HH%
12.4 Barrel%
12.4% K%

3 Hole
.400 xwOBA
92.9 EV
19 LA
48.0 HH%
10.2 Barrel%
16.4% K%

Altuve - 2B
Tucker - RF
Bregman - 3B
Alvarez - LF
Diaz - DH
Pena - SS
Caratini - C
Meyers - CF
Dezenzo - 1B

That's my lineup

Even with bregman on a hot streak, I feel his GIDP potential is too high to have him at 3. Feels like altuve and Tucker could set the stage at the top of then lineup, and then you would want Yordan up.

Astros go for 8th win in a row:

Altuve 2B
Bregman 3B
Alvarez DH
Y. Diaz, C
Peña SS
Dezenzo 1B
Meyers CF
Dubón RF
McCormick LF

RHP Blanco

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) August 14, 2024

I guess Dezenzo isn't ready for a shot in LF....

More McCorm-ick….

n_touch said:

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Quote:

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In general there is a lot of luck and variance in situational hitting, but coaches say Yainer Diaz really has refined his approach and minimized big moments better than he did last season, when he felt he had to produce just to play

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Amazing what happens when you get more at bats

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Really, the money shot from that piece and what consistently rears its head is not having that approach with RISP or like last night in the top of the 8th when we had the bases loaded with 1 out and needing insurance runs. Then, there was a game that I believe we lost last week where we had the bases loaded twice in the game with less than 2 outs and left all the runners stranded each time.

This is the antithesis of that:
In response, Diaz is determined to stay in the middle of the field and allow breaking pitches to get deeper before swinging. Staying inside of the fastballs he sees prevents Diaz from becoming too pull-happy. It sacrifices some power Diaz has just 12 home runs after hitting 23 last season but allows him to be a more complete hitter.

Ag_07 said:

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Because you're using expected numbers and Statcast batted ball data that don't really count for anything.

What do his actual production numbers look like?

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You're right. How you hit the ball and how often you strike out don't matter.

TarponChaser said:

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n_touch said:

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Quote:

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In general there is a lot of luck and variance in situational hitting, but coaches say Yainer Diaz really has refined his approach and minimized big moments better than he did last season, when he felt he had to produce just to play

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Amazing what happens when you get more at bats

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Really, the money shot from that piece and what consistently rears its head is not having that approach with RISP or like last night in the top of the 8th when we had the bases loaded with 1 out and needing insurance runs. Then, there was a game that I believe we lost last week where we had the bases loaded twice in the game with less than 2 outs and left all the runners stranded each time.

This is the antithesis of that:
In response, Diaz is determined to stay in the middle of the field and allow breaking pitches to get deeper before swinging. Staying inside of the fastballs he sees prevents Diaz from becoming too pull-happy. It sacrifices some power Diaz has just 12 home runs after hitting 23 last season but allows him to be a more complete hitter.

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I believe Meyers came up to bat in both of those situations with 1 out and struck out both times.

AggiEE said:

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More McCorm-ick….

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Why exclude Dubon, who has more PA, recently, and is as bad - if not worse?

Farmer1906 said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Wabs said:

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Altuve
Tucker
Bregman
Yordan
Diaz
Pena

but I've always been a fan of Tucker batting 2nd...

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Bregs is hot, but he's proven time and again he's not a 3-hole hitter. Don't mess with what's working, especially in the height of it working.

I agree with the guy above. Tucker 5th and move them around if some start to cool off.

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There is no magic about where you hit in the order. Bregman's highest OPS lineup spot is 7th (.956). Should we move him down in the order? He's batted everywhere from 1st to 9th in his career. His OPS ranges from .815 to .956. He's excelled everywhere because he's a good player.

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Most of the season? Yes. Right now? Leave him at 2 until it stops working.

There might not be magic, but career result show 3 is NOT his place, because he changes his approach away from waiting on the right pitch to trying to force the action. AND with Tucker healthy, Bregman is the perfect setup man to get to the meat of the order.

tjack16 said:

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redline248 said:

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AggiEE said:

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More McCorm-ick….

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Why exclude Dubon, who has more PA, recently, and is as bad - if not worse?

