So has the joke Xan Diego already been made?

Ag_07 said:

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The Dodgers are falling behind in the NL arms race.

They lost Scherzer, both Trae and Justin Turner, Bellinger. Buehler is still gonna be out recovering from TJ and Dustin May has question marks coming back from TJ.

I don't think the ship is sinking but things aren't as glorious as they've been recently for LA and as of now I'd pick SD to win that division.

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It's beautiful. They have been outspending for years and years now All they have to show for it is a Mickey Mouse championship and crying about the Astros kicking their asses

I'm selling the Dodgers demise. They win for alot of the same reasons we win... elite player development and pitching braintrust. They might not win 111 next year and win the division by 22, but I still expect them to take the NL West comfortably.

Agree. They still have Mookie, Freddie, Smith, Muncy, Taylor, Kershaw, Urias, & Gonsolin. That is a hell of a core. Plus they're not going to not spend. They have 45 M before they get to the tax limit.

The PR gymnastics the Dodgers would have to do if they sign Correa will be amusing. I'd rather watch the Dodgers burn, but this would be an ok consolation prize.

The Rangers need to look no further than the commander in chief for the next GM.

He just got back B. Griner and all he had to give up in return was a notorious arms dealer known as the "Merchant of Death"!

Farmer1906 said:

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Prosperdick said:

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Harry Dunne said:

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I know this is petty and I should be more thankful for his huge part in the two championships and just leave it at that, but chasing money this late in his career when he's got so much already instead of staying here and really cementing the dynasty rubs me the wrong way.

I just want him to ufck off to New York already and let's move on.

Go ahead and flame my ungrateful ass. I deserve it.

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Besides owning the Yankees in the postseason he really didn't do much and certainly cost us 2 games in the 2019 WS.

Yes he was nails in the regular season but was hurt for two years and you would think the $60 million he was getting paid would be worth it to him to be in the dugout mentoring younger pitchers or just show up to show his support, but nope.

I hope he flames out and the NY press eats both Mr. Upton and his hot wife alive.

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This is madness.

He started the first game in the DS in 17 against a very good Sox team. He pitched great while Sale got destroyed by Altuve. Then get came back for game 4 and bridged it from Morton to Giles to close the series out.

I am not sure why you're dismissing his 5 games vs NY from 17-22, but he threw a CG to put us up 2-0 then 7 shuttie in an elimination game. Giant balls!

While he didn't win either game he started in the WS, he gave us 2 quality starts vs a stacked Dodger team with juiced baseballs.

There is probably a less than 1% chance we win the WS in 2017 without JV.

Pitched 19 games (18 starts) as an Astro in the postseason. He went 9-6 with a 3.87 ERA. He averaged 6 IP per start. That's not the best, but its pretty damn good. Compare him to his peers that played in Houston.

Cole 10-6 2.94 ERA
Framber 7-2 3.41 ERA
McCullers 2-3 3.47
Morton 7-5 3.46
Keuchel 4-3 3.71

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How can you go from cheering for this game for 6 years then immediately flip the switch because Houston didn't offer him anything close to what another team did? I don't get this kind of hate.

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Those are facts, and I agree for the most part.

But it's also true that although he is much more tactful and generally smarter than Cole, they are basically the same guy. JV is just smart enough to keep his mouth shut.

Everyone was was sad and wistful about Correa when he first left, and time has shown that he's a self-absorbed and superficial dude. I will always be thankful for what both of these guys did here, but I can all but guarantee that most will feel similarly about JV in a couple of years when he shows his ass in NY.

You can't argue with the things they did on the field. I think it's wrong to discount that just because they didn't stick around...but I don't think we need to revere them as if they were "bury me in the H" guys.

Harry Dunne said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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Prosperdick said:

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Harry Dunne said:

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I know this is petty and I should be more thankful for his huge part in the two championships and just leave it at that, but chasing money this late in his career when he's got so much already instead of staying here and really cementing the dynasty rubs me the wrong way.

I just want him to ufck off to New York already and let's move on.

Go ahead and flame my ungrateful ass. I deserve it.

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Besides owning the Yankees in the postseason he really didn't do much and certainly cost us 2 games in the 2019 WS.

