Ag_07 said:

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Mixed bag?

Click built this BP

He acquired Stanek, Neris, Montero. He extended Pressly and developed/stuck with Abreu.

Without those guys we don't win a WS.

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Extending Pressly was obvious

Nerris was a good signing but he was also pretty expensive and didn't have dominant stats.

Stanek/Montero were good moves

Baez massive waste of money

So yes. Mixed bag of what he had influence on. Again, a big portion of our BP didn't require much action on his part

Pena's performance in postseason shows it was the right move. He dominated. Could he have done the same else where? Sure, its possible. But we will never know.

There is really no argument to make now that Pena should have batted lower. Dusty wanted him at 2, and he thrived when it mattered.

I would have kept Click. But Crane didn't. So rather than worry about what might I have been, I'm looking ahead and realizing it likely isn't going to be a devastating loss.

All I'll say is this who were the main guys used in the post season run?

Neris, Montero, and Abreu. Two of those guys brought in directly by Click. One of the guys they had the foresight to stick with and continue to develop (maybe one of the two pitching coaches hired by Click unlocked something Stromy couldn't).

Those are some pretty big influences to the post season run.

Baez sucked. Click has to eat that. But Saint Lunhow has to eat Carlos Gomez. All GMs have to eat bad moves.

Again, I'm fine with letting Click walk. I think there are guys out there who work better with Crane and can be juts as good, if not better in some areas.

Just seems silly to marginalize the bullpen moves that influenced the post-season run in a major way.

Beat40 said:

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Mathguy64 said:

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Ag_07 said:

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I posted yesterday I don't think Crane liked having to step in anytime something big was happening (ie JV resigning, Yordan extension).

Just my gut but I think Click was used to operating on a tB budget and would get cold feet on some of these big deals and Crane would step in.

I'm guessing Crane wants someone who can do this without having to babysit.

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I wonder if its just the opposite. He let Lunhow do that and it burned him bad so he's decided to oversee it much more closely.

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Based on comments from Click, he appears to work methodically and Crane seems to be a quick decision and go guy. That can certainly cause conflict between employee and boss.

It's a combination of everything everyone has mentioned. Crane stepping in, Click working slower than Crane would like, Click and Baker in conflict and Crane siding with Baker.

I honestly think a larger portion that anyone is letting on between Crane an Click is JV. I don't think Click wanted to pay JV and Crane wants to keep him around. If we re-sign JV whatever the cost is, that will tell me a whole lot.

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Depends what's meant by methodical. Maybe Click wanted to build a large enough sample size before making a decision, we are an analytics based team. We won't really know until get more information.

Beat40 said:

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All I'll say is this who were the main guys used in the post season run?

Neris, Montero, and Abreu. Two of those guys brought in directly by Click. One of the guys they had the foresight to stick with and continue to develop (maybe one of the two pitching coaches hired by Click unlocked something Stromy couldn't).

Those are some pretty big influences to the post season run.

Baez sucked. Click has to eat that. But Saint Lunhow has to eat Carlos Gomez. All GMs have to eat bad moves.

Again, I'm fine with letting Click walk. I think there are guys out there who work better with Crane and can be juts as good, if not better in some areas.

Just seems silly to marginalize the bullpen moves that influenced the post-season run in a major way.

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Pressly was huge, he didn't bring him in

It's pure speculation that Click had any direct impact on Abreu's development

So, like I said, I'm not marginalizing Click's impact on the bullpen, that's his best area, but it also wasn't a slam dunk given some of the duds like Baez he was responsible for

People on Click's staff aren't just leaving, guys. Not without a new job. Many (most) of these people make less than $100,000 a year. They aren't in the position to just jet.

And I don't know where the talk of shaking up the baseball ops department is. That one tweet that says "likely"? The analysts and other people doing the actual analytics and valuation are going to keep working. I don't think Crane has any issue with most of them.

I think this comes down to level of involvement needed and risk tolerance in the decision making process. Click is risk-averse and will just keep analyzing every possible scenario to try to get comfortable with a move. Crane can take more risks and wants to move faster. That is the most important thing to be aligned on.

A well-run department will be doing scenario analysis and stuff in the background all the time, but when it's time to make a decision, you make it with the info you have at the time (maybe a few quick more specific models), and keep moving forward. Fully on Crane's side if this is it.

