So what your saying is that other teams can benefit in the draft by turning on each other and opening pandoras box?
*****Official 2019/2020 Houston Astros offseason thread*****
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Last: 4 yr ago by BMX Bandit
Teddy Perkins said:Quote:
MLB docked the Astros their regular first-round selection in this June's draft, which would have been the 30th overall pick, and their regular second-round selection, which before the sanctions was slated to be 67th overall because of the competitive balance round that is sandwiched between the first and second rounds.
This means the Astros' first 2020 draft pick will now come in the competitive balance round that follows the second round, which should fall somewhere in the 70th-75th overall range. That is the draft choice they received as compensation for losing free agent starter Gerrit Cole, who declined their one-year, $17.8 million qualifying offer a month before he signed with the Yankees for nine years and $324 million.
After the comp pick, the Astros' next selection in the 2020 draft will be their regular third-rounder, the final pick of that round, which should fall in the 105th-110th overall range. Almost as detrimental at losing the picks themselves, the Astros also forfeited the bonus pool money attached to their regular first- and second-round picks. Those values have not yet been released by MLB. But for reference, the 30th selection in the 2019 draft came with a slot value of $2.37 million and the 67th pick had a slot value of just less than $1 million.
Because of the forfeitures by the Astros, the first competitive balance round and second-round picks for the rest of the teams will move up by one selection each. Each of the other 29 teams will also have slightly more bonus pool money with which to work than they previously would have.
That will be the case in 2021, as well, when the Astros will again be without their regular first- and second-rounders. Both of those are likely to also be late-round picks given the strength of their 2020 roster. And say next offseason they were to sign a free agent who had declined a qualifying offer from his previous team, the second-round pick they would lose for the signing would push their sign-stealing forfeiture to the second round of the 2022 draft.
It will be at least two to three years before the Astros feel the effects of losing four first- and second-round selections, which means a vast majority of the players culpable in the sign-stealing scheme won't even be impacted by this particular aspect of the punishment. Nor will they feel the $5 million fine Manfred levied against the team.
Well, if the Astros perform another tank-to-trophy maneuver, I guess the window opens in 2022.
I do think it's funny that so many people associate anger with effectiveness. Do you want to want to work for a boss that yells at you for mistakes? That is a bad manager.The Beef01 said:
Whatever they do, I want to see the manager be effective at working with players like Hinch...but you have the opportunity to really move forward on AJ's biggest weakness of really being a poor fundamentals and holding guys accountable for having their head out of a game. Without this stuff having happened, the thing that was going to eventually do Hinch in was a bad season with an accumulation of guys being thrown out on the bases and sloppy play as a signature of the team.
I guess what I'm saying is...for the love of God, let it be someone who might actually look pissed when someone gets thrown out by a mile trying to leg a double into a triple, etc.
You think Hinch would get fired for guys getting thrown out on the bases? No, he would have gotten fired for losing. That's it. How much he gets upset or not does not determine if he gets fired. the W/L record does.
No doubt getting thrown out on the bases is frustrating, but how do you know it wasn't Hinch that gave them the green light to be aggressive? How many extra bases did we steal with that aggressiveness? If that's the approach, Hinch and the organization had, they were probably OK to a certain degree with getting thrown out because the odds still favored them. If that's the plan, why would he get angry and yell at people all the time over it? Certainly there were situations where I'm sure there were teaching sessions afterward.
I do agree with you that there were times where Hinch could have helped the team focus a bit more. They did seem to swoon at certain points. I think the manager can rectify that without yelling and going on a tirade though.
This idea of cleaning house is idiotic because no matter how "clean" you get it, the folks most responsible for buy in and execution are STILL ON THE FIELD!!!
I wonder if Phil Garner would be on the possible managerial list. He did well with the guys in the 2000s. He had good relationships with the players, and still has ties to the Astros. The question is: could he relate to today's players and ind incorporate analytics? You know the guys respect the resumes of Biggio and Baggy. I bet they'd respect Garner's too.
Besides, Garner seems to be of the mentality of the players. He's come out publicly and called Mike Fiers a "rat."
Besides, Garner seems to be of the mentality of the players. He's come out publicly and called Mike Fiers a "rat."
Yes. Astros have been to 2 World Series and an ALCS in 3 years. Even though this is feels like a total rest, you would love to keep continuity as much as possible.CFTXAG10 said:
Initially I was against Espada, primarily because I didn't know much about the guy and judgment was a little foggy trying to sort through wtf just happened when Crane dropped Hinch and Luhnow
The more I think about it the more I like the idea of sticking with Espada at least for this year as manager:
- already has good relationships with current players/staff - can enhance the us vs. the world mentality
- has been highly sought after in interviews by other teams, most notably the Giants (called for 2nd interview)
- he is Puerto Rican, no explanation necessary
- it wouldn't be such a drastic change this close to spring training, he is a familiar face/voice the guys can rally behind
Chandler Rome is milking this incident to get some click-traffic. Of course that is what most of sports media is now.
