To get the Angels to even begin to listen it would probably be something like Hunter Brown, Chas, Leon, and Arrighetti. That would be too much to pay for a rental.texasaggie2015 said:I really don't think it would even exist. They could put something together, but no way they would be able to retain him and it would absolutely gut the organization.Wabs said:
Question for y'all. What is a realistic package that you would offer for Ohtani? A deal that you'd be ok with from an Astros perspective and one that the Angels would at minimum consider doing. Does such a deal even exist?
***** 2023 Houston Astros Season Thread *****
6,659,609 Views |
114825 Replies |
Last: 9 mo ago by texasaggie2015
They'd honestly demand something like Tucker as well.
I don't think Ohtani will be as expensive as people think. Everyone knows he is just a rental and you are basically trading for a few months of "negotiation". If the Angels overplay they might be stuck with him.
The Mets might be the only ones dumb enough to offload their entire farm team for Ohtani, but they aren't going to be buyers either.
I do think a minimum you're talking one or two of Chas/Meyers/Leon, then either Urquidy/Brown, then one or two other top 10 org prospects (probably pitchers).
The Mets might be the only ones dumb enough to offload their entire farm team for Ohtani, but they aren't going to be buyers either.
I do think a minimum you're talking one or two of Chas/Meyers/Leon, then either Urquidy/Brown, then one or two other top 10 org prospects (probably pitchers).
Chas, Brown, & 2 more top 10 guys is an enormous price for 2-3 months of Ohtani.
Farmer1906 said:
Chas, Brown, & 2 more top 10 guys is an enormous price for 2-3 months of Ohtani.
Chas is already gone in my mind. Brown would hurt but if they agreed to Urquidy that wouldn't be awful (we thought he'd be gone last year as is). 2 prospects would hurt the farm team, but they don't always pan out and you have to give up something.
Even if we scratch our way to the postseason (likely) I just don't see them making it deep just on Framber's arm.
If we're going to do something like that, Crane would need to be willing to offer Ohtani an enormous contract at season's end. And it would be huge - something like 10 years, $550M (or maybe more when other teams start offering). Otherwise, we'd be paying WAY too much for a rental. I think there is 0% chance Crane would be willing to pay that big of a contract.Farmer1906 said:
Chas, Brown, & 2 more top 10 guys is an enormous price for 2-3 months of Ohtani.
And after Ohtani leaves you're left in a bad spot. There's much better ways to add an arm and bat without gutting the organization.
Plus, if he gets injured, you lose both your best hitter and your 2nd best pitcher
However, I will add that the price of the tears of NY fans (and the rest of the haters) would be worth $100M alone.
You'd be OK giving up all that even Hunter Brown for a couple months of Ohtani?
Man...That's a lot
Man...That's a lot
We still have Brown for 6 more years.
Even if Crane was somehow willing to shell out that much for Ohtani, I'd still pass on trading for him now and just wait til the season is over.Wabs said:If we're going to do something like that, Crane would need to be willing to offer Ohtani an enormous contract at season's end. And it would be huge - something like 10 years, $550M (or maybe more when other teams start offering). Otherwise, we'd be paying WAY too much for a rental. I think there is 0% chance Crane would be willing to pay that big of a contract.Farmer1906 said:
Chas, Brown, & 2 more top 10 guys is an enormous price for 2-3 months of Ohtani.
All that for a rental is insane, and how you destroy a franchise.
What do you boys want for breakfast BBQ ?.....OK Chili.
Wabs said:
Question for y'all. What is a realistic package that you would offer for Ohtani? A deal that you'd be ok with from an Astros perspective and one that the Angels would at minimum consider doing. Does such a deal even exist?
He's the issue. If you trade for Ohtani you get 2+ months of him.
However…. You'll be giving the Angels so much in return and they are a division rival. You'd be giving the Angels people like Pena, Brown, Gilbert, + at least 2 of your top prospects and helping them build their future.
You'd trade your entire future to a division foe in order to get 2.5 months of Ohtani.
Ding ding ding.
And this is why it won't happen.
The Astros don't need a guy like Ohtani to contend. They just need a couple smaller pieces and some better fortune in the second half.
And this is why it won't happen.
The Astros don't need a guy like Ohtani to contend. They just need a couple smaller pieces and some better fortune in the second half.
