2022 HoF
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Last: 2 yr ago by Fuzzy Dunlop
I'd be shocked if Big Papi doesn't get in on his first ballot.
My personal ballot this year would likely be Ortiz, ARod, Bonds, Clemens and Schilling. I think I've come around on being ok with steroids in the Hall.
The rest of this year's ballot is full of Hall of Very Good in my mind
My personal ballot this year would likely be Ortiz, ARod, Bonds, Clemens and Schilling. I think I've come around on being ok with steroids in the Hall.
The rest of this year's ballot is full of Hall of Very Good in my mind
I think only Ortiz gets in. Ortiz is iffy because he did fail a drug test but the Player's Association and the league say it wasn't a failed test. It was supposedly an OTC supplement that popped him positive. However, his numbers certainly changed from 2003 onward.
I'm against known/highly suspect PED players in the hall so that excludes ARod, Clemens, and Bonds.
I think Schilling should be in but he's pissed off all the writers so it isn't happening.
I'm a small Hall so I was fine last year that no one went in. I'd be fine with no one this year.
I'm against known/highly suspect PED players in the hall so that excludes ARod, Clemens, and Bonds.
I think Schilling should be in but he's pissed off all the writers so it isn't happening.
I'm a small Hall so I was fine last year that no one went in. I'd be fine with no one this year.
Ortiz is such a weird case. He was listed as someone who failed the drug test in 2003. He had a second prime from age 35 to 40. He was only a DH. Red flags all over the place. His career OPS+ & OPS are less than Berkman. Yet he skates by no big deal. He's a potential first ballot. Blows my mind.
Berkman and Wagner should both be in based on comparables already enshrined.
If he didn't play for the Red Sox he wouldn't be first-ballot.
What have ye done to surpass man?
Agreed.Ag4life80 said:
Berkman and Wagner should both be in based on comparables already enshrined.
If you believe relievers and want to draw the line at Wagner I wouldn't be mad at you. But when you have let in Smith, Eckersley, Fingers, Sutter then Wagner should be in.
Career #s
2.31 ERA
2.73 FIP
2.76 xFIP
2.27 SIERA
33.2% K%
.184 AVG
1.00 WHIP
vs Smith (one example)
3.03 ERA
2.93 FIP
N/A xFIP
N/A SIERA
23.2% K%
.232 AVG
1.26 WHIP
Not only that, he's extremely likable. I've been a big fan of his for years. That shouldn't truly factor into HOF status.Rooster4Ag said:
If he didn't play for the Red Sox he wouldn't be first-ballot.
It's equally as fun to look at the bottom of the ballot. Two people voted for AJ Pierzynski
Farmer1906 said:Not only that, he's extremely likable. I've been a big fan of his for years. That shouldn't truly factor into HOF status.Rooster4Ag said:
If he didn't play for the Red Sox he wouldn't be first-ballot.
Except it literally is a popularity contest.
It is disgusting that the HoF does not include the HRs leader, the Cy Young leader and the all-time hits leader.
I love baseball, but the holier-than-thou baseball writers are turning the Hall into a joke.
I love baseball, but the holier-than-thou baseball writers are turning the Hall into a joke.
I would like to understand how voters justify voting for Ortiz, but not Bonds. I get not voting for Bonds because of PEDs, but Ortiz also tested positive, so if you're going to vote for Ortiz then PEDs obviously aren't a concern for you. Statistically, it's not even close. Bonds was hands down the better player. I don't see how someone can justify voting for Ortiz, but then say Bonds doesn't deserve it because of PEDs.
this is where the popularity contest / likeability comes into play.
Bonds, Clemens, and Pete Rose would be in the Hall if they would show humility or contrition or take a mea culpa, etc.., But they are a stubborn lot.
it's still amazing 10 to 15 years later...that really only Andy Pettitte confessed his sins and asked for mercy (so to speak)
Bonds, Clemens, and Pete Rose would be in the Hall if they would show humility or contrition or take a mea culpa, etc.., But they are a stubborn lot.
it's still amazing 10 to 15 years later...that really only Andy Pettitte confessed his sins and asked for mercy (so to speak)
And the all time strike to walk ratio
What have ye done to surpass man?
Anyone else ever see the Bonds 30 for 30? Biggest takeaway I got from watching that was hearing the two black writers who are HOF voters basically say if Bonds wasn't black he's be look at in a different light and he'd have more votes to get. Tough to be a black man in baseball, blah blah blah then at the very end they both admit they've never voted for him on the ballot…. Unbelievable
Yeah, cuz being white really helped Clemens get in. So sick of the race card at every turn.
I'd imagine some writers have a personal vendetta against Bonds as well.
The baseball HOF is filled with admitted cheaters, so that's not what's keeping them out. This is about a bunch of sanctimonious nerds who are mad that they refused to bend the knee, plain and simple.
These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.-Thomas Paine
Baseball writers are the worst
Those dinosaurs shouldn't vote on anything.
Those dinosaurs shouldn't vote on anything.