Yes he was nails in the regular season but was hurt for two years and you would think the $60 million he was getting paid would be worth it to him to be in the dugout mentoring younger pitchers or just show up to show his support, but nope.

I hope he flames out and the NY press eats both Mr. Upton and his hot wife alive.

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This is madness.

He started the first game in the DS in 17 against a very good Sox team. He pitched great while Sale got destroyed by Altuve. Then get came back for game 4 and bridged it from Morton to Giles to close the series out.

I am not sure why you're dismissing his 5 games vs NY from 17-22, but he threw a CG to put us up 2-0 then 7 shuttie in an elimination game. Giant balls!

While he didn't win either game he started in the WS, he gave us 2 quality starts vs a stacked Dodger team with juiced baseballs.

There is probably a less than 1% chance we win the WS in 2017 without JV.

Pitched 19 games (18 starts) as an Astro in the postseason. He went 9-6 with a 3.87 ERA. He averaged 6 IP per start. That's not the best, but its pretty damn good. Compare him to his peers that played in Houston.

Cole 10-6 2.94 ERA
Framber 7-2 3.41 ERA
McCullers 2-3 3.47
Morton 7-5 3.46
Keuchel 4-3 3.71

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How can you go from cheering for this game for 6 years then immediately flip the switch because Houston didn't offer him anything close to what another team did? I don't get this kind of hate.

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Those are facts, and I agree for the most part.

But it's also true that although he is much more tactful and generally smarter than Cole, they are basically the same guy. JV is just smart enough to keep his mouth shut.

Everyone was was sad and wistful about Correa when he first left, and time has shown that he's a self-absorbed and superficial dude. I will always be thankful for what both of these guys did here, but I can all but guarantee that most will feel similarly about JV in a couple of years when he shows his ass in NY.

You can't argue with the things they did on the field. I think it's wrong to discount that just because they didn't stick around...but I don't think we need to revere them as if they were "bury me in the H" guys.

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CC and JV are both married to models and they are both superficial. Very interesting... Who would have thunk it.

I just don't get the sudden JV hate.

The guy pitched his ass off here, when healthy. Baseball is a game -- but it's also a business. How can you begrudge a guy for taking more money to go elsewhere?

I like my job. I like the company I work for. I also like the people on my team. We are doing great things!

But if an offer comes from another company that's a lot more money, you can guaran-damn-tee I'm going to take it. Why should JV be any different?

He didn't owe it to the team to mentor younger players. He had to focus on getting himself healthy to be the best player/employee he could be.

So, thank JV, wish him well, and enjoy what he helped the club achieve.

As far as the "Bury Me in the H" guys, most of it is PR posturing. It makes fans feel good, but if they get offers from other teams with more money when their contracts are up, they'll be gone.

There are three conversations going on right now on this thread that are all interrelated.

• Yordan's G6 bomb was projected at 450, but we all know that is not accurate.
• JV just had an amazing Cy Young year, and the question is how will he perform over the next 3?
• Goldilocks ball

Yordan's bomb was well over 450, but stat cast is looking at launch angle and EV compared to the regular season which was dead balls. The playoffs used Goldilocks balls and therefore his bomb went further than projected by stat cast.

Not to take anything away from JV, his year was astounding. However, he was hyper aggressive this year. I remember discussing early on how aggressive he was being and inducing fly balls that just weren't getting out. The same happened with Odorizzi right before his injury. Blummer was discussing how great of a run Odo was having because he was attacking batters, and we were bummed when Odo went down.

Look at JV's stat cast for 2019 versus 2022. In 2019 he had 32 balls hit between 100-110 EV and 20-35 launch angle which resulted in 23 HR's, .844 AVG, 1.556 wOBA. In 2022 he had 25 balls hit between 100-110EV, 20-35 LA which resulted in 11 HR's, .640 AVG, 1.178 wOBA.

The ball just did not jump this year compared to previous years and we all know how aggressive JV is. When we get to the playoffs and the ball has just a little more pop, those warning track balls turn into bombs.


