Keep in mind - the guy is valuable; and you gotta trade value for value.

Yes, I would do Leiter straight up - but I think Owens + some other prospects is more palatable.

I just think it's so delusional for them to only offer him 6/$75. Yet they're wanting multiple of our top 5 prospects and even more of our top 15. Clearly they don't think he's that valuable or they're just content to let him waste multiple years just to go to FA.

With 3 years of team control as Arb...

For 2022 and 2023 he got 2yrs @ $6.75M for each.

If he continues his current production, he'll get a bump, for sure.

I haven't kept up, so I didn't know they had already exchanged #s. Not sure what the market would bear, but buying out 3 Arb years and stacking 3 years on the down-slope... I agree, I'm probably thinking the Angels ought to jump in here.

J.P. 03 said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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Hmmm. Wonder if they soured on Leiter's ceiling some. He walked a lot of hitters this year. A lot. But I would think it's way too soon to make that judgment, especially after not pitching much for 2 years.

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The Battered Rangers Fan in me wants to say that the quickest way to raise a pitching prospect's ceiling is to trade him away, usually for someone who doesn't pan out.

That said, I agree…it feels way too early to give up on Leiter.

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Yeah, while the walks are concerning, his K/innings ratio was tasty. It screams future dominant starter as long as he can get those BBs down

Saw a ranking of closers put out yesterday and to see his name in the 2 slot pissed me off.

I saw that too! Absolutely!!

All just to get no hit by him the next season!

investorAg83 said:

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Saw a ranking of closers put out yesterday and to see his name in the 2 slot pissed me off.

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I'm with you on that. The Rangers had a guy with virtually unhittable stuff and traded him for a sack of potato chips that had already been opened.

thegoodolag15 said:

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investorAg83 said:

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Saw a ranking of closers put out yesterday and to see his name in the 2 slot pissed me off.

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I'm with you on that. The Rangers had a guy with virtually unhittable stuff and traded him for a sack of potato chips that had already been opened.

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I hated the trade the day it happened. I hate it even more now.

One of my biggest complaints about JD was his approach to acquiring pitching. He seemed to be willing to go out and get a legit bat, but when it came to pitching it was always retreads and reclamation projects. With CY, you see a clear emphasis placed on premier pitching.

Maybe ownership had something to do with it, but it drove me crazy every off season knowing that if we signed or acquired a pitcher, it was going to be a Jordan Lyles type. Even Lynn and Gibson were question marks when they came to the Rangers, and we just lucked out getting a career season out of Gibson.

While I'd like to see Reynolds in a Rangers uniform, I really hope we don't give up our top pitching prospects to do it.

Do NOT like giving up Leiter this soon. We seem to always squander home grown pitching and don't know when the last time we even had a home grown perennial all star period. Elvis and even that is generous.

Jimmy McNulty said:

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Do NOT like giving up Leiter this soon. We seem to always squander home grown pitching and don't know when the last time we even had a home grown perennial all star period. Elvis and even that is generous.

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I wouldn't count Elvis, we acquired him from the Braves. Gallo was probably the best we've done in recent memory. IMO you almost have to go back to Kinsler.

I looked it up and Kinsler made the all stars three times in 8 years as a Ranger but I wouldn't put him as an elite player (I know you weren't arguing that). He was cool though the few times I ran into him at bars.

Gallo is and was Gallo. I'd be interested to see how Gallo's career changes with the new rule changes for shifts.

Jimmy McNulty said:

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I looked it up and Kinsler made the all stars three times in 8 years as a Ranger but I wouldn't put him as an elite player (I know you weren't arguing that). He was cool though the few times I ran into him at bars.

Gallo is and was Gallo. I'd be interested to see how Gallo's career changes with the new rule changes for shifts.

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The rule changes are why I really wouldn't have minded them giving him a one year contract and see how things play out.

Quincey P. Morris said:

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Jimmy McNulty said:

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I looked it up and Kinsler made the all stars three times in 8 years as a Ranger but I wouldn't put him as an elite player (I know you weren't arguing that). He was cool though the few times I ran into him at bars.

Gallo is and was Gallo. I'd be interested to see how Gallo's career changes with the new rule changes for shifts.

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The rule changes are why I really wouldn't have minded them giving him a one year contract and see how things play out.

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It would need to be one year at veteran minimum

The last thing the Rangers lineup needs is more swing and miss, and that's really what Gallo brings to the table more than anything else. What you would get is Calhoun from last season, with a few more solo HRs, a lower average or similar, and a lot more Ks. No thanks....I'm not in favor of the "let's get the band back together" method of constructing a roster.

I'm super high on Reynolds, and if the trade is Leiter + a couple of 17/18 year old prospects in rookie ball I'd do it. Even if Leiter is a future all star, Reynolds is a today all star at a huge position of need. The Dodgers have shown us the path over the past few years, depth wins over 162 and right now our outfield consists of one semi consistent performer in Adolis Garcia.

As constructed with DeGrom and the rebuilt pitching staff, this team could compete this year. Bring in Reynolds now and then be ready at the deadline to find a rental player to finish out the outfield depth if the team is in serious contention.