According to Vegas as of today, Astros are only slightly behind Rays for making the WS out of the AL.
There is no reason for us to burn the franchise down for any rental.
We could use a #3/4 starter, one bat and one more good pen arm. That's all pretty easy to find.
There is no reason for us to burn the franchise down for any rental.
We could use a #3/4 starter, one bat and one more good pen arm. That's all pretty easy to find.
To me I'd go get Jack Flaherty/Lucas Giolito, and a bullpen arm.
However if in the next 2 weeks, Yordan and Altuve don't progress as well as you hope.. then I'd go get a lefty bat too that could be an impact in your lineup.
However if in the next 2 weeks, Yordan and Altuve don't progress as well as you hope.. then I'd go get a lefty bat too that could be an impact in your lineup.
I think we have to get the bat regardless. Adding Altuve and Yordan to the lineup helps, but we still have way too many guys who are a black hole of offensive production most of the time (Bregman, Maldy, outfielders aside from Tucker are very hit and miss). If we want to compete with the likes of the Orioles, Rays, and Rangers in the AL and then the Braves in the NL, all of whom have powerhouse offensive lineups, then we need more starting offensive firepower. As good as the pitching can be, there will be games where it turns into a boat race, and we will need more to keep up.tjack16 said:
To me I'd go get Jack Flaherty/Lucas Giolito, and a bullpen arm.
However if in the next 2 weeks, Yordan and Altuve don't progress as well as you hope.. then I'd go get a lefty bat too that could be an impact in your lineup.
Remember before Yordan went out, if Yordan didn't hit, the team didn't win. That won't work in the playoffs, because you'll see what happens to the Yankees - don't let Judge beat you and you win.
Let someone else decimate their franchise for the foreseeable future.
EastCoastAgNc said:I think we have to get the bat regardless. Adding Altuve and Yordan to the lineup helps, but we still have way too many guys who are a black hole of offensive production most of the time (Bregman, Maldy, outfielders aside from Tucker are very hit and miss). If we want to compete with the likes of the Orioles, Rays, and Rangers in the AL and then the Braves in the NL, all of whom have powerhouse offensive lineups, then we need more starting offensive firepower. As good as the pitching can be, there will be games where it turns into a boat race, and we will need more to keep up.tjack16 said:
To me I'd go get Jack Flaherty/Lucas Giolito, and a bullpen arm.
However if in the next 2 weeks, Yordan and Altuve don't progress as well as you hope.. then I'd go get a lefty bat too that could be an impact in your lineup.
Remember before Yordan went out, if Yordan didn't hit, the team didn't win. That won't work in the playoffs, because you'll see what happens to the Yankees - don't let Judge beat you and you win.
We're calling Bregman a black hole now?
Well, he hasn't been great this year. He looked awful against Seattle. He's at least in the category of lacking consistency. With Yordan gone, this should have been an opportunity for him to step up and produce, and aside from a few games here and there, he's done very little.Farmer1906 said:EastCoastAgNc said:I think we have to get the bat regardless. Adding Altuve and Yordan to the lineup helps, but we still have way too many guys who are a black hole of offensive production most of the time (Bregman, Maldy, outfielders aside from Tucker are very hit and miss). If we want to compete with the likes of the Orioles, Rays, and Rangers in the AL and then the Braves in the NL, all of whom have powerhouse offensive lineups, then we need more starting offensive firepower. As good as the pitching can be, there will be games where it turns into a boat race, and we will need more to keep up.tjack16 said:
To me I'd go get Jack Flaherty/Lucas Giolito, and a bullpen arm.
However if in the next 2 weeks, Yordan and Altuve don't progress as well as you hope.. then I'd go get a lefty bat too that could be an impact in your lineup.
Remember before Yordan went out, if Yordan didn't hit, the team didn't win. That won't work in the playoffs, because you'll see what happens to the Yankees - don't let Judge beat you and you win.
We're calling Bregman a black hole now?
EastCoastAgNc said:Well, he hasn't been great this year. He looked awful against Seattle. He's at least in the category of lacking consistency. With Yordan gone, this should have been an opportunity for him to step up and produce, and aside from a few games here and there, he's done very little.Farmer1906 said:EastCoastAgNc said:I think we have to get the bat regardless. Adding Altuve and Yordan to the lineup helps, but we still have way too many guys who are a black hole of offensive production most of the time (Bregman, Maldy, outfielders aside from Tucker are very hit and miss). If we want to compete with the likes of the Orioles, Rays, and Rangers in the AL and then the Braves in the NL, all of whom have powerhouse offensive lineups, then we need more starting offensive firepower. As good as the pitching can be, there will be games where it turns into a boat race, and we will need more to keep up.tjack16 said:
To me I'd go get Jack Flaherty/Lucas Giolito, and a bullpen arm.