Timing sucks, but it's not like we haven't already been looking ahead to free agency. Analytics on potential free agents was completed months ago. I'm sure Crane has his short list at 1B and at OF. Maybe RP if needed.

Also, stop with the Luhnow ***** Dude was a trash leader as it turns out. Typical McKinsey alum with the culture they have over there. I'm sure him and Skilling would get along well.

Beau Holder said:

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Ultimately the manager writes the lineup card, right? We spent all year lamenting that Dusty kept batting Yuli fifth where he killed tons of rallies. Only fair that he gets credit for putting Peña second where he routinely drove in runs and got on base for Yordan all postseason. He might've hit just as well at 6 but would it have had the same impact in different game situations?

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Ultimately I don't think it matters.

The point is Bonda's tweet is a criticism of Click's ability to evaluate for being too stupid to realize Pena should have been in the 2 spot when stats bear out the team was the same in WRC+ and runs per game when he was in the 2 spot or not. Overall, no one was proven right or wrong.

If Pena had the same post-season as regular season, Bonda doesn't even make the tweet.

BeaumontAg05 said:

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Why does everyone hate Brad Ausmus so much? Seems more than just he isn't a good coach.

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Ausmus is Crap

Yeah, I hadn't gotten to that portion when I posted. Other than that, he did say sure a few positive things. Darling had always been against the Astros. You know, 86 Mets and all.

AggiEE said:

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Beat40 said:

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All I'll say is this who were the main guys used in the post season run?

Neris, Montero, and Abreu. Two of those guys brought in directly by Click. One of the guys they had the foresight to stick with and continue to develop (maybe one of the two pitching coaches hired by Click unlocked something Stromy couldn't).

Those are some pretty big influences to the post season run.

Baez sucked. Click has to eat that. But Saint Lunhow has to eat Carlos Gomez. All GMs have to eat bad moves.

Again, I'm fine with letting Click walk. I think there are guys out there who work better with Crane and can be juts as good, if not better in some areas.

Just seems silly to marginalize the bullpen moves that influenced the post-season run in a major way.

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Pressly was huge, he didn't bring him in

It's pure speculation that Click had any direct impact on Abreu's development

So, like I said, I'm not marginalizing Click's impact on the bullpen, that's his best area, but it also wasn't a slam dunk given some of the duds like Baez he was responsible for

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I didn't mention Pressly for that reason.

Click may not have directly impacted Abreu - but he hired the guys who did and had fortitude to stick with him when he struggled early in the year. Didn't trade the potential at the trade deadline.

At minimum, of the 4 guys mostly used out of the bullpen in the post-season, 50% were brought in by Click. That is the definition of a large impact and pretty close to a slam dunk.

You are absolutely marginalizing Click's impact on the bullpen by continuing to mention Baez. You appear to think it a large enough deal that it about equals the impact of Neris, Montero, and Stanek. Yes, Baez sucked and was a dud, but he realized it and moved on. Being able to admit a mistake and move on from it is a good thing.

Again, I am not sad Click is gone.

Farmer1906 said:

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Who is handling the following now?

Any early FA signings? FA opened yesterday, TARGET LIST ALREADY IDENTIFIED

40-man roster decisions to protect guys from rule 5 draft (Nov 15 deadline) DONE

Non tender decisions. (Nov 18 deadline) DONE

Winter meetings aka the biggest event for signings and trades of the offseason. (Dec 5-8) CRANE AND SOME OTHERS WILL ATTEND. ONLY LOOKING AT MAYBE ONE POTENTIAL TRADE AND 1-2 FA SIGNINGS

Rule 5 Draft (Dec 7) OVERHYPED. WE AREN'T LIKELY TO DRAFT ANYONE. ONLY 1-2 PEOPLE WE NEED TO PROTECT.

There is a lot of really important **** happening and we got no one manning the ship.

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Most of this **** is already taken care of. You don't make these decisions last minute.

As previously discussed before this happened, Crane doesn't make this move without another person in mind. We're going to be just fine

cablinaggie said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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With the Astros likely overhauling their baseball ops department keep an eye on Brad Ausmus joining in some capacity. Ausmus was Oakland’s bench coach in 2022

— Adam Spolane (@AdamSpolane) November 11, 2022

I don't want him anywhere near our team or organization.

