Because he might have value to someone else?

If you swing a trade for Ohtani you need to be able to sign him to a long term extension. I don't think its a good idea to mortgage the farm for a 2 month rental even if he is the best player in baseball.

I don't agree with the value of Ohtani from this website, but theoretically this could be enough.

I don't remember the rules about trading injures players, but I wonder what the possibility would be of including DeGrom. It would clear his contract off our books to make room for signing Ohtani, and the idea of them having DeGrom after he makes his recovery could be appealing if that lines up with when they're trying to be competitive again.

*insert banging credit card on the table gif

94chem said:

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Because he might have value to someone else?

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I think he has just as much value to this team as some of the more expensive players / regulars. If Seager or semien get hurt, he can step in and replace most of their production ( ok not Seager, but who can?). The offense was still clicking without Seager mainly because Duran stepped up.

He's the ultimate insurance policy or backup plan, but we can still find a way to get his bat in the line up. It's a win win for the rangers.

We should be able to give up guys like Foscue or wendzel instead of Duran.

thegoodolag15 said:

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If you swing a trade for Ohtani you need to be able to sign him to a long term extension. I don't think its a good idea to mortgage the farm for a 2 month rental even if he is the best player in baseball.

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Took us 5-7 years of hard work and shrewd moves to build up the farm. Trout will come back for the Angels and that team might be a head ache for years to come. It's only worth it if Ohtani is retained for several more years damnit.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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thegoodolag15 said:

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If you swing a trade for Ohtani you need to be able to sign him to a long term extension. I don't think its a good idea to mortgage the farm for a 2 month rental even if he is the best player in baseball.

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Took us 5-7 years of hard work and shrewd moves to build up the farm. Trout will come back for the Angels and that team might be a head ache for years to come. It's only worth it if Ohtani is retained for several more years damnit.

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You don't even know what we'd be giving up. And it'd definitely be worth it if we did win a championship.

thegoodolag15 said:

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If you swing a trade for Ohtani you need to be able to sign him to a long term extension. I don't think its a good idea to mortgage the farm for a 2 month rental even if he is the best player in baseball.

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Forget it then. Trading for him and signing him long term are totally disconnected.

South Platte said:

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alvtimes said:

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Forward thinking on trade deadline and the bullpen…. what does bringing back Matt Moore if Angels stay @ .500? He is on a 1 yr deal and the Angels should have paid the majority of his $7.5. Seems to be having another very good year as of right now.

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Ohtani or GTFO

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I posted this on 6/6/23. I was sort of joking, but here we are 6 weeks later with it gaining traction. Honestly, as one poster perfectly said above, we are in Year 0 of a rebuild. This was supposed to be a relaxing season where we make a late push to get to .500 on the season. Bochy came in and pulled us into WS contention.

Ohtani won't be free. It makes me nervous just to think about getting him. Battered Rangers Syndrome.

I am not attacking anyone in particular with this, just a general idea; but I don't think trading for Ohtani (or anyone else for that matter) would really be depleting our farm system to a point where we would be devoid of talent or limit the talent that could come up in future years. Yes, we would have to trade some high level prospects, but we have done such a better job the past ~five years of scouting, drafting and signing players that I don't think it should be a massive worry. In fact, I think that we have some guys at the ACL and Low A/High A levels that are just as good if not better than some of our "top prospects" now. I agree that you don't want to do something outrageous like trading four of your top five guys in the minor leagues, but once again you also just can't sit on players forever that have no reasonable chance to play at the big club.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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DallasAg 94 said:

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One other reminder if we were to get Ohtani.

That allows us to trade:
Heaney and/or Perez, and Jankowski and/or Duran.

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We lose tonight if Duran doesn't play. The kid has been slumping lately, but he's still extremely valuable.

Duran went deep on the Cy Young favorite tonight, it's almost august and he's still hitting over .300. He can play shortstop or 2nd at a high level. He can also DH. He's also under cheap control for another few years.

How do you even begin to think about trading someone like that?

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Based on my scenario, if we trade Duran... then we have Ohtani (7/18, 3HR, 3BB since the break).

How do I consider trading him?

