I'm not really sure how anybody that has watched more than one game can have the opinion that signs do not come from the dugout.

Fenrir said:

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I'm not really sure how anybody that has watched more than one game can have the opinion that signs do not come from the dugout.

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What would come from the dugout would be a reference to the play card the catcher is wearing. You also aren't accounting for pitches that the pitcher shakes off. You guys are just making a bigger case for how ineffective sign stealing can be.

Fenrir said:

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I'm not really sure how anybody that has watched more than one game can have the opinion that signs do not come from the dugout.

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Not always. There's a reason old catchers who aren't that good at catching anymore still have a job.

DallasAg 94 said:

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03_Aggie said:

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Fenrir said:

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I'm not really sure how anybody that has watched more than one game can have the opinion that signs do not come from the dugout.

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What would come from the dugout would be a reference to the play card the catcher is wearing. You also aren't accounting for pitches that the pitcher shakes off. You guys are just making a bigger case for how ineffective sign stealing can be.

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So, your argument is that since a pitcher **might** call off a pitch, pitches are not being called from the dugout?! That's just dumb.

How is it less effective? The bench coach sends the pitch to the catcher... the catcher relays the sign to the pitcher.

You really don't know that happens?

I'll let you in on another tip... When a team cycles 14-15 SPs, and 20-25 RPs in a season... there is no way the C is going to know them well enough to know what to call, based on hitter.

I'll let you in on another tip... a typical catcher calls less than 120 G/season. That means they have a backup calling 40-50 games. You think those backup catchers are calling games?

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Baseball is a game of numbers. Generally, great pitchers want catchers with the best experience, who are more likely to know hitters tendencies. We aren't talking in absolutes here, baseball is never that way. Of course a catcher doesn't play 162 games, but with ace pitchers it isn't rare that they only throw to one catcher all year if possible.

ETA: if you think most calls are coming from the bench, you're just plain wrong. There really isn't any way to try and argue that.

DallasAg 94 said:

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03_Aggie said:

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Fenrir said:

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I'm not really sure how anybody that has watched more than one game can have the opinion that signs do not come from the dugout.

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What would come from the dugout would be a reference to the play card the catcher is wearing. You also aren't accounting for pitches that the pitcher shakes off. You guys are just making a bigger case for how ineffective sign stealing can be.

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So, your argument is that since a pitcher **might** call off a pitch, pitches are not being called from the dugout?! That's just dumb.

How is it less effective? The bench coach sends the pitch to the catcher... the catcher relays the sign to the pitcher.

You really don't know that happens?

I'll let you in on another tip... When a team cycles 14-15 SPs, and 20-25 RPs in a season... there is no way the C is going to know them well enough to know what to call, based on hitter.

I'll let you in on another tip... a typical catcher calls less than 120 G/season. That means they have a backup calling 40-50 games. You think those backup catchers are calling games?

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I'll let you in on a little tip, no where did I say calls don't come from the dugout. Trying to intercept a signal from the dugout would be much less effective because most of them correspond to something on a catcher's wristband.