yes, Sheffield should not be getting in

Quote:

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Could it be Billy Wagner's year?

This year's Hall of Fame ballot has a pretty high number of divisive candidates. OK, let's be real: It's the Hall of Fame voting process; there are always divisive candidates. For me, Billy Wagner, now in his ninth year on the ballot, has been a conundrum for the better part of a decade.

First, the numbers. As Tyler Kepner points out in this profile, Wagner's 2.31 ERA is lower than every reliever in Cooperstown not named Mariano Rivera. But his 903 innings would be fewer than any of them.
The thing is, Wagner could have stuck around and padded those numbers. His final year 2010 with Atlanta saw him make his seventh All-Star game, and his 1.43 ERA in 71 games was the best of his career, not counting 1995 (when he faced and retired one batter). But as Wagner told Kepner, he was ready to go home and be with his family.

So is he a Hall of Famer? It didn't look like it when he hit the ballot for the first time in 2016 and he earned just 10.5 percent of the vote. Some of that might have been that the 10-player limit meant voters had to clear a backlog of other players first. But at time of writing, he's sitting at 79 percent on Ryan Thibodaux's vote tracker, with 152 ballots (42.2 percent of the expected total) accounted for. If he can manage 72.1 percent on the remaining ballots, he's in.

I think he should be in. He was the platonic ideal of the modern closer decades before it became the norm. From 1996 to 2010, only one pitcher had a higher K/9 than Wagner's 11.92 (min.100 innings) that would be Brad Lidge (12.00), who pitched 574 2/3 innings, more than 300 fewer than Wagner. His 82 percent strand rate on base runners is better than all but seven guys, none of whom pitched more than 255 innings.
He's not a first-ballot guy, but I think if he's a ninth-ballot guy, the voters will have made the right decision.

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https://theathletic.com/5206098/2024/01/16/blue-jays-yariel-rodriguez-yankees-stroman-giants-hicks-the-windup/


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Voting Update:

Public Ballots: 154
Anonymous/Unverifiable Ballots: 10

% of Ballots Known: 42.7%
Last Updated: 1/16/24 at 07:59 PST

Adrin Beltr 98.8%
Joe Mauer 82.9%
Todd Helton 82.9%
Billy Wagner 79.3%
Gary Sheffield 75.0%
--75%--
Andruw Jones 72.0%
Carlos Beltrn 66.5%
Chase Utley 44.5%
lex Rodrguez 40.2%

Wagner gained another one. +7 NET for returning voters and +9 for new voters.

Great piece on Wagner in The Athletic:

https://theathletic.com/5203380/2024/01/16/billy-wagner-baseball-hall-of-fame

random question...

how many Hall of Famers are there...that don't have their jerseys retired by a team?

(or probably won't have their jerseys retired by a team)

Wagner and Sheffield could join that group

Wagner probably should. But the early Astros were jersey retirement happy.

Has Harold Baines had his jersey retired by any club?

The Cubs didnt retire any jerseys until 10-15 years ago.
I think Santo is the only to have been retired BEFORE he got into the HOF but that was because he didn't get in until the veterans committee righted that terrible wrong.

I would think a lot of the old timers havent had clubs retire their numbers.....again with the Cubs - Hack Wilson, Gabby Hatnett, Tinkers, Evers, Chance and that era none of them are retired. I'd be kinda suprised if that ever happened at this point since no one living has any emotional ties to them.

Post WWII, probably not many have not been retired

the White Sox retired Baines' jersey number

the Rockies retired Larry Walker's number

however last year's 2 inductees...Rolen and McGriff are in no-man's land -- didn't play that long with any franchise

Mike Mussina and Vlad are tbd

Public Ballots: 163
Anonymous/Unverifiable Ballots: 11
% of Ballots Known: 45.3%

"Last Updated:
1/18/24 at 10:00 PST"

Adrin Beltr 98.9%
Joe Mauer 83.3%
Todd Helton 82.8%
Billy Wagner 79.9%
--75%--
Gary Sheffield 73.6%
Andruw Jones 71.8%
Carlos Beltrn 66.7%
Chase Utley 43.7%

Wagner lost a vote. +6 NET for returning votes yt gained a new voter's vote (+10). As long as he's on 71% of the remaining ballots, he's in.