That is why Framber and Javier are so much better in playoffs. The sinker and invisiball are just not hittable. JV can be aggressive during regular season, but in the playoffs it just turns into pitching meat versus the fly out. That is why JV is not worth 43M.

PrestigeWorldwideAg12 said:

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CC and JV are both married to models and they are both superficial. Very interesting... Who would have thunk it.

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I think most of us would be married to models but not for lack of opportunity.

Farmer1906 said:

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Prosperdick said:

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Harry Dunne said:

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I know this is petty and I should be more thankful for his huge part in the two championships and just leave it at that, but chasing money this late in his career when he's got so much already instead of staying here and really cementing the dynasty rubs me the wrong way.

I just want him to ufck off to New York already and let's move on.

Go ahead and flame my ungrateful ass. I deserve it.

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Besides owning the Yankees in the postseason he really didn't do much and certainly cost us 2 games in the 2019 WS.

Yes he was nails in the regular season but was hurt for two years and you would think the $60 million he was getting paid would be worth it to him to be in the dugout mentoring younger pitchers or just show up to show his support, but nope.

I hope he flames out and the NY press eats both Mr. Upton and his hot wife alive.

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This is madness.

He started the first game in the DS in 17 against a very good Sox team. He pitched great while Sale got destroyed by Altuve. Then get came back for game 4 and bridged it from Morton to Giles to close the series out.

I am not sure why you're dismissing his 5 games vs NY from 17-22, but he threw a CG to put us up 2-0 then 7 shuttie in an elimination game. Giant balls!

While he didn't win either game he started in the WS, he gave us 2 quality starts vs a stacked Dodger team with juiced baseballs.

There is probably a less than 1% chance we win the WS in 2017 without JV.

Pitched 19 games (18 starts) as an Astro in the postseason. He went 9-6 with a 3.87 ERA. He averaged 6 IP per start. That's not the best, but its pretty damn good. Compare him to his peers that played in Houston.

Cole 10-6 2.94 ERA
Framber 7-2 3.41 ERA
McCullers 2-3 3.47
Morton 7-5 3.46
Keuchel 4-3 3.71

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How can you go from cheering for this game for 6 years then immediately flip the switch because Houston didn't offer him anything close to what another team did? I don't get this kind of hate.

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Also worth mentioning what he did for the Astros brand. Gave our image a swagger we've never had, knowing that we had the celebrity couple, the guy with the endorsements and the girl in the stands, and could roll into NY and LA like we were the cool kids. Hasn't happened too often in Houston sports history. There was sort of a Camelot feel in 2017 with the engagement, etc.

I for one have no hate against JV.

With that being said, I am disappointed he would roll out to a team that is likely not going to be in contention when he could have a chance for another repeat visit to October Baseball Classic. All over what may be $8mm more a year (before taxes and higher cost of living). When you put all that into perspective, it's the reason I don't think the choice was 100% on him but Kate played a huge part of that. Ask yourself this; if you are a model and/or tied to that lifestyle, are you choosing to live in HTine or NYC? That is a no brainer to me if you are in that life.

IF JV wasn't married to her, I think he is chasing another ring as an Astro and I do believe Crane would offer him 2 years and $70mm for that with a 3rd year option based off hitting inning minimums.

Also, if you want to compare this to real world work experiences. Yea I agree I am jumping a great team and a great environment for an overall upgrade. However, if my current work environment is awesome and I'm enjoying what we are doing, I'm not jumping for 10-15% to go be miserable elsewhere.

Yeah, what's up with trashing JV and Correa today? Those guys gave it their all here and won championships. Eventually, it reached a point where there was a divergence between what they wanted and what was best for the franchise. Neither guy trashed the organization in any way at all. They're doing what they believe is best for them, and I'm grateful for what they did for the Astros.

I have nothing bad to say about either guy.

More mental gymnastics from The Athletic. Signing guys until they’re 40 is now a good move because everybody has started doing it and maybe the aging curve is changing. https://t.co/ZiA0b41Hac

— The Astros Locker WS Champs (@TheAstrosLocker) December 8, 2022

I know I'm arguing against myself here, but the Mets won 101 games last year. 2nd most in franchise history behind the GD '86 team.