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Christ, just because he went to Dartmouth doesn't mean he's baseball smart. Thanks for the game-tying HR in the NLDS,Ausmus, but no thanks.

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Rather just make Reggie Jackson be GM. Let Bagwell run baseball ops lol

I think Ag07 makes good points.

Click is risk averse. Click's job was pretty much not to **** it up. He succeeded in that.

Crane seems more of the guy to take calculated risks that could reap big benefits. Lol at the Greinke trade. Luhnow and Crane pulled off that blockbuster deal. They also pulled off the blockbuster deal for JV. Both were big deals to benefit the team. Click's moves were more under the radar.

Someone said earlier that Crane seems to be a big dick swinger. I think that's probably the case.

Farmer1906 said:

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Buck Compton said:

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Farmer1906 said:

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Who is handling the following now?

Any early FA signings? FA opened yesterday, TARGET LIST ALREADY IDENTIFIED

40-man roster decisions to protect guys from rule 5 draft (Nov 15 deadline) DONE

Non tender decisions. (Nov 18 deadline) DONE

Winter meetings aka the biggest event for signings and trades of the offseason. (Dec 5-8) CRANE AND SOME OTHERS WILL ATTEND. ONLY LOOKING AT MAYBE ONE POTENTIAL TRADE AND 1-2 FA SIGNINGS

Rule 5 Draft (Dec 7) OVERHYPED. WE AREN'T LIKELY TO DRAFT ANYONE. ONLY 1-2 PEOPLE WE NEED TO PROTECT.

There is a lot of really important **** happening and we got no one manning the ship.

---

Most of this **** is already taken care of. You don't make these decisions last minute.

---

Who are they adding to the 40 man to protect?

Who are they targeting in FA? Who is determining the value of each guy?

Who did are they going to non tender?

Who is deciding who we trade in this one potential trade? BTW who let you know they're only looking at one?

Who are the 1-2 people they want to protect?

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Also, who handles any new possibilities other teams bring up outside what the Astros identify? We just going to let new possibilities go?

Farmer1906 said:

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Buck Compton said:

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Farmer1906 said:

---

Who is handling the following now?

Any early FA signings? FA opened yesterday, TARGET LIST ALREADY IDENTIFIED

40-man roster decisions to protect guys from rule 5 draft (Nov 15 deadline) DONE

Non tender decisions. (Nov 18 deadline) DONE

Winter meetings aka the biggest event for signings and trades of the offseason. (Dec 5-8) CRANE AND SOME OTHERS WILL ATTEND. ONLY LOOKING AT MAYBE ONE POTENTIAL TRADE AND 1-2 FA SIGNINGS

Rule 5 Draft (Dec 7) OVERHYPED. WE AREN'T LIKELY TO DRAFT ANYONE. ONLY 1-2 PEOPLE WE NEED TO PROTECT.

There is a lot of really important **** happening and we got no one manning the ship.

---

Most of this **** is already taken care of. You don't make these decisions last minute.

---

Who are they adding to the 40 man to protect?

Who are they targeting in FA? Who is determining the value of each guy?

Who did are they going to non tender?

Who is deciding who we trade in this one potential trade? BTW who let you know they're only looking at one?

Who are the 1-2 people they want to protect?

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I mean, surely Click isn't solely the guy making all those decisions, he's just signing off on them

So I think those plans are already in work by other office staff and Crane will sign off for them instead

Farmer1906 said:

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Who is handling the following now?

Any early FA signings? FA opened yesterday,

40-man roster decisions to protect guys from rule 5 draft (Nov 15 deadline)

Non tender decisions. (Nov 18 deadline)

Winter meetings aka the biggest event for signings and trades of the offseason. (Dec 5-8)

Rule 5 Draft (Dec 7)

There is a lot of really important **** happening and we got no one manning the ship.

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Obviously that just means not a lot of decisions needed to be made at this time that Crane can't handle. It's part of being a billionaire owner, it's his business.

Farmer1906 said:

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Buck Compton said:

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Farmer1906 said:

---

Who is handling the following now?