Also, two chicks at the same time

Almost 50% known.

I think they announce on the 23rd so we should find out soon.

One positive in the last few years at least the no question HOFers are basically getting in with 98% of the vote. None of this Joe Dimaggio and Mickey Mantle getting 88% of the vote.

From a small town to the biggest stage, Billy Wagner's baseball story is one of determination and dominance.

🎙️ Craig Biggio
🖊️ @jonmorosi pic.twitter.com/DKf71Wieiy

— MLB Network (@MLBNetwork) January 23, 2024

The announcement is tonight at 5 o clock.

Here is where things stand via the tracker.

Wagner has flipped 10 voters, gained 12 new voter's vote, and lost 3 voters. Thats a NET of 19 new votes known. He's going to need to have flipped the non public vote at a similar clip.

It's gunna be close.

The Porkchop Express said:

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Is anyone else confused that Adrian Beltre who failed to hit 500 home runs and batted .286 for his career with 0 MVP wins is getting 99% of the vote?

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Well over 3k hits & 3rd all time in WAR for 3B (elite defense helped this a ton)

Long career and compiled some numbers. The over 1700 RBI is crazy. More than Frank Thomas, Reggie Jackson, Jim Thome, Sosa, Chipper, Brett, Schmidt, McCovey, B****, Mantle, and a ton of great names.

I just wonder why he never had any suspension around his name. He had a very strange career split.

Age 19-30
1681 games, 906 RBI, 250 HR, .779 OPS
0 AS
1 SS

Age 31-39
1252 games, 801 RBI, 227 HR, .872 OPS
4 AS
3 SS

Those should be reversed. The guys who have such a strong 30s are juicers normally.

It's crazy he got to 3,166 hits with only one season of 200+ and that was exactly 200.

the problem with Beltre's candidacy...

there were numerous times during his career...I forgot he was still in the league

had a very non-spectacular career

(and yes, got a free pass for the 2004 HR outburst)

W said:

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the problem with Beltre's candidacy...

there were numerous times during his career...I forgot he was still in the league

had a very non-spectacular career

(and yes, got a free pass for the 2004 HR outburst)

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Very strange

2001 - slightly below avg hitter
2002 - slightly below avg hitter
2003 - below avg hitter
2004 - MVP level hitter
2005 - slightly below avg hitter

The Porkchop Express said:

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Is anyone else confused that Adrian Beltre who failed to hit 500 home runs and batted .286 for his career with 0 MVP wins is getting 99% of the vote?

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Dale Murphy sure is

But the 3,000 hits is essentially and auto-qualifier

AgRyan04 said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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Is anyone else confused that Adrian Beltre who failed to hit 500 home runs and batted .286 for his career with 0 MVP wins is getting 99% of the vote?

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Dale Murphy sure is

But the 3,000 hits is essentially and auto-qualifier

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He won 2 MVPs

Looking back, what an incredible run he went on from 1982 to 1987.

.289 BA
.382 OBP
.531 SLG
.913 OPS
144 wRC+
218 HR
629 RBI
660 Runs
32.4 WAR

Murphy suffered a dramatic drop off, like end-of-career Willie Mays style.


He was at at 314 career home runs at age 31 and finished with 398. After the juiced ball '87 season, he never hit more than 24 in a season again.

This sent me down a rabbit hole. Who is the worst HOFer of the modern era?

Right now, I think the leader in the clubhouse is Bill Mazeroski. But I am still looking.

Edit: Luis Aparicio is in the running too. Woof.

Phil Rizzuto. Was a really good sacrifice bunter. That's it.

1,588 career hits, 38 HR, .706 OPS

Won the AL MVP in 1950 when hit hit .324.with 200 hits.

He probably could have finished 12th based on the other guy's stats.

The Porkchop Express said:

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Phil Rizzuto.

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I always think Seinfeld

Quote:

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Phil Rizzuto.

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He was the shortstop and one of the most popular players of the greatest dynasty of the Game's history. His offensive production was likely far better than most shortstops of his era and losing three full season to WWII is an easy way to dismiss his less than stellar counting numbers. It certainly didn't hurt that he was a very popular announcer and media personality for 40+ seasons.

Harold Baines is on line 1.