I don't understand why you'd want to send out one of our starters. One of the amazing benefits of having Ohtani is that you can have a 6 man rotation.

So your pitchers would pitch better since they are pitching every 6th or 7th day instead of every 5th or 6th day. In theory, the middle to back of the rotation guys would be more effective. In actuality, you save a lot of Eovaldi/Gray/Dunning innings so they will be more effective later in the year and in the playoffs.

It's a solid argument from an Ohtani perspective, because I think an extra day for him would be something to seriously consider as his workload is super high rn, but most starters and especially veteran starters hate a 6 man rotation. They like getting the ball every fifth day out of habit and consistency.

Dwb22 said:

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TLDR: based on recent deals, Acuna + White + Saggesse + Chase Lee seems like a decent starting place for an Ohtani rental.

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If they'd accept, I'd much rather send Winn and Leiter instead of White.

You have a limit of 26 players.

You need 4 SP for the playoffs.
The ALDS is 2-2-1
The ALCS is 2-3-2, IIRC
The WS is 2-3-2, IIRC

So, a 6 man rotation isn't necessary in the playoffs. There would be 56 G remaining and 5 off days. 5 in rotation would be 11G each. 6 in rotation would be 9. You could easily have enough of a lead that you could use expanded rosters in September to insert guys.

From a BP we likely have 6:
LH: Smith (35G, 2.83, 35.0, 38 SO), Chapman (37, 2.04, 35.1, 63SO), Burke (30G, 2.95, 36.2, 27 SO)
RH: Leclerc (28, 286, 28.1, 30), Sborz, Anderson

If you carry 13 Ps with a 5 man rotation and 6 in the BP. That leaves you 2 more adds. Would you want another SP?

Would you rather have Heaney/Perez in your playoff bullpen... or someone else? Heaney and Perez are both Lefties which is where your BP strength already lies.

I'm all for adding one more power arm, especially a righty. Maybe Jordan Hicks. And if we do go after another starter maybe pair him up with Flaherty or Montgomery. Pretty sure I read somewhere that STL was about to start selling

Dwb22 said:

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If they trade him they can't offer him the QO

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brain fart - no QO for a player acquired in trade entering FA.

Would that equate to more... or less LOB?

Some context:
Semien (32): .273, 12 HR, 9 SB, .343 OBP
Seager (29): .349, 13 HR, .413 OBP
Ohtani (28): .306, 35 HR, 11 SB, .391 OBP

Garcia (30): .264, 24 HR, 6 SB, .332
Lowe (27): .278, 10 HR, .367 OBP
Jung (25): .275, 19 HR, .324 OBP

Heim (28): .285, 13 HR, .340 OBP
Duran (24): .301, 13 HR, 4 SB, .336 OBP
Taveras (24): .288, 10 HR, 9 SB

DallasAg 94 said:

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Would that equate to more... or less LOB?

Some context:
Semien (32): .273, 12 HR, 9 SB, .343 OBP
Seager (29): .349, 13 HR, .413 OBP
Ohtani (28): .306, 35 HR, 11 SB, .391 OBP

Garcia (30): .264, 24 HR, 6 SB, .332
Lowe (27): .278, 10 HR, .367 OBP
Jung (25): .275, 19 HR, .324 OBP

Heim (28): .285, 13 HR, .340 OBP
Duran (24): .301, 13 HR, 4 SB, .336 OBP
Taveras (24): .288, 10 HR, 9 SB

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Yes

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/shohei-ohtani-trade-destinations-ranking-29-possible-landing-spots-based-on-whos-best-positioned-for-deal/

Tksymm7 said:

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I am not attacking anyone in particular with this, just a general idea; but I don't think trading for Ohtani (or anyone else for that matter) would really be depleting our farm system to a point where we would be devoid of talent or limit the talent that could come up in future years. Yes, we would have to trade some high level prospects, but we have done such a better job the past ~five years of scouting, drafting and signing players that I don't think it should be a massive worry. In fact, I think that we have some guys at the ACL and Low A/High A levels that are just as good if not better than some of our "top prospects" now. I agree that you don't want to do something outrageous like trading four of your top five guys in the minor leagues, but once again you also just can't sit on players forever that have no reasonable chance to play at the big club.

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1000% agree with you.

This is where CY will earn his money.

Will need to offer only enough to get him but not a bit more

It's like we joke around as structures guys. Anybody can build a strong bridge. A real stress man can build a bridge that is just barely strong enough.

Odor got DFAed and of the three guys the Padres just sent down he's got the best average at .210. That speaks to the awful production they've gotten from their bench.

That's the kind of article I've tried to put together in my mind.

I didn't know that Ohtani refused to talk with the NYY. I wonder if NY is really a potential destination in FA or not.

I'm guessing Ohtani really wants the Dodgers, Giants or Mariners to knock his socks off. Those are the three biggest MLB teams in Japan.

Quincey P. Morris said:

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Odor got DFAed and of the three guys the Padres just sent down he's got the best average at .210. That speaks to the awful production they've gotten from their bench.