-*
I hope Clemens never gets in. He is a fat,lying, cheating pedophile. Total disgusting pos as a person. F him to hell. Just my opinion.
A Hall of Famer (now deceased) told me if Bonds cheated the game, then he wouldn't get his vote. I imagine he held those same sentiments for others that did the same.
Selig cheated the game
Bonds played on the field that was provided. That field was full of steroid users.
It's not difficult. Selig failed baseball and Bonds is the scape goat.
Bonds played on the field that was provided. That field was full of steroid users.
It's not difficult. Selig failed baseball and Bonds is the scape goat.
-*
Stone44 said:
I hope Clemens never gets in. He is a fat,lying, cheating pedophile. Total disgusting pos as a person. F him to hell. Just my opinion.
This was his last chance. He wont
Correct me I'm wrong but it's always been my understanding that Pete Rose isn't in the HOF because he agreed to a lifetime ban in exchange for not being prosecuted.
He made his own bed.
As for Bonds and Clemens I'm guessing it's not the steroids keeping them out but the flat out lying that doesn't get them the votes. They're awful human beings. Hell Clemens flat out threw his wife under the bus to save his own ass.
I don't feel sorry for them at all.
He made his own bed.
As for Bonds and Clemens I'm guessing it's not the steroids keeping them out but the flat out lying that doesn't get them the votes. They're awful human beings. Hell Clemens flat out threw his wife under the bus to save his own ass.
I don't feel sorry for them at all.
Quote:
I don't feel sorry for them at all.
There's not much to feel sorry for them for. They are "in" via omission in a sense. Everyone knows the only reason they aren't in. It's not like they are going to be forgotten or anything and it's the Hall who has to explain why they aren't in anyway.
"Are the best players in the Hall of Fame? Well, no...".
"Are all cheaters kept out of the Hall? Well, no..."
edit: forgot one:
"Wait...are benefactors of their cheating in the Hall of Fame....like managers, certain league executives who presided over baseball? Well, yeah...."
I don't feel sorry for them either. I just think it is ridiculous not to include players with the best numbers in the Hall.
Is it just about numbers? What's the official criteria? I honestly don't know.
I think it's the basketball HOF that has some aspect of influence on the game.
That's the difference between Ortiz and Bonds and Clemens.
I think it's the basketball HOF that has some aspect of influence on the game.
That's the difference between Ortiz and Bonds and Clemens.
Rooster4Ag said:
If he didn't play for the Red Sox he wouldn't be first-ballot.
The term "first ballot" is one of the dumbest things in sports…. It should be a simple question. Is the guy a HOF or not?
IMO a player should be on the ballot one time. He's either in or out. If there's any doubt than he probably doesn't deserve it. It's not the hall of very good.
Also, the pettiness that's involved with voting is ridiculous. Voters intentionally not voting someone in bc they aren't worthy of a "first ballot". So ****ing dumb
I'm not arguing against Ortiz. He was a hell of a hitter. His postseason performances alone are legendary. That being said, others suspected of steroids have gotten in to the Hall. It seems like there is no real rhyme or reason as to who gets in.
Quote:
That being said, others suspected of steroids have gotten in to the Hall. It seems like there is no real rhyme or reason as to who gets in.
The irony is that the voters actions are reducing the Hall's credibility, not saving it.
I absolutely agree.
Peter Gammons, Ken Rosenthal and Jayson Stark all voted for Bonds and Clemens. Those guys have forgotten more about baseball than many of the other writers know.
If they can see, and they've all been staunch protectors of the game, it just shows how pathetic the other writers are just grandstanding.
Peter Gammons, Ken Rosenthal and Jayson Stark all voted for Bonds and Clemens. Those guys have forgotten more about baseball than many of the other writers know.
If they can see, and they've all been staunch protectors of the game, it just shows how pathetic the other writers are just grandstanding.
Memphis 7 said:
Selig cheated the game
Bonds played on the field that was provided. That field was full of steroid users.
It's not difficult. Selig failed baseball and Bonds is the scape goat.
And yet selig is the one in the HOF somehow
I think the writers fail to remember that steroids don't help you hit the ball. Barry Bonds 762 HR could have all been outs and his career OBP would be .384 which is more than Ortiz .380.
a bit of revisionist history on this thread...
steroids & HGH helped hitters tremendously...that's why many of them were using them.
players were by & large able to avoid the natural drop-off that happens to a hitter in their 30's.
-----
just one example of hundreds...
there was a player in 1996 at age 27...that could only hit 12 home runs playing a full season in a midwest hitter's paradise.
5 years later in 2001...at age 32...he's banging out 37 home runs at a west coast pitcher's park.
his OPS increased by a stunning 320 points
steroids & HGH helped hitters tremendously...that's why many of them were using them.
players were by & large able to avoid the natural drop-off that happens to a hitter in their 30's.
-----
just one example of hundreds...
there was a player in 1996 at age 27...that could only hit 12 home runs playing a full season in a midwest hitter's paradise.
5 years later in 2001...at age 32...he's banging out 37 home runs at a west coast pitcher's park.
his OPS increased by a stunning 320 points
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