***Official Houston Astros 2023-24 Offseason Thread*** [Staff Warning - OP]

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PrestigeWorldwideAg12
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6:56p, 11/6/23
Has to be Hyde.
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All I do is Nguyen
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 6:58p, 11/6/23
I was Thinking Hyde
No matter what!
Epstein didn't do, you know, the thing...
I'm the rare Astros/Cowboys/Spurs fan. We do exist
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Farmer1906
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6:59p, 11/6/23
AG
Hey Bidge.

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Mathguy64
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In reply to tjack16 • 7:00p, 11/6/23
AG
tjack16 said:
Farmer1906 said:
He lit up the WAR calculation with good defense and base running.

A borderline top 15 offensive player in the AL doesn't really defense MVP consideration unless you steal 70 bases or play super elite defense at Catcher, Short Stop, or Center Field.

His wRC+ was below Chas & Yainer. Guys Dusty wasn't convince should start.

I'm with you. TED and a few others probably deserve it over him.


If it's 5 nominees I could see Semien.

I'd go Ohtani, Seager, Tucker, Semien and Rodriguez as my 5 nominees. With Luis Robert as my alternate


Regular season?

Rodriguez had an amazing white hot month and was pedestrian for the rest.

Seager was injured a decent amount.

As great as Ohtani is, he was injured at the end.

Yordan put up the best per capita numbers for me but he was injured 40% of the season. Judge had a really good per capita season and he was out a bunch too.

Ohtani will win but this feels like a Trout year. Lots of stats that didn't do squat for his team.
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JPN06
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 7:05p, 11/6/23
What do you mean when you say "per capita"? Aren't every player's numbers per capita?
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 7:07p, 11/6/23
AG
Mathguy64 said:
tjack16 said:
Farmer1906 said:
He lit up the WAR calculation with good defense and base running.

A borderline top 15 offensive player in the AL doesn't really defense MVP consideration unless you steal 70 bases or play super elite defense at Catcher, Short Stop, or Center Field.

His wRC+ was below Chas & Yainer. Guys Dusty wasn't convince should start.

I'm with you. TED and a few others probably deserve it over him.


If it's 5 nominees I could see Semien.

I'd go Ohtani, Seager, Tucker, Semien and Rodriguez as my 5 nominees. With Luis Robert as my alternate


Regular season?

Rodriguez had an amazing white hot month and was pedestrian for the rest.

Seager was injured a decent amount.

As great as Ohtani is, he was injured at the end.

Yordan put up the best per capita numbers for me but he was injured 40% of the season. Judge had a really good per capita season and he was out a bunch too.

Ohtani will win but this feels like a Trout year. Lots of stats that didn't do squat for his team.


I hate this argument. The dude hit better than Yordan, Judge or Seager then threw 23 games of low 3 ERA. This isn't basketball where one player can carry a bad team. He's playing both sides of the ball at an elite level.

Is he just not willing them enough? I think he's providing more value than any player in history.
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JPN06
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 7:13p, 11/6/23
MVP is really an MOP award and Ohtani is obviously the most outstanding player.

And who's to say he's not the most valuable? It's not "most valuable to a good team". I'm sure the Angels would have been a lot "more bad" without him than any other team losing any other player.
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Mathguy64
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In reply to JPN06 • 7:13p, 11/6/23
AG
Per game. Per AB.

Tucker put up 112 RBI and 29 HR in 157 games.

Yordan was 97/31 in 114 games. He was way more valuable to me. But he missed so many games he didn't get enough ABs to qualify
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Mathguy64
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 7:16p, 11/6/23
AG
Farmer1906 said:
Mathguy64 said:
tjack16 said:
Farmer1906 said:
He lit up the WAR calculation with good defense and base running.

A borderline top 15 offensive player in the AL doesn't really defense MVP consideration unless you steal 70 bases or play super elite defense at Catcher, Short Stop, or Center Field.

His wRC+ was below Chas & Yainer. Guys Dusty wasn't convince should start.

I'm with you. TED and a few others probably deserve it over him.


If it's 5 nominees I could see Semien.

I'd go Ohtani, Seager, Tucker, Semien and Rodriguez as my 5 nominees. With Luis Robert as my alternate


Regular season?

Rodriguez had an amazing white hot month and was pedestrian for the rest.

