Oakland City Council vote today may be last straw driving A's away

3,219 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by DannyDuberstein
wbt5845
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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/18/sports/baseball/oakland-athletics-las-vegas.html

Quote:

On Tuesday, the Oakland City Council will vote on the team's term sheet for financing a $12 billion project that would include a new downtown ballpark at Howard Terminal. A yes vote is not binding, because an environmental impact report would still have to be approved in the fall. But a no vote would kill it and signal the end for the Athletics in Oakland.

"If they don't approve it, it's over," Dave Kaval, the team president, said in an interview Friday. "Because basically they've had an opportunity to look at all the different facts and understand, 'Does this make sense?' We're hopeful that it's a yes, but with these things, it's hard to say. We remain apart."

The Athletics have been desperate for years to leave the antiquated Coliseum, which opened for mixed use in 1966 and has been the team's home since 1968. Their lease expires in 2024, so they would not leave immediately. If they go, they would most likely wind up in the same metropolitan area that lured their former co-tenants in the Coliseum, the Raiders, with a new football stadium: Las Vegas.

Major League Baseball has given the A's permission to explore options in Las Vegas, which is also home to the N.H.L.'s Golden Knights. Club officials have made several visits to the city, which would fit geographically into the American League West.

"Thinking of this as a bluff is a mistake," Commissioner Rob Manfred said at the All-Star Game last Tuesday. "This is the decision point for Oakland."
W
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kind of get the feeling that A's ownership will not be upset if the council delivers a 'no' vote
wbt5845
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Well, from what I've read of the negotiations, the A's are asking for everything they could possibly want from the Oakland - because they know they can get it in Vegas. Oakland probably can't afford to go that far.

Remember when everyone hoo-hawed at Arlington for ponying up $500 MM for JerryWorld? The A's are asking for a $12 BILLION public/private partnership. Already, city council members are howling and screaming for affordable housing to be included, environmental add ons, etc. None of that is gonna float. The A's have no interest in funding Oakland's social wellness programs.
Frok
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$12 billion dollars!

Minute Maid Park was built for $250 million albeit that was over 20 years ago. But still, $12 billion is ridiculous. I would let the team walk and just root for the Giants.

strider98
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Oakland and A's mgmt. Truly when azzholes collide.
TXAggie2011
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wbt5845 said:

Well, from what I've read of the negotiations, the A's are asking for everything they could possibly want from the Oakland - because they know they can get it in Vegas. Oakland probably can't afford to go that far.

Remember when everyone hoo-hawed at Arlington for ponying up $500 MM for JerryWorld? The A's are asking for a $12 BILLION public/private partnership. Already, city council members are howling and screaming for affordable housing to be included, environmental add ons, etc. None of that is gonna float. The A's have no interest in funding Oakland's social wellness programs.
Affordable housing has been a part of stadium deals in the US and around the world quite a bit---the Giants have done it right across the Bay, which probably makes it particularly hard for the A's to try to sell the project to Oakland. If that's what makes this fall apart, that'll be too bad.

They may get everything they ask of Las Vegas without much heehawing, but it won't be a $12 billion waterfront development. It'll be a domed stadium next to existing casinos and hotels in the middle of a desert.
Farmer1906
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TXAggie2011 said:

wbt5845 said:

Well, from what I've read of the negotiations, the A's are asking for everything they could possibly want from the Oakland - because they know they can get it in Vegas. Oakland probably can't afford to go that far.

Remember when everyone hoo-hawed at Arlington for ponying up $500 MM for JerryWorld? The A's are asking for a $12 BILLION public/private partnership. Already, city council members are howling and screaming for affordable housing to be included, environmental add ons, etc. None of that is gonna float. The A's have no interest in funding Oakland's social wellness programs.
Affordable housing has been a part of stadium deals in the US and around the world quite a bit---the Giants have done it right across the Bay, which probably makes it particularly hard for the A's to try to sell the project to Oakland. If that's what makes this fall apart, that'll be too bad.

They may get everything they ask of Las Vegas without much heehawing, but it won't be a $12 billion waterfront development. It'll be a domed stadium next to existing casinos and hotels in the middle of a desert.
You make that sound like a bad thing.
TXAggie2011
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Not a bad thing, per se, but it'll be a lot more bland of a ballpark than an outdoor stadium on a waterfront and the A's won't be able to have their hands in other development around their park.

BTW, the Vegas economy is sorta wrecked right now and I know the Raiders are supposedly strongly against a baseball park being anywhere near their stadium, so on further thought, I'm not sure getting a deal done with Vegas would be the smoothest of sailing either.
wbt5845
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Yeah, keep in mind Vegas is but one potential suitor. Vancouver, Portland and Nashville would all kill for the A's. Hell, I bet Austin would be in on that.

But I really think Vegas is the leader in the clubhouse. MLB is holding Nashville over Tampa's head as a potential site for the Rays.
astros4545
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wbt5845 said:

Yeah, keep in mind Vegas is but one potential suitor. Vancouver, Portland and Nashville would all kill for the A's. Hell, I bet Austin would be in on that.

But I really think Vegas is the leader in the clubhouse. MLB is holding Nashville over Tampa's head as a potential site for the Rays.
Nashville and Vegas really seem to be the best options and nothing else is really close
TarponChaser
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Situation where rooting for a natural disaster is actually a potential outcome.
Bonfired
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astros4545 said:

wbt5845 said:

Yeah, keep in mind Vegas is but one potential suitor. Vancouver, Portland and Nashville would all kill for the A's. Hell, I bet Austin would be in on that.