There really isn't anything left to say. He fired the manager and general manager. That is drastic and there won't be anything more significant done.
Chandler knows this but he needs something to talk about.
There really isn't anything left to say. He fired the manager and general manager. That is drastic and there won't be anything more significant done.
Chandler knows this but he needs something to talk about.
Yea, he's awful and emblematic of our journalistic times. The Chron can't afford an adult Astros beat writer, so they hired a 25 year old former LSU frat boy who did an internship there one time. His Twitter is just designed to troll Astros fans with clickbait headlines and out of context quotes. Had to stop following him. I don't consider him a source for Astros news anymore and I hope no one else on here does either.iBrad said:
Excellent job of trying to incriminate guys not named in the investigations and negatively impact their careers. What a chode.
Yeah, I mean, I get the players had no way of knowing the harshness of the end outcome, and were just wanting to do stuff other teams were doing to gain a competitive advantage, but I do think some of the stuff that's reported to come out from the investigations was entirely stupid.
One of the things I think was really dumb was the "we would have stopped if AJ told us to stop." That is just a load of BS and hurt AJ more than they thought it would help. He bashed two monitors in, what do you think his stance was and what he wanted you to do?
I'm glad I don't know who said those comments because I'm a little sour towards the players at the moment. I will still root for them, and want them to come out and destroy the league, but at the moment I still can't help but feel they got away a little unscathed.
One of the things I think was really dumb was the "we would have stopped if AJ told us to stop." That is just a load of BS and hurt AJ more than they thought it would help. He bashed two monitors in, what do you think his stance was and what he wanted you to do?
I'm glad I don't know who said those comments because I'm a little sour towards the players at the moment. I will still root for them, and want them to come out and destroy the league, but at the moment I still can't help but feel they got away a little unscathed.
Frok said:
Chandler Rome is milking this incident to get some click-traffic. Of course that is what most of sports media is now.
There really isn't anything left to say. He fired the manager and general manager. That is drastic and there won't be anything more significant done.
Chandler knows this but he needs something to talk about.
Chandler Rome is another guy right alongside the National guys like Ken Rosenthal and Jeff Passan who can to **** themselves for helping make this story as big as it is.
It's amazing to me that the Astros can't even rely on their hometown paper for some positive press. The NY press goes to bat to protect the precious Yanks, yet the these douchbags from the Chronicle are more than willing to add fuel to the fire whenever there is a negative story about the Astros (see Evan Drellich).
All these losers can go **** themselves.
He's a deek and worthless as a journalist/beat writer.
Everytime I hear him on the radio he's smug, condescending, and offers no insight to anything whatsoever. Almost like he hates the Astros, the fans, and his job in general.
Which I think is the case because I'm convinced he's just using this gig as a stepping stone to get propelled elsewhere.
For us as fans that sucks because the local beat writer should be the go to guy who's in the know and a reliable source for the happenings of the club. He's anything but that.
Everytime I hear him on the radio he's smug, condescending, and offers no insight to anything whatsoever. Almost like he hates the Astros, the fans, and his job in general.
Which I think is the case because I'm convinced he's just using this gig as a stepping stone to get propelled elsewhere.
For us as fans that sucks because the local beat writer should be the go to guy who's in the know and a reliable source for the happenings of the club. He's anything but that.
https://www.nj.com/yankees/2020/01/mlb-rumors-did-red-soxs-alex-cora-drop-hints-carlos-beltran-helped-yankees-cheat-in-2019.html
Happy to have the Red Sox and their media/fanbase on our side in the push-back against wide-spread electronic sign stealing a few years ago. When Astros fans retweeted that Cora press conference video a few days ago, no one cared. But now that Carrabis and a few others have tweeted it out, it's getting some traction.
At the very least, it's looking really bad for the Yankees that they hired him as a special adviser in 2019. I think the Yankees could get a harsh punishment if 1) they hired Beltran with full knowledge of his past reputation/crimes and 2) he implemented an illegal scheme after all the warnings and rules issued before the 2019 season. But the first would be difficult to prove and the second would require a snake.
Happy to have the Red Sox and their media/fanbase on our side in the push-back against wide-spread electronic sign stealing a few years ago. When Astros fans retweeted that Cora press conference video a few days ago, no one cared. But now that Carrabis and a few others have tweeted it out, it's getting some traction.
At the very least, it's looking really bad for the Yankees that they hired him as a special adviser in 2019. I think the Yankees could get a harsh punishment if 1) they hired Beltran with full knowledge of his past reputation/crimes and 2) he implemented an illegal scheme after all the warnings and rules issued before the 2019 season. But the first would be difficult to prove and the second would require a snake.