Obviously pre-arb stars are the best things in the world to have on your team for the value they give in exchange for such low pay, but the problem is that it's nearly impossible to find those guys. Maybe Leiter will be that guy, maybe not. My lifelong Rangers fandom has taught me that our prospects usually don't work out, so I'd rather the bird in the hand rather than two in the bush.

(Also as noted, he really struggled to throw strikes last year at AA, it's not like he dominated with a sub 2 ERA and paved the way for him to come into Arlington this year, guys who stall in the minors usually stall because either there is something wrong with the arm or the stuff just isn't playing the way it did against lesser competition.)

He walked a lot of guys, but it was his first year and they sent him immediately to a challenging level LOL. I also said his K count was extremely impressive, which it was. That's a dude with nasty MLB level stuff, just gotta learn how to harness it. Year 1.

Reading over what I wrote I can admit that came out wrong, I did not mean to indicate that he is currently stalled in the minors, but if he goes back to AA again this year and repeats those results, I'd be willing to say at that point that 2 years at AA without improvement starts to indicate that his ceiling might not be as high as we think.

This is his stat line from last year

3-10 5.54 ERA 23 G 22 GS 92.2 innings 88 hits 69 runs 57 earned runs 11 HR 56 BB 109 K 1.55 WHIP

There is a reason he dropped from a top 15 prospect to mid 40s in baseball after that line.

It's one thing for an 18 year old adjusting to pro ball and growing into his body, but Leiter was sold as being close to big league ready and a nearly refined product. So even though it was his 1st year in pro ball, I don't think it's crazy to be at least a little worried that he's not going to be who we thought he could be. I followed him pretty closely last year, and beyond the walks and ERA, the problem was that he ran his pitch count up basically every single start. He averaged like 4 IP per start and that doesn't bode well for helping the big club win unless he can push that number at least over 5.

My main point here is that there is obvious risk in trading Leiter because he could be great, but I'm not 100% sure he'll be great. My confidence number is more like 49% after last year. The Rangers know him better than anyone I'd hope, and they probably are also doing this same calculus. Is he going to be a star, or is he just a mid rotation starter. If they think he's mid rotation, you trade him now and don't look back.

He got 5 starts in August and his numbers improved a lot. K/BB ratio doubled. WHIP and ERA both dropped a lot.

His WHIP was 1.44 in those August starts you are talking about, that 1.44 number in his "good" month would have been dead last among all qualified starting pitchers in baseball last year if he sustained that over the course of the year.

So while it was an improvement, it just highlights how inconsistent the rest of the season was for him.

And following those "good" August starts were two disastrous starts in September so it's a bit hard to make an argument that he figured it out late in the season.

I want him to be great, I've spent my whole life rooting for the Rangers and nothing would make me happier than for us to figure out how to develop aces in the minors, but maybe after 30 years of watching us struggle to do that, I'm more inclined to pessimism.

I'm a big Reynolds fan. I'd love to see him in a Rangers uni. But as much as I like him, I'd rather keep our pitching and sign Adam Duvall or Mancini. Or see if what we have can actually produce enough.

I think, given our history with these types of highly ranked prospects and his numbers this season, I understand your pessimism. But it's your opinion. I know you hope you're wrong and so does everyone else.

But don't forget just how drastic of a leap in competition it is to even jump from SEC ball to AA ball.

Lefty RP Brett Martin has surgery, offer Matt Moore 2 for 8mil and close up that bullpen piece.

https://www.mlb.com/news/rangers-agree-with-hearn-martin-hernandez-lowe#:~:text=The%20Rangers%20agreed%20to%20terms,they%20won%20over%20Lee%20Stevens.

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The Rangers agreed to terms with all five arbitration-eligible players on Friday: left-handers Taylor Hearn and Brett Martin, right-hander Jonathan Hernndez, first baseman Nathaniel Lowe and catcher Mitch Garver.

The Rangers have not gone to arbitration since 2000, a hearing they won over Lee Stevens.

Lowe earned the largest of the deals, at $4,050,000, according to a source. Lowe notched career highs in all four slash categories (.302/.358/.492/.851), home runs (27), RBIs (76), hits (179) and total bases (292) in 2022 en route to his first American League Silver Slugger Award. He joined Mark Teixeira, who captured the award in back-to-back seasons (2004 and 2005), as the only Texas first basemen to win the award.

Hearn will earn $1,462,500 in 2023, according to a source. The lefty opened the season in the Rangers' rotation but pitched to a 6.25 ERA in 13 games. After he was moved to the bullpen, he finished with a 3.51 ERA over 18 games.

Garver, in his first year with the Rangers, struggled with a forearm injury that ultimately resulted in July's season-ending surgery to repair an injured flexor tendon in his right arm. He slashed .207/.298/.404 in 54 games before the surgery.

Last season, Hernndez pitched for the first time since 2020, making his return from Tommy John surgery. He will earn $995,000 in his first year of arbitration after posting a 2.97 ERA in 29 relief appearances.

Rounding out the trio of relievers, Martin will earn $1,275,000. According to sources close to the club, Martin's health was addressed during the salary negotiation; he will undergo surgery on his left shoulder next week. The timeline for his return is unclear, but he is expected to miss some of the 2023 season.

Martin posted a 4.14 ERA out of the bullpen in 2022, but landed on the IL with a strained left shoulder in late September. He last pitched on Sept. 16.

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