But I really think Vegas is the leader in the clubhouse. MLB is holding Nashville over Tampa's head as a potential site for the Rays.
Nashville and Vegas really seem to be the best options and nothing else is really close
Another feature of those potential moves is that there wouldn't be any need for divisions to be realigned, ...Nashville in the AL East if Tampa were to move there wouldn't be that big of a stretch, and the A's to Vegas (or Portland) is obviously compatible.

If the only move is the A's to Nashville, that'd muddy the waters a bit. Maybe move them to AL Central and bump the Royals to the AL West.

Oakland city council meeting was scheduled to start at 9 AM Pacific time, and I am sure all parties would just like some closure to it. I do get the feeling that A's management won't be all that disappointed if the council says "no."
JWinTX
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astros4545 said:

wbt5845 said:

Yeah, keep in mind Vegas is but one potential suitor. Vancouver, Portland and Nashville would all kill for the A's. Hell, I bet Austin would be in on that.

But I really think Vegas is the leader in the clubhouse. MLB is holding Nashville over Tampa's head as a potential site for the Rays.
Nashville and Vegas really seem to be the best options and nothing else is really close
I'm sure Charlotte would be in the mix, as well
TXAggie2011
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Oakland City council voted 6-1 with one abstention to approve an amended "term sheet." So, there is a deal on the table if the A's want it.

A's President said earlier that what they ultimately voted on wasn't what the A's "agreed" to...technically true but most folks who know a lot more of the details than I do are saying the City conceded a lot more than the A's have ever seemed interested in conceding.
W
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seems like the city council threw the A's a curve ball...

and ownership doesn't know whether to swing at it or take it
Marvin
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Please leave the drums in Oakland.
I love Texas Aggie sports, but I love Texas A&M more.
TXAggie2011
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W said:

seems like the city council threw the A's a curve ball...

and ownership doesn't know whether to swing at it or take it
I don't think Rob Manfred necessarily wants them to make a deal.

For better or worse, he's a pretty hard line negotiator and I don't think he wants to see the A's budge in their own negotiations.
The Lost
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Frok said:

$12 billion dollars!

Minute Maid Park was built for $250 million albeit that was over 20 years ago. But still, $12 billion is ridiculous. I would let the team walk and just root for the Giants.




$12 bill isn't just for the stadium, there's an office park, housing and tons of other developments.
AustinAg2K
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Oakland is always one of the franchises where I can't really tell if it's the ownership or the city that is the problem. It's amazing that Billy Beane keeps that team competitive, because ownership does him no favors. However, the fans in Oakland also don't help encourage the owners to spend money. Back in the late 80s, though, they were top 10 in attendance, so I think it's possible the city will support them if they feel like the management is going to invest in the team. Even with a new stadium, I'm not so sure management will invest.
Schall 02
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Read into the commish's comments. They gone. MLB good with it.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/31850304/oakland-approves-new-ballpark-term-sheet-say-not-effective-path-forward
Ciboag96
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They'll move. Boise A's maybe. Or Nashville A's. I'd vote for Jackson A's Hole.
wbt5845
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Keep in mind a "yes" vote didn't guarantee they'd stay, but a "no" vote guaranteed they'd leave.
MaxPower
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wbt5845 said:

Yeah, keep in mind Vegas is but one potential suitor. Vancouver, Portland and Nashville would all kill for the A's. Hell, I bet Austin would be in on that.

But I really think Vegas is the leader in the clubhouse. MLB is holding Nashville over Tampa's head as a potential site for the Rays.
Yeah Portland seems like a really stable place to move to right now..
TXAggie2011
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MaxPower said:

wbt5845 said:

Yeah, keep in mind Vegas is but one potential suitor. Vancouver, Portland and Nashville would all kill for the A's. Hell, I bet Austin would be in on that.

But I really think Vegas is the leader in the clubhouse. MLB is holding Nashville over Tampa's head as a potential site for the Rays.
Yeah Portland seems like a really stable place to move to right now..
Portland supports their pro sports teams like crazy and has a growing population. If a stadium deal is made, it would be an attractive market
strider98
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TXAggie2011 said:

MaxPower said:

wbt5845 said:

Yeah, keep in mind Vegas is but one potential suitor. Vancouver, Portland and Nashville would all kill for the A's. Hell, I bet Austin would be in on that.

But I really think Vegas is the leader in the clubhouse. MLB is holding Nashville over Tampa's head as a potential site for the Rays.
Yeah Portland seems like a really stable place to move to right now..
Portland supports their pro sports teams like crazy and has a growing population. If a stadium deal is made, it would be an attractive market
are you actually paying attention to the news in Portland recently?
TXAggie2011
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Yes
W
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The Lost said:



$12 bill isn't just for the stadium, there's an office park, housing and tons of other developments.
yes, and that's what's so strange. The Oakland Athletics are a baseball team...whose purpose is to win the world series.

why are they getting involved in the building of 3,000 residential housing units?

business school 101...stick to your core competencies.

walk away from all that other stuff
DannyDuberstein
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Yeah, this proposal is WAY too muddled up. These developments around new stadiums are consistently slow, more painful, underwhelming, and some never happen. Plans are great, but if I'm the As, I want a stadium deal that I'm happy with no matter what, so you start with that and lock that down. If you can't do that, then Vegas baby Vegas
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