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So, you're saying there's a chance...

fc2112 said:

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I'm guessing Ohtani really wants the Dodgers, Giants or Mariners to knock his socks off. Those are the three biggest MLB teams in Japan.

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The timezone works better, as well. a 7pm game in NYC is at 8am Tokyo time, IIRC. 7pm Pac time would be 11am...just in time for a noodle bowl.

But, gawd... are there 3 worse cities?! Maybe Chicago, Detroit, MSP, and NYC.

The Seattle stadium in in the Southern part of the city, so it doesn't get all the problem attention.

Last time I was in SF... a co-worker was heading to the Marconi Center and watched a woman at 8a drop a deuce on the sidewalk. Every time I left the hotel, I would smell weed which is better than the deuces, I suppose.

Dodger Stadium is a beating to get to. I can't imagine the extra time it takes for players to get to the stadium.

Quincey P. Morris said:

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Odor got DFAed and of the three guys the Padres just sent down he's got the best average at .210. That speaks to the awful production they've gotten from their bench.

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the reaction by the kids in the front row after Rougned Odor struck out in the 12th is incredible and I can't stop laughing pic.twitter.com/F1lQzupi2b

— Nick Piccone (@_piccone) July 17, 2023

Those kids really don't like odor.

DallasAg 94 said:

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fc2112 said:

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I'm guessing Ohtani really wants the Dodgers, Giants or Mariners to knock his socks off. Those are the three biggest MLB teams in Japan.

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The timezone works better, as well. a 7pm game in NYC is at 8am Tokyo time, IIRC. 7pm Pac time would be 11am...just in time for a noodle bowl.

But, gawd... are there 3 worse cities?! Maybe Chicago, Detroit, MSP, and NYC.

The Seattle stadium in in the Southern part of the city, so it doesn't get all the problem attention.

Last time I was in SF... a co-worker was heading to the Marconi Center and watched a woman at 8a drop a deuce on the sidewalk. Every time I left the hotel, I would smell weed which is better than the deuces, I suppose.

Dodger Stadium is a beating to get to. I can't imagine the extra time it takes for players to get to the stadium.

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How could you forget Oakland?

hawk1689 said:

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alvtimes said:

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I put my trade out on the other thread… but here is how i think it shakes out. The Rangers really only have to have a better offer than say 6-7 teams that might be in the picture… Moreno says he wont trade to Dodgers (bs but whatever). Acuna is blocked unless you plan on making Semien the DH in 2025. Same for Foscue, plus Cole Winn. Thats #3 #6 and #13 for a probable rental. Thats plenty, if they say no, take the same proposal to Padres for Hader

late throw in… Dustin Harris#7 with Wyatt Langford now signed up.

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Why would you offer the same package as Ohtani for Hader???

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Because teams will be coming for Hader if and when he becomes available…. but also a rental unless you can resign him. I dont necessarily like 3 lefty closer types but Hader seems to be one of the best that might be available. Again, all of my trade pieces are blocked for at least 4 yrs except for Winn, who might be maxed out as a Ranger. Thats why you stack talent throughout your farm system to be able to make a move like this without damaging the future of the big league club!!!

South Platte said:

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Tksymm7 said:

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I am not attacking anyone in particular with this, just a general idea; but I don't think trading for Ohtani (or anyone else for that matter) would really be depleting our farm system to a point where we would be devoid of talent or limit the talent that could come up in future years. Yes, we would have to trade some high level prospects, but we have done such a better job the past ~five years of scouting, drafting and signing players that I don't think it should be a massive worry. In fact, I think that we have some guys at the ACL and Low A/High A levels that are just as good if not better than some of our "top prospects" now. I agree that you don't want to do something outrageous like trading four of your top five guys in the minor leagues, but once again you also just can't sit on players forever that have no reasonable chance to play at the big club.

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The Rangers thread doesn't have any MLB gurus, unfortunately. Wish we had someone to frame this accurately. The Mavericks thread has MC Swag and Guitarsoup that seemingly spend all their awake hours studying NBA team logistics and could tell how a trade would work. Both should be working for an NBA team.

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Hellooooo… Im the MLB expert here…. just because ya'll dont acknowledge me doesnt mean I dont know my *****!!!!! LMAO!!!!!

Grapesoda2525 said:

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Quincey P. Morris said:

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Odor got DFAed and of the three guys the Padres just sent down he's got the best average at .210. That speaks to the awful production they've gotten from their bench.

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the reaction by the kids in the front row after Rougned Odor struck out in the 12th is incredible and I can't stop laughing pic.twitter.com/F1lQzupi2b

— Nick Piccone (@_piccone) July 17, 2023

Those kids really don't like odor.

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Man, I hate to see that for Rougie. He may not be a good MLB player anymore (not that he ever was) but he will always have my respect for the "punch" he laid on Jose Bautista. I always hoped he could get things figured out just because of that.

Those are Philly fans.

When your dad is mouthing off to players...you'd expect the same from his daughters...soon those sweet, cute little girls won't be so cute and sweet.

Andrew Dice comes to mind at the start of his movie.

Ag97 said:

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Grapesoda2525 said:

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Quincey P. Morris said:

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Odor got DFAed and of the three guys the Padres just sent down he's got the best average at .210. That speaks to the awful production they've gotten from their bench.