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At least dubon started the season well. At one point you could argue he was our best bat with RISP. Chas has sucked the whole season

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Which makes it all the more inexplicable why Chas hasn't been either sent down or given an extended stay on the bench until he figures out how to not swing at everything thrown within 2 feet of the plate. Continuing to send him up there night after night isn't accomplishing anything. He needs to find a slumpbuster or something...

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Wabs said:

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Altuve
Tucker
Bregman
Yordan
Diaz
Pena

but I've always been a fan of Tucker batting 2nd...

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Bregs is hot, but he's proven time and again he's not a 3-hole hitter. Don't mess with what's working, especially in the height of it working.

I agree with the guy above. Tucker 5th and move them around if some start to cool off.

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There is no magic about where you hit in the order. Bregman's highest OPS lineup spot is 7th (.956). Should we move him down in the order? He's batted everywhere from 1st to 9th in his career. His OPS ranges from .815 to .956. He's excelled everywhere because he's a good player.

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Most of the season? Yes. Right now? Leave him at 2 until it stops working.

There might not be magic, but career result show 3 is NOT his place, because he changes his approach away from waiting on the right pitch to trying to force the action.

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So an OPS in the 800s is not good?

yeesh, that outfield is dreadful

5 years ago...Springer, Brantley, and Reddick were the starting outfielders

with dashes of Yordan and Marisnick thrown in

Royals (66-55) salvage the finale vs. the Twins (67-53)

Astros-White Sox probables:
Fri: RHP Spencer Arrighetti vs. LHP Garrett Crochet
Sat: RHP Hunter Brown vs. RHP Chris Flexen
Sun: LHP Framber Valdez vs. LHP Ky Bush

— Matt Kawahara (@matthewkawahara) August 14, 2024

Kyle Tucker played some catch on the field today & Espada said he hit inside & "did a ton of work in the weight room."

He added: "Slow progress, but he's trending in the right direction."

Tucker, through a team spokesman, has declined interview requests all three days in Tampa.

— Brian McTaggart (@brianmctaggart) August 14, 2024

Farmer1906 said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Wabs said:

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Altuve
Tucker
Bregman
Yordan
Diaz
Pena

but I've always been a fan of Tucker batting 2nd...

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Bregs is hot, but he's proven time and again he's not a 3-hole hitter. Don't mess with what's working, especially in the height of it working.

I agree with the guy above. Tucker 5th and move them around if some start to cool off.

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There is no magic about where you hit in the order. Bregman's highest OPS lineup spot is 7th (.956). Should we move him down in the order? He's batted everywhere from 1st to 9th in his career. His OPS ranges from .815 to .956. He's excelled everywhere because he's a good player.

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Most of the season? Yes. Right now? Leave him at 2 until it stops working.

There might not be magic, but career result show 3 is NOT his place, because he changes his approach away from waiting on the right pitch to trying to force the action.

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So an OPS in the 800s is not good?

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Batting 3rd probably doesn't have enough data, but the limited time wasn't good. And batting 4th was abysmal. Though it would be interesting to see if he had enough at bats at each, with each spot in the order split between first two months and rest of the season. Because he pretty much sucks no matter where he bats in April and May. But I still think it has more to do with his approach. He has protecting in front and behind when batting 2nd. Later than that, and his approach changes to trying to force RBI's instead of waiting on the right pitch.



Edit: Wrong screenshot. Dont think yall care about SLV trading here lol

tjack16 said:

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redline248 said:

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AggiEE said:

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More McCorm-ick….

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Why exclude Dubon, who has more PA, recently, and is as bad - if not worse?

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At least dubon started the season well. At one point you could argue he was our best bat with RISP. Chas has sucked the whole season

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Ok. What have you done for me lately?

.252 BA
.366 OBP
.450 SLG

Career in the 3 hole over 1200 PA.

Farmer1906 said:

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.252 BA
.366 OBP
.450 SLG

Career in the 3 hole over 1200 PA.

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And what years did most of those at bats come in? What was the makeup of the rest of the order? What was his overall production in those years?

I don't really want a guy who gets on base a lot with a mediocre average in the meat of our lineup when we have Yordan and Tucker available who make harder contact at a better clip and dont ground into as many DP's.

txags92 said:

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tjack16 said:

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redline248 said:

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AggiEE said:

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More McCorm-ick….

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Why exclude Dubon, who has more PA, recently, and is as bad - if not worse?