I would love for this to come around to bite the Yankees in the a** somehow. Whether it be a vengeful Cora, or some other rat, somebody needs to expose them in a way that Manfred cannot just sweep it under the rug. Same goes for any other team that thinks they are out of the woods even though there are plenty who were doing the same s***.
https://nypost.com/2020/01/15/mark-teixeira-mets-must-fire-carlos-beltran-after-cheating-scandal/
Teixeira is now calling for the Mets to can Beltran.
Teixeira is now calling for the Mets to can Beltran.
I am not holding my breath anything else major happens, especially to NY. If anything the Mets might fire Beltran.
I wish MLB would launch investigations into every team. I feel like they would find about 10-15 teams doing similar things as the Astros and it would take the heat off of us.
Manfred may end up hating Fiers just as much as we do.
tjholley16 said:
I wish MLB would launch investigations into every team. I feel like they would find about 10-15 teams doing similar things as the Astros and it would take the heat off of us.
No way the league does that. They are still attempting to paint this as an issue that existed primarily with the Astros and the Red Sox as a result of Cora being in both places. They don't want this to be seen as a league wide issue that is only going to bring bad press and potentially decreased interest in the sport.
In addition, there is no way in hell the league is going to willingly rope in the Yankees and Dodgers, and all the ratings and money they bring, into this scandal. It's bad enough the Red Sox are involved, but the main Astros afflicted culprit is gone (Cora) which sets up the league for a soft punishment on the Red Sox once the their investigation ends.
The only way they thing expands to other teams, like the Yankees, is if there is a national outcry that forced the league into it, as occurred with the Astros. We all know the national reporters won't do it and the Astros affiliated media are too busy trashing the team they report on to look elsewhere. The only hope is if the Boston media has a big enough bark (I'm skeptical) to force the league to look into the Yankees and other teams.
It's possible. Not likely. I mean look at all the hell that was raised in the MLB when Canseco released his steroid information. That opened a whole can of worms and indicted a lot of playersccaggie05 said:tjholley16 said:
I wish MLB would launch investigations into every team. I feel like they would find about 10-15 teams doing similar things as the Astros and it would take the heat off of us.
No way the league does that. They are still attempting to paint this as an issue that existed primarily with the Astros and the Red Sox as a result of Cora being in both places. They don't want this to be seen as a league wide issue that is only going to bring bad press and potentially decreased interest in the sport.
In addition, there is no way in hell the league is going to willingly rope in the Yankees and Dodgers, and all the ratings and money they bring, into this scandal. It's bad enough the Red Sox are involved, but the main Astros afflicted culprit is gone (Cora) which sets up the league for a soft punishment on the Red Sox once the their investigation ends.
The only way they thing expands to other teams, like the Yankees, is if there is a national outcry that forced the league into it, as occurred with the Astros. We all know the national reporters won't do it and the Astros affiliated media are too busy trashing the team they report on to look elsewhere. The only hope is if the Boston media has a big enough bark (I'm skeptical) to force the league to look into the Yankees and other teams.
Agreed with all the takes above on both sides. I think the natural progression from here is that pressure is going to build on the Mets to fire Beltran and they will ultimately do so. I don't think they have much of a choice at this point. They probably wouldn't have hired him in the first place hindsight 20/20.
From there, it will be interesting to see how much attention gets shifted to the Yankees and their association with Beltran from 2014-2016 and 2019, specifically why they hired him in 2019 and what exactly his role was, what he implemented, etc. Hopefully enough pressure will build for MLB to open an investigation into the Yankees 2019 season, then get ~10 Cashman direct reports and ~15 position players (including Ellsbury) separately into a room and see if they tell a consistent story. Full immunity for honesty.
But like others have said, I'm not optimistic about Yankee justice being served.
From there, it will be interesting to see how much attention gets shifted to the Yankees and their association with Beltran from 2014-2016 and 2019, specifically why they hired him in 2019 and what exactly his role was, what he implemented, etc. Hopefully enough pressure will build for MLB to open an investigation into the Yankees 2019 season, then get ~10 Cashman direct reports and ~15 position players (including Ellsbury) separately into a room and see if they tell a consistent story. Full immunity for honesty.
But like others have said, I'm not optimistic about Yankee justice being served.
tjholley16 said:It's possible. Not likely. I mean look at all the hell that was raised in the MLB when Canseco released his steroid information. That opened a whole can of worms and indicted a lot of playersccaggie05 said:tjholley16 said:
I wish MLB would launch investigations into every team. I feel like they would find about 10-15 teams doing similar things as the Astros and it would take the heat off of us.