I wouldn't think they'd be out of contention this year unless the 2012 Tigers rotation start to show their age.

AustinCountyAg said:

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PrestigeWorldwideAg12 said:

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I for one have no hate against JV.

With that being said, I am disappointed he would roll out to a team that is likely not going to be in contention when he could have a chance for another repeat visit to October Baseball Classic. All over what may be $8mm more a year (before taxes and higher cost of living). When you put all that into perspective, it's the reason I don't think the choice was 100% on him but Kate played a huge part of that. Ask yourself this; if you are a model and/or tied to that lifestyle, are you choosing to live in HTine or NYC? That is a no brainer to me if you are in that life.

IF JV wasn't married to her, I think he is chasing another ring as an Astro and I do believe Crane would offer him 2 years and $70mm for that with a 3rd year option based off hitting inning minimums.

Also, if you want to compare this to real world work experiences. Yea I agree I am jumping a great team and a great environment for an overall upgrade. However, if my current work environment is awesome and I'm enjoying what we are doing, I'm not jumping for 10-15% to go be miserable elsewhere.

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All of that was 100% correct until the last sentence. I don't believe JV will be "miserable" in NYC.

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Just wait until the team hits the skids or JV has a few bad outings.

I respect JV for what he accomplished here but his "renewed love of the game" schtick rubbed me the wrong way with the money grab. Heck, Judge turned down $30 million to stay where he liked his teammates and clubhouse. Heck, he's going to a team to play with a guy he hated at Detroit (Scherzer).

Also, the analogy someone posted about loving where they work but would jump ship for 15% obviously doesn't have a net worth of close to half a billion dollars. When you get that rich it's all about the experience.

I guarantee you if we win a couple of titles over the next 3 years and the Mets continue to miss the playoffs JV will regret it. He won't admit it publicly but he would trade $8 million or whatever it is (likely less with taxes and cost of living) to play with the Astros and experience another championship.

Again, I respect him for what he did for the Astros and he's a first ballot HOFer but the "renewed love of the game, his daughter and now he knows what's important" was all lip service. Ask any former player who has won it all and how special that is and then ask a guy who never won it all what they regret the most.

Anyway, flame away and rub one out to Kate but I'm done with him. I hope he fails miserably.

ETA - I should have said "continue to flame out in the playoffs or miss them." They were an after-thought this post-season.

This conversation has taken me down a wormhole of statistical research, the conclusion of which is that I'm angry that we didn't pay whatever it took to keep Randy Johnson. I had also forgotten that he almost ended up on the Rangers.

Astros Pass on Johnson

Astro General Manager Gerry Hunsicker said:

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"It's going to clearly take a fourth year to remain in this competition, and we were not prepared to do so at this time"

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(BTW he went on to win FOUR STRAIGHT CYA and of course went nuclear that 2001 postseason).

Quote:

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Houston, which acquired Johnson from Seattle on July 31, offered the left-hander a $33-million, three-year deal. In the end, Johnson is expected to get a contract averaging $12 million to $13 million per season.

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He ended up getting 4/$52

The animosity towards JV and sense he wronged you personally over wanting to play on a different team for much more money is amazing.

Panama Red said:

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The animosity towards JV and sense he wronged you personally over wanting to play on a different team for much more money is amazing.

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i'm really surprised by how many people are bitter towards him. More likely than not he's going to steadily decline over the next 2-3 years and we'll have dodged a bullet. We got him when we went all in in 2017 and won a World Series title, then he hung around and got us another one and won 2 Cy Youngs. He never said he was a lifetime Astro and then back on his promise, he just wanted to bankroll at the end of his career. Not everyone wants to live in Houston forever. When guys get that age they're thinking about life after baseball and where they want to be with their families. JV is easily one of my top 5-7 Astros of all time. WIsh him nothing but the best unless it's in the WS vs us.

Absolutely no animosity whatsoever towards JV. He will always be a huge part of this legendary run in Astros history. He made his decision and did what he thinks is best for him and his family. The Astros will be fine. We have more depth at SP than any team in MLB, and all of them have significant postseason experience.

Go get Beninitendi and let's roll.