Seager was injured a decent amount.

As great as Ohtani is, he was injured at the end.

Yordan put up the best per capita numbers for me but he was injured 40% of the season. Judge had a really good per capita season and he was out a bunch too.

Ohtani will win but this feels like a Trout year. Lots of stats that didn't do squat for his team.


I hate this argument. The dude hit better than Yordan, Judge or Seager then threw 23 games of low 3 ERA. This isn't basketball where one player can carry a bad team. He's playing both sides of the ball at an elite level.

Is he just not willing them enough? I think he's providing more value than any player in history.


I knew when I typed that I would trigger you.

Yeah I get the argument. He's providing statistical value. And he had a great year. And he deserves to win it.

But like it or not he's on a crappy team and frankly they wouldn't be that much worse without him.
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JPN06
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 7:17p, 11/6/23
Got it.

I still Ohtani is the best both overall and then obviously per game.
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astros4545
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 7:20p, 11/6/23
AG
Farmer1906 said:
Hey Bidge.



Dumb stat

Biggio doesn't get his full career stats in there but everyone else does?
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JPN06
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 7:20p, 11/6/23
I think they'd be a lot worse without him. Bigger drop off than us without Yordan or Tucker. It would be like us losing Yordan AND Framber but worse because their backups are even worse than ours.

Terrible team studs have won a lot of MVPs, going all the way back to Andre Dawson and Cal Ripken.
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annie88
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7:20p, 11/6/23
AG
This is funny.

Currently a happy listless vessel and deplorable. #FDEMS TRUMP 2024.
Fight Fight Fight.
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tjack16
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7:20p, 11/6/23
AG
Yeah the "MVP" is really just the best overall player now. Has nothing to do with team performance
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JPN06
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In reply to tjack16 • 7:22p, 11/6/23
tjack16 said:
Yeah the "MVP" is really just the best overall player now. Has nothing to do with team performance
It always has been. Not just now.
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Mathguy64
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In reply to JPN06 • 7:31p, 11/6/23
AG
JPN06 said:
I think they'd be a lot worse without him. Bigger drop off than us without Yordan or Tucker. It would be like us losing Yordan AND Framber but worse because their backups are even worse than ours.

Terrible team studs have won a lot of MVPs, going all the way back to Andre Dawson and Cal Ripken.
They were 73-89 and -90 in runs. They have been bad for years. Take him off and they finish 65-97? 63-99? 62-100? And that's with Trout. What does it matter how much worse they get. They have what many keep saying are the two best players in one guy plus Trout and they are horrible.

And what you are seeing with Ohtani is the catch. If he's injured (TJ anyone?) you have to replace your arguably #1 starter and your DH. It's two roster spots with one guy. You either play a hitter light or a pitcher light. He's got a downside.
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EastCoastAgNc
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7:34p, 11/6/23
AG
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JPN06
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 7:37p, 11/6/23
But you agree he's the best player, right?
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Mathguy64
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In reply to JPN06 • 7:38p, 11/6/23
AG
JPN06 said:
But you agree he's the best player, right?
Yes. He's the best player.

I'm not sure he's the most valuable player.
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JPN06
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 7:40p, 11/6/23
Mathguy64 said:
JPN06 said:
But you agree he's the best player, right?
Yes. He's the best player.

I'm not sure he's the most valuable player.
Fair enough.

I guess I look at it like if he were on the Astros instead of Tucker we would have been several games better and I think you can make that statement with any other MVP candidate. So is Tucker "more valuable" just because he's on the Astros?
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Mathguy64
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In reply to JPN06 • 7:42p, 11/6/23
AG
JPN06 said:
Mathguy64 said:
JPN06 said:
But you agree he's the best player, right?
Yes. He's the best player.

I'm not sure he's the most valuable player.
Fair enough.

I guess I look at it like if he were on the Astros instead of Tucker we would have been several games better and I think you can make that statement with any other MVP candidate. So is Tucker "more valuable" just because he's on the Astros?
I think we beat the Rangers in 5 and win the WS if Tucker doesn't go into that black hole he went into.

Tucker is pretty valuable.
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tjack16
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In reply to JPN06 • 7:42p, 11/6/23
AG
JPN06 said:
Mathguy64 said:
JPN06 said:
But you agree he's the best player, right?
Yes. He's the best player.