No way the league does that. They are still attempting to paint this as an issue that existed primarily with the Astros and the Red Sox as a result of Cora being in both places. They don't want this to be seen as a league wide issue that is only going to bring bad press and potentially decreased interest in the sport.
In addition, there is no way in hell the league is going to willingly rope in the Yankees and Dodgers, and all the ratings and money they bring, into this scandal. It's bad enough the Red Sox are involved, but the main Astros afflicted culprit is gone (Cora) which sets up the league for a soft punishment on the Red Sox once the their investigation ends.
The only way they thing expands to other teams, like the Yankees, is if there is a national outcry that forced the league into it, as occurred with the Astros. We all know the national reporters won't do it and the Astros affiliated media are too busy trashing the team they report on to look elsewhere. The only hope is if the Boston media has a big enough bark (I'm skeptical) to force the league to look into the Yankees and other teams.
It's going to take lots of pressure to force Manfred to act. His mindset was made clear when he said back when the Astros investigation first started that he has no reason to believe any other team is involved despite already plenty of rumors that said otherwise.
That's the silver lining about the Red Sox being involved. They are one of the league's major franchises and their fan base and media will not stay silent if they feel the Yankees are getting away with something here. I just hope it's enough.
There will be a former player that misses the publicity or needs some cash that will come forth with something. Just give it time.
Absolutely agree. Which is why the folks leaking info to journalists or just speaking from their own social media accounts need to be no holds barred.Quote:
It's going to take lots of pressure to force Manfred to act. His mindset was made clear when he said back when the Astros investigation first started that he has no reason to believe any other team is involved despite already plenty of rumors that said otherwise.
Hell, they wouldn't stay silent even if the Yankees were not involved, but since they are, the Boston media has an incentive to go all in on em. My only fear is that Manfred may try to extinguish the flames by suspending Cora and no further punishment to the BoSox in exchange for a hush hush agreement moving forward. Meaning no ratting on NY or others from their side.Quote:
That's the silver lining about the Red Sox being involved. They are one of the league's major franchises and their fan base and media will not stay silent if they feel the Yankees are getting away with something here. I just hope it's enough.
Especially after CC came out and said they were cheated out of two titles.CFTXAG10 said:
I would love for this to come around to bite the Yankees in the a** somehow. Whether it be a vengeful Cora, or some other rat, somebody needs to expose them in a way that Manfred cannot just sweep it under the rug. Same goes for any other team that thinks they are out of the woods even though there are plenty who were doing the same s***.
I like Jomboy, but man it would feel so good to make that guy eat some crow.
Manfred after all of this stuff coming out after he thought punishment to the Astros would quell the outcries:
Seriously though, Manfred had to know implicating Cora and launching an investigation into the Red Sox would not stop backlash.
They should have just manned up and said we're investigating every team mentioned as doing something similar if they were going to be to scared to stand on their own rules change before the 2019 season.
They should have just manned up and said we're investigating every team mentioned as doing something similar if they were going to be to scared to stand on their own rules change before the 2019 season.
Maybe I'm just too invested in the Astros, but, I don't see how the Red Sox could possibly get anything less than what the Astros got (fine, draft picks, manager and GM year long suspension). From the Atheltic article, it sounds like what they did is basically the same thing as the Astros minus the trash can. Who cares if they supposedly could only use their system when a runner was on second? They still used video long after the memo came out and, importantly, after they had already been disciplined for electronic sign stealing.CFTXAG10 said:
My only fear is that Manfred may try to extinguish the flames by suspending Cora and no further punishment to the BoSox in exchange for a hush hush agreement moving forward. Meaning no ratting on NY or others from their side.
It should actually be harsher because it's strike two. The Red Sox are the reason for the 2017 edict by Manfred.
key word being: ShouldiBrad said:
It should actually be harsher because it's strike two. The Red Sox are the reason for the 2017 edict by Manfred.
Quote:
Hell, they wouldn't stay silent even if the Yankees were not involved, but since they are, the Boston media has an incentive to go all in on em. My only fear is that Manfred may try to extinguish the flames by suspending Cora and no further punishment to the BoSox in exchange for a hush hush agreement moving forward. Meaning no ratting on NY or others from their side.
Maybe from the team, but the Boston media is a different story. I'm sure some anonymous person will pass along damning info.
Scrap iron would be a very good candidate as a 1-year fill-inagproducer said:
I wonder if Phil Garner would be on the possible managerial list. He did well with the guys in the 2000s. He had good relationships with the players, and still has ties to the Astros. The question is: could he relate to today's players and ind incorporate analytics? You know the guys respect the resumes of Biggio and Baggy. I bet they'd respect Garner's too.
Besides, Garner seems to be of the mentality of the players. He's come out publicly and called Mike Fiers a "rat."
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