However if in the next 2 weeks, Yordan and Altuve don't progress as well as you hope.. then I'd go get a lefty bat too that could be an impact in your lineup.
Remember before Yordan went out, if Yordan didn't hit, the team didn't win. That won't work in the playoffs, because you'll see what happens to the Yankees - don't let Judge beat you and you win.
We're calling Bregman a black hole now?
By Bregman standards he is having a down year thus far. By basdeball standards he's been better than Maldy, Abreu, Meyers, Dubon, & Pena and very similar to Julks & Diaz.
I agree that Ohtani is a fool's buy as a rental; however, I feel like we need more of a difference maker arm than just a 3/4. Our issue is we have quantity of starters, but not quality right now outside of Framber. Urquidy, France, Bielak, Blanco, etc. will give competitive innings, but there are no stoppers there.
Javier and Brown are quality pitchers, but have hit the wall you expect of young pitchers not stretched out for heavy loads. We need to NOT count on riding them hard in the second half and worry more about having them right for the postseason.
THAT is where we miss Verlander. Postseason performance aside, he was a workhorse that was going to give quality innings every 5-6 days and be a true stopper.
In some ways, I feel as though we are a team that has to get back to basics. We have gotten spoiled that every year is a postseason year and worry about playoff optimization. I agree with Jeter that we are still fantastically aligned for the postseason. The problem is that we are suddenly not as surely built for GETTING there in good shape.
If we are going to just get a 3/4 starter, then we have to get an true impact bat so that we can outscore teams. If we are going to mostly run with the offense as is, then we need a more impact starter.
For the bullpen, I think we just need another fresh middle reliever to give our tired arms a break. We have enough high end guys and just nees to distribute the load better.
Javier and Brown are quality pitchers, but have hit the wall you expect of young pitchers not stretched out for heavy loads. We need to NOT count on riding them hard in the second half and worry more about having them right for the postseason.
THAT is where we miss Verlander. Postseason performance aside, he was a workhorse that was going to give quality innings every 5-6 days and be a true stopper.
In some ways, I feel as though we are a team that has to get back to basics. We have gotten spoiled that every year is a postseason year and worry about playoff optimization. I agree with Jeter that we are still fantastically aligned for the postseason. The problem is that we are suddenly not as surely built for GETTING there in good shape.
If we are going to just get a 3/4 starter, then we have to get an true impact bat so that we can outscore teams. If we are going to mostly run with the offense as is, then we need a more impact starter.
For the bullpen, I think we just need another fresh middle reliever to give our tired arms a break. We have enough high end guys and just nees to distribute the load better.
Good post. Agree on most of those points.
Agree with everything here. I've said we need to get a solid 2 pitcher, especially in light of Javy's recent fall off. Hopefully he regains his stride but who knows...SpaceCityAg05 said:
I agree that Ohtani is a fool's buy as a rental; however, I feel like we need more of a difference maker arm than just a 3/4. Our issue is we have quantity of starters, but not quality right now outside of Framber. Urquidy, France, Bielak, Blanco, etc. will give competitive innings, but there are no stoppers there.
Javier and Brown are quality pitchers, but have hit the wall you expect of young pitchers not stretched out for heavy loads. We need to NOT count on riding them hard in the second half and worry more about having them right for the postseason.
THAT is where we miss Verlander. Postseason performance aside, he was a workhorse that was going to give quality innings every 5-6 days and be a true stopper.
In some ways, I feel as though we are a team that has to get back to basics. We have gotten spoiled that every year is a postseason year and worry about playoff optimization. I agree with Jeter that we are still fantastically aligned for the postseason. The problem is that we are suddenly not as surely built for GETTING there in good shape.
If we are going to just get a 3/4 starter, then we have to get an true impact bat so that we can outscore teams. If we are going to mostly run with the offense as is, then we need a more impact starter.
For the bullpen, I think we just need another fresh middle reliever to give our tired arms a break. We have enough high end guys and just nees to distribute the load better.