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the reaction by the kids in the front row after Rougned Odor struck out in the 12th is incredible and I can't stop laughing pic.twitter.com/F1lQzupi2b

— Nick Piccone (@_piccone) July 17, 2023

Those kids really don't like odor.

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Man, I hate to see that for Rougie. He may not be a good MLB player anymore (not that he ever was) but he will always have my respect for the "punch" he laid on Jose Bautista. I always hoped he could get things figured out just because of that.

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For a few years, it didn't seem to matter that odor was terrible. Management signed him to that contract and trotted him out there everyday because he decked Bautista. I even remember a few of the more wealthy rangers players offered to pay Odors fine for him.

I don't get why "the punch" was a big deal, especially if you look at the results of those Toronto playoff series, but it's a big moment to some ranger fans / Jeff banister loved it.

I'm so glad banister and Odor aren't here anymore tho.

Something to keep in mind with trade talks: offseason trades are vastly different than regular season deals. Could make sense to keep our chips until the winter. Nearly impossible to pry away a contributing player from a team during a playoff push, but during the offseason when teams are reconstructing their rosters it's much easier to do true big league for big league swaps (eg Arraez for Lopez)

If we're gonna move Duran (I think I would be more inclined to trade Adolis, but that is a different conversation), I would like to see it happen for a young, high upside pitcher.

I don't disagree to some extent.

We need a RHRP or 2 and if we can get Ohtani, I think we should. But only if we're not betting the farm.

Having said that, winning the WS will put some things in motion.

As I mentioned, if we could get Ohtani for what amounts to Martin Perez, Bradford, and say, Foscue...then win the WS... in the off-season we can really do some big things for the future.

Winning the WS takes pressure off the organization.

You could then look to move Semien. He will be 33 with 5 years left at $26M for 4, and $20M in 2028, at 37. Slide either Duran or Acuna into 2B.

Move Adolis. He will be 31 and have 3 Arb years. Run the OF of Langford-Taveras-Carter. Or sign a FA for 1 year if Langford isn't ready.

Your rotation of:
Eovaldi, Dunning, Gray, Heaney, and Otto/White/Other gives you the same.

Trade deadline 2024, assuming Heaney is at the back of the rotation, he is movable if my plan works.

The players you get back from Adolis and Semien are the guys you will use to replace Eovaldi, Gray, Taveras, and Lowe in 3 years.

Win another WS in 2024.

There. I'm a GM.

Mr Gigem said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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I don't disagree to some extent.

We need a RHRP or 2 and if we can get Ohtani, I think we should. But only if we're not betting the farm.

Having said that, winning the WS will put some things in motion.

As I mentioned, if we could get Ohtani for what amounts to Martin Perez, Bradford, and say, Foscue...then win the WS... in the off-season we can really do some big things for the future.

Winning the WS takes pressure off the organization.

You could then look to move Semien. He will be 33 with 5 years left at $26M for 4, and $20M in 2028, at 37. Slide either Duran or Ocuna into 2B.

Move Adolis. He will be 31 and have 3 Arb years. Run the OF of Langford-Taveras-Carter. Or sign a FA for 1 year if Langford isn't ready.

Your rotation of:
Eovaldi, Dunning, Gray, Heaney, and Otto/White/Other gives you the same.

Trade deadline 2024, assuming Heaney is at the back of the rotation, he is movable if my plan works.

The players you get back from Adolis and Semien are the guys you will use to replace Eovaldi, Gray, Taveras, and Lowe in 3 years.

Win another WS in 2024.

There. I'm a GM.

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I don't agree with any of this

You have no idea if Langford and Carter will be MLB ready for 2024, yet you want to go ahead and move our Gold Glove, All-Star RF in the offseason?

Then you want to move Semien, our All-Star 2B and hope Duran and Acuna can fill that void? Duran has shown he needs more plate discipline. And when's the last time he got reps at 2B? He is a below average OF. And just like Langford and Carter, you have no idea if Acuna will be MLB ready for 2024. But yeah, let's go ahead and move our leadoff hitter and a guy that leads the league in runs scored and is top 10 in RBI.

You're proposing

Acuna 2B (ready for 2024?)
Seager SS
Ohtani DH
Jung 3B
Carter RF (ready for 2024??)
Heim C
Lowe 1B
Langford LF (ready for 2024??)
Taveras CF

You, sir, are hereby silenced until our next sweep.

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Not so fast, my friend...I never said we'd sign Ohtani.

I did suggest we could sign a FA for LF if Langford isn't ready.

My concern with Semien is he is getting towards the back of his career and has been very streaky. His .273 BA is well above his .256 career and I think he'll decline.

I like Adolis, but like Semien, I think he is on the back of his career. It won't take much for his power numbers to disappear.

All of that is predicated on winning the WS.

The way you maintain the open window is by trading off star assets as they start to decline to restoke your farm.

For those interested. Here's Langford's introductory press conference.

No one is giving a top prospect for Perez, Heaney or Janikowski.

Ohtani for Perez, Bradford, and Foscue? LOL