I'm not sure he's the most valuable player.
Fair enough.

I guess I look at it like if he were on the Astros instead of Tucker we would have been several games better and I think you can make that statement with any other MVP candidate. So is Tucker "more valuable" just because he's on the Astros?


If Ohtani was on the Astros, we would have had a parade Saturday.
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In reply to astros4545 • 7:44p, 11/6/23
JPN06
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In reply to tjack16 • 7:44p, 11/6/23
tjack16 said:
JPN06 said:
Mathguy64 said:
JPN06 said:
But you agree he's the best player, right?
Yes. He's the best player.

I'm not sure he's the most valuable player.
Fair enough.

I guess I look at it like if he were on the Astros instead of Tucker we would have been several games better and I think you can make that statement with any other MVP candidate. So is Tucker "more valuable" just because he's on the Astros?


If Ohtani was on the Astros, we would have had a parade Saturday.
Absolutely.

And he would be overkill. It would have only taken Charlie Morton.
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JPN06
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In reply to Mathguy64 • 7:45p, 11/6/23
Mathguy64 said:
JPN06 said:
Mathguy64 said:
JPN06 said:
But you agree he's the best player, right?
Yes. He's the best player.

I'm not sure he's the most valuable player.
Fair enough.

I guess I look at it like if he were on the Astros instead of Tucker we would have been several games better and I think you can make that statement with any other MVP candidate. So is Tucker "more valuable" just because he's on the Astros?
I think we beat the Rangers in 5 and win the WS if Tucker doesn't go into that black hole he went into.

Tucker is pretty valuable.

He is extremely valuable. Probably top-five in the league. But nowhere in the league of Ohtani.
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Mathguy64
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In reply to [removed post] • 7:58p, 11/6/23
AG
Bregxit said:
astros4545 said:
Farmer1906 said:
Hey Bidge.



Dumb stat

Biggio doesn't get his full career stats in there but everyone else does?


Bidge moves to third on that list for his entire career at 4711. Chipper gets 3 more TB for 1993.
Altuve is at something like 3350. I had to eyeball his postseason TBs.
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Farmer1906
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8:03p, 11/6/23
AG
More FA predictions.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/11/2023-24-top-50-free-agents-with-predictions.html

1. Shohei Ohtani. Twelve years, $528MM

Tim Dierkes' prediction: Dodgers / Anthony Franco's prediction: Dodgers / Darragh McDonald's prediction: Dodgers