I think adding a strong 2 will actually help bolster the BP as well. Blanco, Urquidy and/or Beilak could go the BP and be that guy we need to be the middle reliever and innings eater.
I know some don't think highly of Bielak, but I would really like to put him back in the pen as the long guy (let Blanco stay stretched out here or at AAA).
Bielak is never pretty, but not only does he provide bulk, but he is fairly rubber armed and he can get hot in a hurry.
Given that Dusty has not adjusted to speed of the game and is slow to get relievers up and warm when someone gets in trouble, Bielak can be invaluable in taking off some pressure of of Maton to always have to get hot in the 5th inning.
Bielak is never pretty, but not only does he provide bulk, but he is fairly rubber armed and he can get hot in a hurry.
Given that Dusty has not adjusted to speed of the game and is slow to get relievers up and warm when someone gets in trouble, Bielak can be invaluable in taking off some pressure of of Maton to always have to get hot in the 5th inning.
I think as a lineup this would be fine in the playoffs. It won't lose you a series, but it won't "out-slug" a team
1. Altuve - 2B
2. Tucker - RF
3. Bregman - 3B
4. Alvarez - LF
5. Pena - SS
6. Abreu - 1B
7. McCormick / New acquisition - CF
8. Diaz - DH
9. Maldonado - C
Although what I'd love to do is get DIaz at catcher and now you can put whoever you want as your DH. But they won't because Maldonado
This also might help Bregman because he's protected by two all stars if Tucker and Alvarez are around him in the lineup
1. Altuve - 2B
2. Tucker - RF
3. Bregman - 3B
4. Alvarez - LF
5. Pena - SS
6. Abreu - 1B
7. McCormick / New acquisition - CF
8. Diaz - DH
9. Maldonado - C
Although what I'd love to do is get DIaz at catcher and now you can put whoever you want as your DH. But they won't because Maldonado
This also might help Bregman because he's protected by two all stars if Tucker and Alvarez are around him in the lineup
SpaceCityAg05 said:
I know some don't think highly of Bielak, but I would really like to put him back in the pen as the long guy (let Blanco stay stretched out here or at AAA).
Bielak is never pretty, but not only does he provide bulk, but he is fairly rubber armed and he can get hot in a hurry.
Given that Dusty has not adjusted to speed of the game and is slow to get relievers up and warm when someone gets in trouble, Bielak can be invaluable in taking off some pressure of of Maton to always have to get hot in the 5th inning.
I actually think Bielak is better as a starter. The issue with him as a reliever is usually if he does give up runs, they all come in the same inning or back to back innings. So if he's out there for 2 innings of relief, he might give up the same amount of runs that he would if it was a 5-6 inning start.
To me he's your #5 or 6 starter in the regular season and then maybe the very last reliever on your ALCS/WS roster to use in a blowout or extra innings situation
If you're going to have a new acquisition batting 7th in the lineup, then I'd suggest we just keep Chas and have him hit there. I'd like to see us get a bat that can go anywhere from 2-5 in the lineup.tjack16 said:
I think as a lineup this would be fine in the playoffs. It won't lose you a series, but it won't "out-slug" a team
1. Altuve - 2B
2. Tucker - RF
3. Bregman - 3B
4. Alvarez - LF
5. Pena - SS
6. Abreu - 1B
7. McCormick / New acquisition - CF
8. Diaz - DH
9. Maldonado - C
Although what I'd love to do is get DIaz at catcher and now you can put whoever you want as your DH. But they won't because Maldonado
This also might help Bregman because he's protected by two all stars if Tucker and Alvarez are around him in the lineup
The Astros are not serious about winning until DiAz is catching 67% of the time
Stros took Nehomar Ochoa from Galena Park HS in the 11th. This is Dana's big get. Ranked as a top 20 OF in the nation at the HS level and the Coogs top commit. Big 6-4 OF with every tool (hit 93 MPH on the mound).
MaxPower said:
Stros took Nehomar Ochoa from Galena Park HS in the 11th. This is Dana's big get. Ranked as a top 20 OF in the nation at the HS level and the Coogs top commit. Big 6-4 OF with every tool (hit 93 MPH on the mound).
This is why I was asking about draft strategy yesterday.
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
Didn't see this posted… savage.
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
Indeed. But he'll be back.