SS - Seager: 8 more years
3B - Jung: 6 more years
2B - Semien: 4+ more years
1B - Lowe: 3 more years

CF - Taveras: 4 more years
RF - Garcia: 3 more years

That leaves LF and DH. Everyone believes Evan Carter is the future, as soon as next year. Some thing Langford will be close. Acuna seems to be a similar player to Duran.

He can't play Catcher, AFAIK.

Tksymm7 said:

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I am not attacking anyone in particular with this, just a general idea; but I don't think trading for Ohtani (or anyone else for that matter) would really be depleting our farm system to a point where we would be devoid of talent or limit the talent that could come up in future years. Yes, we would have to trade some high level prospects, but we have done such a better job the past ~five years of scouting, drafting and signing players that I don't think it should be a massive worry. In fact, I think that we have some guys at the ACL and Low A/High A levels that are just as good if not better than some of our "top prospects" now. I agree that you don't want to do something outrageous like trading four of your top five guys in the minor leagues, but once again you also just can't sit on players forever that have no reasonable chance to play at the big club.

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The Rangers thread doesn't have any MLB gurus, unfortunately. Wish we had someone to frame this accurately. The Mavericks thread has MC Swag and Guitarsoup that seemingly spend all their awake hours studying NBA team logistics and could tell how a trade would work. Both should be working for an NBA team.

Perez doesn't hold value in LAAA. He is a FA at the end of the season. He does have value to teams like the Sox, Dodgers, Rays, Reds, and Indians among others looking to fill holes in their rotation just to get to the end.

Cole Winn has had a terrible season. He doesn't carry much value.

As suggested earlier, I'm not opposed to trading Taveras, but that is a risky option with 4 more years of team control. Somebody will have to go, soon, though... Carter, Langford, Duran, Taveras, Garcia.

I don't subscribe to the idea you have to be willing to sign Ohtani if you trade for him.

Duran has more value than to DH and play Util. We could take a lesser player to fill that role and reap a return back. Let's say we trade a today-Duran for a 3-4years from now Duran.

I have fantasized about us winning the WS and then talking to Semien about trading him to a team like the Dodgers or Red Sox. Slip Duran in at 2B.

Quote:

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I don't subscribe to the idea you have to be willing to sign Ohtani if you trade for him

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True. We would have little shot at signing him as a free agent IMO. You only trade for Ohtani if you think you have a shot at winning the WS. So to have a shot at a WS we would have to put ourselves in that position by also acquiring some bullpen help as well (Ohtani would obviously upgrade the rotation).

As I said above, you better assume you are NOT signing Ohtani in any and all trade considerations.

The package needed to get Ohtani is a function of what the Angels plan to do over the next few years. If they're smart, they'd want 5 good prospects with the hopes 3 or 4 of the form the core of a good team in 3 years.

Of course, they aren't smart. Moreno thinks you have to have stars in LA to sell tickets. If Duran and Foscue can do it, would you? I would.

Angels would want more, but if no one else offers more, do they just suck it up and get nothing for him?

We keep saying "Angels want more." Lotta things in life I want that I'm never getting. My guess is Moreno holds out for the moon and the stars and ends up with nothing.

AgBQ-00 said:

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Our window is just now opening. Would really like to have waves of talent coming up to keep it open as long as possible. Have no interest in rebuilding the farm once again.

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Our farm is deep because we went out and got a bunch of FAs.

WIthout Eovaldi, Heaney, and Gray, we'd have Otto, White, and Bradford.

Without Seager and Semien, we'd have Duran and Acuna.

Tanking only works when your Top 5 picks work out. As of now, we got Jung (Legit), Foscue, Leiter, Rocker (TJ), and Langford.

fc2112 said:

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thegoodolag15 said:

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If you swing a trade for Ohtani you need to be able to sign him to a long term extension. I don't think its a good idea to mortgage the farm for a 2 month rental even if he is the best player in baseball.

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Forget it then. Trading for him and signing him long term are totally disconnected.

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This. I see way to many Rangers fan giving the "its worth it if he will sign with us".

They aren't TOTALLY disconnected in that it does give you 3 months exclusive negotiating time, but for a guy that is no doubt testing free agency that isn't worth a whole lot.

NBA and to a lesser extent NFL are far easier to develop framework because of payroll restrictions, roster space, etc. Additionally the trade pieces in question are typically known quantities on the professional level. That's not the case in baseball where teams don't have a cap, can "find a spot" for any stud, and the trade pieces are 20 year-Olds with 20IP.