2. Cody Bellinger. Twelve years, $264MM

Tim: Yankees / Anthony: Giants / Darragh: Giants


3. Yoshinobu Yamamoto. Nine years, $225MM

Tim: Giants / Anthony: Yankees / Darragh: Yankees


4. Blake Snell. Seven years, $200MM

Tim: Phillies / Anthony: Red Sox / Darragh: Dodgers


5. Aaron Nola. Six years, $150MM

Tim: Cardinals/ Anthony: Cardinals / Darragh: Cardinals


6. Jordan Montgomery. Six years, $150MM

Tim: Rangers / Anthony: Mets / Darragh: Giants


7. Matt Chapman. Six years, $150MM

Tim: Giants / Anthony: Phillies / Darragh: Cubs


8. Josh Hader. Six years, $110MM

Tim: Rangers / Anthony: Rangers / Darragh: Rangers


9. Sonny Gray. Four years, $90MM

Tim: Braves / Anthony: Dodgers / Darragh: Tigers


10. Shota Imanaga. Five years, $85MM

Tim: Cubs / Anthony: Cubs / Darragh: Angels


11. Eduardo Rodriguez. Four years, $82MM

Tim: Red Sox / Anthony: Reds / Darragh: White Sox


12. Teoscar Hernandez. Four years, $80MM

Tim: Angels / Anthony: Angels / Darragh: White Sox


13. Jeimer Candelario. Four years, $70MM

Tim: Cubs / Anthony: Royals / Darragh: Blue Jays


14. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. Four years, $54MM

Tim: Royals / Anthony: Yankees / Darragh: Mariners


15. Jung Hoo Lee. Five years, $50MM

Tim: Padres / Anthony: Padres / Darragh: Blue Jays


16. Jorge Soler. Three years, $45MM

Tim: Blue Jays / Anthony: Astros / Darragh: Mets


17. Lucas Giolito. Two years, $44MM

Tim: Mets / Anthony: Orioles / Darragh: Mets


18. Marcus Stroman. Two years, $44MM

Tim: Dodgers / Anthony: Phillies / Darragh: Twins


19. Seth Lugo. Three years, $42MM

Tim: Diamondbacks / Anthony: Cardinals / Darragh: Reds


20. J.D. Martinez. Two years, $40MM

Tim: Mets / Anthony: Mariners / Darragh: Angels


21. Jordan Hicks. Four years, $40MM

Tim: Orioles / Anthony: Yankees / Darragh: Tigers


22. Jack Flaherty. Three years, $40MM

Tim: Royals / Anthony: Tigers / Darragh: Pirates


23. Mitch Garver. Three years, $39MM

Tim: Rangers / Anthony: Rangers / Darragh: Red Sox


24. Michael Wacha. Three years, $36MM

Tim: Reds / Anthony: Braves / Darragh: Reds


25. Kenta Maeda. Two years, $36MM

Tim: Mets / Anthony: Twins / Darragh: Orioles


26. Rhys Hoskins. Two years, $36MM

Tim: Twins / Anthony: Angels / Darragh: Phillies


27. Robert Stephenson. Four years, $36MM

Tim: Cardinals / Anthony: Mets / Darragh: Orioles


28. Yariel Rodriguez. Four years, $32MM

Tim: White Sox / Anthony: White Sox / Darragh: Padres


29. Reynaldo Lopez. Three years, $30MM

Tim: Mets / Anthony: Reds / Darragh: Twins


30. Mike Clevinger. Two years, $26MM

Tim: Angels / Anthony: Angels / Darragh: Red Sox

-

33. Aroldis Chapman. Two years, $24MM

Tim: Astros / Anthony: White Sox / Darragh: Angels

-

46. Hector Neris. Two years, $15MM

Tim: Reds / Anthony: Cardinals / Darragh: Twins

-
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Farmer1906
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 8:04p, 11/6/23
AG
A lot of those at the top feel way too high. The ones in the middle / bottom feel low. I'd do the Hicks & Neris deal right now. We have the best right handed bullpen ever.

Lol Chapman.

Soler would be fun. He's got so much pop. Don't think he's worth it tho.
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tjack16
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8:08p, 11/6/23
AG
6 years 110 for Hader?

Yeah I don't think we'd do that.
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Buck Compton
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In reply to tjack16 • 8:17p, 11/6/23
AG
tjack16 said:
6 years 110 for Hader?

Yeah I don't think we'd do that.
No ***** I hope the Rangers give him something like that.
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Mathguy64
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In reply to tjack16 • 8:18p, 11/6/23
AG
tjack16 said:
6 years 110 for Hader?

Yeah I don't think we'd do that.
Hader doesn't make sense to me from a differential standpoint. We have a a very very good closer in Pressly and a league best set up guy in Abreu.

Signing Hader costs a ton. So now you have a very very expensive set up guy in Pressly or a stupidly expensive set up guy in Hader? And how much better is your closer?

It makes sense for Texas because their pen sucks and they get a big piece they don't have.

For us it's a lot of money but not a big bump. Give me Hector as a 7th inning guy and a left handed version of Hector.
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n_touch
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In reply to Farmer1906 • 8:22p, 11/6/23
Quote:
33. Aroldis Chapman. Two years, $24MM

Tim: Astros / Anthony: White Sox / Darragh: Angels


I have an infinite list of VS models and Kate's friends that I have a better chance with than this happening.
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tjack16
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In reply to n_touch • 8:24p, 11/6/23
AG
n_touch said:
Quote:
33. Aroldis Chapman. Two years, $24MM

Tim: Astros / Anthony: White Sox / Darragh: Angels


I have an infinite list of VS models and Kate's friends that I have a better chance with than this happening.


I have a better chance of beating Steph Curry in a 3 point shootout
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Terminus Est
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8:27p, 11/6/23
Bellinger 12 year 264 million dollar contract? I get the Yankees are crazy and he just had a good season, but locking a dude up until he's 40 after having ONE bounce back year removed from being a complete black hole?
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Farmer1906
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8:30p, 11/6/23
AG
This one stood out as the most outlandish. I think they're about 100 M too high.
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