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At least dubon started the season well. At one point you could argue he was our best bat with RISP. Chas has sucked the whole season

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Which makes it all the more inexplicable why Chas hasn't been either sent down or given an extended stay on the bench until he figures out how to not swing at everything thrown within 2 feet of the plate. Continuing to send him up there night after night isn't accomplishing anything. He needs to find a slumpbuster or something...

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Chas-san you sad?

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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.252 BA
.366 OBP
.450 SLG

Career in the 3 hole over 1200 PA.

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And what years did most of those at bats come in? What was the makeup of the rest of the order? What was his overall production in those years?

I don't really want a guy who gets on base a lot with a mediocre average in the meat of our lineup when we have Yordan and Tucker available who make harder contact at a better clip and dont ground into as many DP's.

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So he forgot how to hit in the 3-hole?

Nerds figured out the 2 hole is more important than the 3 hole. As well as the 4 hole too. You actually should prefer the on base guy there.

Farmer1906 said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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.252 BA
.366 OBP
.450 SLG

Career in the 3 hole over 1200 PA.

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And what years did most of those at bats come in? What was the makeup of the rest of the order? What was his overall production in those years?

I don't really want a guy who gets on base a lot with a mediocre average in the meat of our lineup when we have Yordan and Tucker available who make harder contact at a better clip and dont ground into as many DP's.

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So he forgot how to hit in the 3-hole?

Nerds figured out the 2 hole is more important than the 3 hole. As well as the 4 hole too. You actually should prefer the on base guy there.

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I do prefer him in the 2 hole. In fact, I argued that for the first two months despite most of this board favoring him in the meat spots. Your original question asked me if he should be 7. And if performs like he did early in the year, the answer was yes. If he performs like his standard career numbers and numbers from the last 3 months, he should be 2. Right now, he's killing it in 2 and should stay there unless he starts to become unproductive for multiple weeks or more. When Tucker comes back, I think you put him 5 if the top 4 in the lineup are still producing well. If Yainer starts to drift back to his stats from before he heated up, you move Tucker to 4.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Wabs said:

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Altuve
Tucker
Bregman
Yordan
Diaz
Pena

but I've always been a fan of Tucker batting 2nd...

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Bregs is hot, but he's proven time and again he's not a 3-hole hitter. Don't mess with what's working, especially in the height of it working.

I agree with the guy above. Tucker 5th and move them around if some start to cool off.

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The funny thing is, if you actually look at what position in the order Bergman has batted for the Astros, you'd find he's batted primarily in the 3rd or 4th positions. Last season is the only season he spent the majority of the year in the 2nd hole.

So it's funny to me when people say he isn't a 3- or 4-hole hitter when he's literally batted in that position every year since 2017 except for last year. And that's with the most data forward thinking organization in AJ Hinch and Jeff Lunhow.

Where he should bat this year is a different question, but it actually ridiculous to say he can't bat in the 3- or 4- hole. You'd have to ignorant of his career to say he can't do it.

Beat40 said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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Wabs said:

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Altuve
Tucker
Bregman
Yordan
Diaz
Pena

but I've always been a fan of Tucker batting 2nd...

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Bregs is hot, but he's proven time and again he's not a 3-hole hitter. Don't mess with what's working, especially in the height of it working.

I agree with the guy above. Tucker 5th and move them around if some start to cool off.

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The funny thing is, if you actually look at what position in the order Bergman has batted for the Astros, you'd find he's batted primarily in the 3rd or 4th positions. Last season is the only season he spent the majority of the year in the 2nd hole.

So it's funny to me when people say he isn't a 3- or 4-hole hitter when he's literally batted in that position every year since 2017 except for last year. And that's with the most data forward thinking organization in AJ Hinch and Jeff Lunhow.

Where he should bat this year is a different question, but it actually ridiculous to say he can't bat in the 3- or 4- hole. You'd have to ignorant of his career to say he can't do it.

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2023


2022


2021


You have to go back to 3 and 4 seasons ago to find him batting 3rd and 4th extensively. And he was pretty good those years. But current Bregman is a very productive 2 hole hitter and an awful 4 hole hitter. And my main argument about keeping him out of 3 is not that he would suck there, but that he'd be the third best option for the role where you want someone driving in runs. He's doing great where he is for the player that he is right now. Don't screw it up.