Any early FA signings? FA opened yesterday, TARGET LIST ALREADY IDENTIFIED

40-man roster decisions to protect guys from rule 5 draft (Nov 15 deadline) DONE

Non tender decisions. (Nov 18 deadline) DONE

Winter meetings aka the biggest event for signings and trades of the offseason. (Dec 5-8) CRANE AND SOME OTHERS WILL ATTEND. ONLY LOOKING AT MAYBE ONE POTENTIAL TRADE AND 1-2 FA SIGNINGS

Rule 5 Draft (Dec 7) OVERHYPED. WE AREN'T LIKELY TO DRAFT ANYONE. ONLY 1-2 PEOPLE WE NEED TO PROTECT.

There is a lot of really important **** happening and we got no one manning the ship.

---

Most of this **** is already taken care of. You don't make these decisions last minute.

---

Who are they adding to the 40 man to protect?

Who are they targeting in FA? Who is determining the value of each guy?

Who did are they going to non tender?

Who is deciding who we trade in this one potential trade? BTW who let you know they're only looking at one?

Who are the 1-2 people they want to protect?

---

What point to you think this makes?

If he is right and this has already been done, the poster isn't going to know the answers to these.

I'd bet decisions on 40 man roster and tenders have already been made. I'm with you on free agency decisions. "go get this big name" is the easy part. its signing the fill ins that you really need a GM in place for.

I feel like a lot of this incredible run of success is Crane, but maybe I'm mistaken. He just seems to make outstanding move after outstanding move.

Beat40 said:

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Farmer1906 said:

---

Buck Compton said:

---

Farmer1906 said:

---

Who is handling the following now?

Any early FA signings? FA opened yesterday, TARGET LIST ALREADY IDENTIFIED

40-man roster decisions to protect guys from rule 5 draft (Nov 15 deadline) DONE

Non tender decisions. (Nov 18 deadline) DONE

Winter meetings aka the biggest event for signings and trades of the offseason. (Dec 5-8) CRANE AND SOME OTHERS WILL ATTEND. ONLY LOOKING AT MAYBE ONE POTENTIAL TRADE AND 1-2 FA SIGNINGS

Rule 5 Draft (Dec 7) OVERHYPED. WE AREN'T LIKELY TO DRAFT ANYONE. ONLY 1-2 PEOPLE WE NEED TO PROTECT.

There is a lot of really important **** happening and we got no one manning the ship.

---

Most of this **** is already taken care of. You don't make these decisions last minute.

---

Who are they adding to the 40 man to protect?

Who are they targeting in FA? Who is determining the value of each guy?

Who did are they going to non tender?

Who is deciding who we trade in this one potential trade? BTW who let you know they're only looking at one?

Who are the 1-2 people they want to protect?

---

Also, who handles any new possibilities other teams bring up outside what the Astros identify? We just going to let new possibilities go?

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Yep. Without Click, everyone is just going to stop working. Including our owner (who for some reason you guys seem to think doesn't understand analytics or something).

BMX Bandit said:

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Farmer1906 said:

---

Buck Compton said:

---

Farmer1906 said:

---

Who is handling the following now?

Any early FA signings? FA opened yesterday, TARGET LIST ALREADY IDENTIFIED

40-man roster decisions to protect guys from rule 5 draft (Nov 15 deadline) DONE

Non tender decisions. (Nov 18 deadline) DONE

Winter meetings aka the biggest event for signings and trades of the offseason. (Dec 5-8) CRANE AND SOME OTHERS WILL ATTEND. ONLY LOOKING AT MAYBE ONE POTENTIAL TRADE AND 1-2 FA SIGNINGS

Rule 5 Draft (Dec 7) OVERHYPED. WE AREN'T LIKELY TO DRAFT ANYONE. ONLY 1-2 PEOPLE WE NEED TO PROTECT.

There is a lot of really important **** happening and we got no one manning the ship.

---

Most of this **** is already taken care of. You don't make these decisions last minute.

---

Who are they adding to the 40 man to protect?

Who are they targeting in FA? Who is determining the value of each guy?

Who did are they going to non tender?

Who is deciding who we trade in this one potential trade? BTW who let you know they're only looking at one?

Who are the 1-2 people they want to protect?

---

What point to you think this makes?

If he is right and this has already been done, the poster isn't going to know the answers to these.

I'd bet decisions on 40 man roster and tenders have already been made. I'm with you on free agency decisions. "go get this big name" is the easy part. its signing the fill ins that you really need a GM in place for.

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Agree on the grind of free agency being the smaller name guys, but we don't have many "fill-ins" to sign this year. The bulk of our roster is controlled.