No one is going to be able to frame it accurately until a market is established. Prime trade deadline candidates can bring a haul (Teixeira) or they can bring a paltry sum (Darvish).

It all depends on the market.

I was mainly just throwing names I'd be okay parting with to get the value numbers to look good.

However, Winn has shown his potential in the past. And it's incredibly disappointing seeing him fall off the cliff like he has. I'm thinking his issues are probably just mental and it could be good for a change of scenery and coaching staff to get him back on track.. but who knows if they'd be interested in him.

And getting the free agents has allowed that talent to actually get a chance to develop before getting to the majors. Some will of course be misses. But getting seasoning in the minors is not a bad thing. We need waves of talent coming. We are in position now to make that reality, or we can go trade crazy and burn it all down again. Put me in the camp of wanting to finally have prospects become MLB ready before they actually get to the show..

But who is going to get a chance to actually play for us outside of pitchers in the next 2-3 years? Evan Carter, Wyatt Langford, and Owen White are really the only three guys that have that chance because they are either of that level of talent or they are going to get the opportunity because of spots opening up. Outside of those three guys I truly don't think there is room for anyone else within 2-3 years.

If the Halos keep Ohtani, they likely get an MVP trophy for the shelf. I think they can offer a QO and get a Comp pick, as well.

Trout and Rendon are signed to like $75M for each of the next 3 seasons. I think they will want MLB ready players.

Foscue would likely be one. Bradford could be another. The could want another like Duran/Taveras that could be available with Ohtani playing this year and the guys coming up.

Foscue, Bradford, and Taveras?

Look at the Dodgers and Nationals in 2019: LA traded for Scherzer (rental) and Trea Turner (1.5 seasons under team control). That's relatively similar to Ohtani value-wise imo.

Washington got four prospects, who ranked 1, 2, 17, and Unranked in the Dodgers system. That's #57 and #58 in the MLB top 100, and then some filler.

Obviously, the market + some underlying factors don't make this an apples to apples comparison, but I think it paints a solid picture.

If you think Duran is a future star, you don't trade 5 years of having him for a rental, even if that rental is maybe the best player ever. Evan Carter is off the table as well. Acuna, White, Porter, and maaaaaybe even Walcott/Guitierrez fit the profile of top 100 guys that could move the needle. From there, we have plenty of solid guys to fill out a deal.

TLDR: based on recent deals, Acuna + White + Saggesse + Chase Lee seems like a decent starting place for an Ohtani rental.

I doubt Angels would take what I'd be willing to give, and that includes Foscue and Leiter.

If they trade him they can't offer him the QO

fc2112 said:

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Hot Sports Opinion here.

I think we'll all be surprised at how little it takes to get Ohtani.

Reasoning: small number of suitors (6?) and wide spread knowledge it's JUST a rental. No one is dumb enough to put value into maybe seducing him to stay just because they were nice. He's going to the west or east coast. Period.

Also, Angels will get a compensatory pick assuming they make a QO, so that which is receive in trade can simply be thought of as in addition to that pick.

I think the deal DallasAg alluded to above is maybe even more than they end up getting.

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I'm starting to feel better about this. I wish there was a way to acquire him without giving up any of our top 100 or duran.

Trading a future star for 2 months of Babe Ruth reincarnated still makes me sick. Even tho he pretty much is a babe Ruth.

Remember the Darvish trade?

We got a very underwhelming take for a solid #2 and on some teams would be a #1 pitcher.

Grapesoda2525 said:

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fc2112 said:

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I think the deal DallasAg alluded to above is maybe even more than they end up getting.

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I'm starting to feel better about this. I wish there was a way to acquire him without giving up any of our top 100 or duran.

Trading a future star for 2 months of Babe Ruth reincarnated still makes me sick. Even tho he pretty much is a babe Ruth.

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You could possibly make a 3 way trade:

Rangers: Bradford (to Halos), Perez/Heaney (to 3rd party team), Jankowski (to 3rd party team)+ Foscue (to Halos)
Halos: Ohtani (to Rangers)
3rd Party: Two major ( between Top 5-15) prospects (to Halos).

That'd result in:
Rangers: Ohtani
Halos: Bradford, Foscue, and 2 Top 5-15 picks
3rd Party: Perez and Jankowski